TimZ Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Yes, that right - SpoolieJobbie lives again! (In case you don't remember SpoolieJobbie, it was first talked about here ) When I first tried to implement this I had some serious problems finding a reliable actuation method, and the turbo that I had before was just to small to benefit from cutting its A/R in half. Since this isn't really a problem with the 1.15AR GT42R that I'm using now, I started thinking about dusting this project off. I started poking around on eBay and found that the GSX-R bike comes stock with a similar device, and it's owners often strip this off, thinking it buys them horsepower. So, I picked one of these up for cheap - as it turns out it's even setup with position feedback for use with a position controller. The setup drives a pair of push-pull cabls that control the throttle position, so the motor can be mounted remotely. I decided to actuate the throttle through a stainless flexible shaft, so the cable assembly is also isolated from the heat. A little more poking around turned up this position controller, that is capable of taking an analog input from my TEC3r and controlling the throttle position to it. And I'm off and running... Initial results are looking pretty good - the graph at the bottom clearly shows the new boost response (ignore the horsepower curve - I had to back off a bit at ~5100rpm due to wheelspin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Awesome Tim!! I had a feeling the SpoolieJobber would work out for you sooner or later. I wish I was closer to you, I'd love to take a spin with you in that monster.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Hi Tim, Great work as usual! I'm still baffled as to why this works when forcing exhaust gas to the center of the compressor as compared to hitting the fins where they would be easier to spin at the outside. I guess that's why it takes me 2 months to get afr readings in sync between the tech and handheld huh? Anyway, great work and I'm glad to see her back together and making great power! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Hi Tim, Great work as usual! I'm still baffled as to why this works when forcing exhaust gas to the center of the compressor as compared to hitting the fins where they would be easier to spin at the outside. I guess that's why it takes me 2 months to get afr readings in sync between the tech and handheld huh? Anyway, great work and I'm glad to see her back together and making great power! Joe You mean the turbine, right? Not compressor? It's so sneaky because it's so simple. It essentially cuts hit turbine size in half so the lesser amount of exhaust at lower rpm (and mostly off boost) yields a higher velocity when it hits the turbine; therefore making it spin to higher rpm for the given exhaust flow. Kudos! It's essentially a similar device to VNT, but very elegant. And that is substantial gains! The only thing that bothers me in the comparison is the fact that you make substantial more power with slightly less boost from 5,000 to 6,400 rpm. What else was changed between these two dyno sheets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Nice work. Glad you were finally able to put it to good use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 You mean the turbine, right? Not compressor?It's so sneaky because it's so simple. It essentially cuts hit turbine size in half so the lesser amount of exhaust at lower rpm (and mostly off boost) yields a higher velocity when it hits the turbine; therefore making it spin to higher rpm for the given exhaust flow. Yep. Thinking turbine and writing compressor. I know what it's doing, just don't understand why Tim's blocking the half of the charge that he's blocking. No need for further explanation as Tim tried the first time around and my old brain wasn't grasping it. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleriousZ Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 This can also be seen being put to use by the one like "chronic" on 88hyrid and z31performance.com This is on a Holset HX35 turbo. He's used it this way for the last month give or take without problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 The only thing that bothers me in the comparison is the fact that you make substantial more power with slightly less boost from 5,000 to 6,400 rpm. What else was changed between these two dyno sheets? Wheelspin. The reference was from a 4th gear pull on a dyno with no wheelspin, the "current" was from a 3rd gear pull on a less than perfect stretch of road (my usual stretch of road is under construction). That's why mentioned to ignore the hp and torque numbers. I should have been clearer on that - for now I was just trying to show the boost/RPM relationship for before and after. Joe - it doesn't matter which half I block off, so long as I block one of them off. My 1.15AR split turbine housing is essentially a pair of .575AR scrolls that act on the same turbine wheel. If I block one of the scrolls off, it turns the turbine housing into a .575AR housing for better spool (think of putting your thumb over the end of a hose). Then as I start making power, I can open the SpoolieJobbie back up and get the full 1.15 AR. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerAce Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Tagging this for more reading when I'm on a decent internet connect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I think I got it now. You really aren't trying to direct the gasses at a particular spot on the turbine, only speeding up the gasses by forcing then through a smaller space? Makes perfect sense now:mrgreen: Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Sound performance has had very good luck with this setup on the supras. Very cool Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 I think I got it now. You really aren't trying to direct the gasses at a particular spot on the turbine, only speeding up the gasses by forcing then through a smaller space? Makes perfect sense now:mrgreen: Joe Yeppo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleriousZ Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I think I got it now. You really aren't trying to direct the gasses at a particular spot on the turbine, only speeding up the gasses by forcing then through a smaller space? Makes perfect sense now:mrgreen: Joe Also, if he uses a true 'twin scroll' turbine, the efficiency of the spool valve will increase even further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerAce Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 So (after reading, finally), any idea what the longevity of the SJ is going to be? It seems to my (completely thermodynamically uneducated mind) that this setup would seize up within a couple thousand miles, since I'm not seeing any way to cool it or anything. Also, you probably already tried this, but would it be possible to control the opening of the SJ like an internal wastegate? ie: as boost builds, it slowly opens up for the second scroll? This thread gives my ideas for a non Z V8TT project I'd like to do sometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Tim, How's James T. these days, he hasn't been around in a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 So (after reading, finally), any idea what the longevity of the SJ is going to be? It seems to my (completely thermodynamically uneducated mind) that this setup would seize up within a couple thousand miles, since I'm not seeing any way to cool it or anything. Also, you probably already tried this, but would it be possible to control the opening of the SJ like an internal wastegate? ie: as boost builds, it slowly opens up for the second scroll? This thread gives my ideas for a non Z V8TT project I'd like to do sometime The throttle plate, shaft and bushings are all made from HastelloyX, an Inconel-like alloy with higher temperature ratings, so hopefully it should hold up. We went through the thermal expansion numbers to (hopefully) make sure that nothing would seize up. Also, since I'm running E85 there isn't much in the way of exhaust residue to crap things up. The position controller that I'm using allows me to command the throttle position in ~200 steps, commanded by the TEC3r's GPO table, so I'm only limited by the speed that the motor can open and close the valve. What you described is pretty much exactly how I'm controlling it. I haven't heard from James in a while - I think he's been pretty busy with life in general lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerAce Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 The throttle plate, shaft and bushings are all made from HastelloyX, an Inconel-like alloy with higher temperature ratings, so hopefully it should hold up. We went through the thermal expansion numbers to (hopefully) make sure that nothing would seize up. Also, since I'm running E85 there isn't much in the way of exhaust residue to crap things up. The position controller that I'm using allows me to command the throttle position in ~200 steps, commanded by the TEC3r's GPO table, so I'm only limited by the speed that the motor can open and close the valve. What you described is pretty much exactly how I'm controlling it. Cool. You basically sold me on this concept for my other project And any idea why the bikers think this robs power? Or is it one of those internet legends that aren't necessarily true, but everyone believes it anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 And any idea why the bikers think this robs power? Or is it one of those internet legends that aren't necessarily true, but everyone believes it anyways? That would be my guess - it's a naturally aspirated engine and I think they use it to increase backpressure at low rpm for better response. Maybe they don't like the opening points or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooler Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 That would be my guess - it's a naturally aspirated engine and I think they use it to increase backpressure at low rpm for better response. Maybe they don't like the opening points or something? That is exactly what they used it for. The bike I used to own had one. It was a Honda CBR 954RR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Someone showed his version at the supra forums but his actuator bracket seems to be too short for my liking and could transfer a bit too much heat to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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