300zx LS1 conversion

hey..got a question..i have just spun a rod bearing in my VG and wondering about how much it would cost me to do an LS1 conversion...any numbers and help would be greatly appriciated..thanks.

~Galen

[JMT-Z]

All of the swaps in the 300zx are custom so costs vary widely. If you are having someone else do it I would say you will be up over $10k in no time.

[SHIFTz]

Not trying to rag on your idea, but I would drop the ls1 idea. I spun a bearing just like you and considered it for awhile. The thing is that its not easy at all in a z32. The engine bays make it very very hard, mostly due to the steering rack being located right in the middle of the engine bay. Ive helped with swaps in 240z's and rx7s and even those with big engine compartments were a bit of work. The z32 is just not a good choice for an ls1 swap. It is possible, but its not the deal of using gto oil pans with this and that like you do in other cars. Its all custom work. If you are set on and ls1 motor, I would choose a different car, but if you are set on the z32 chasis, then I would look into rb series swaps.

[dts300z]

Originally Posted by SHIFTz

Not trying to rag on your idea, but I would drop the ls1 idea. I spun a bearing just like you and considered it for awhile. The thing is that its not easy at all in a z32. The engine bays make it very very hard, mostly due to the steering rack being located right in the middle of the engine bay. Ive helped with swaps in 240z's and rx7s and even those with big engine compartments were a bit of work. The z32 is just not a good choice for an ls1 swap. It is possible, but its not the deal of using gto oil pans with this and that like you do in other cars. Its all custom work. If you are set on and ls1 motor, I would choose a different car, but if you are set on the z32 chasis, then I would look into rb series swaps.

Not trying to be rude but have you done a LS1 conversion in a Z32?

[dts300z]

Originally Posted by gmprojectz

hey..got a question..i have just spun a rod bearing in my VG and wondering about how much it would cost me to do an LS1 conversion...any numbers and help would be greatly appriciated..thanks.

~Galen

gmprojectz, I don't personally have experience with an LS1 swap into a Z32 but there are a few threads on this site that maybe of help to you. I would suggest finding the few that have done the swap and ask them what it entails and what they would do different now that they have finished.

BRAAP is working on test fitting several engines in the Z32 and has documented the areas of conflict if any http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=142025. I would read through this thread to get you started. I know there are a few guys that have done the swap just look around and I'm sure they would be helpful to you in your choice.

Now if you want to drop an LT1 in that thing I've got a build thread going with some ok info. I'm sure you can get it done without too much heart ache but you will have to get creative if you choose to keep A/C and heat but I assure you it CAN be done.

Good luck!!

[SHIFTz]

Nope never tried it, just gave you what I have heard from others who have. Just some info I have been told, you can take it or leave it, but dont hold me to it since I dont know first hand.

Another thought I had was that once you complete the swap, say its not fast enough, the Z32 engine bay doesnt leave you much room for any turbo/supercharger setup. It would be very tight. The only easy option that I would see is a nitrous setup.

And just to add a little info to give some truth to my earlier post, I found this in the tread you posted

Stabbed the 5.3 LM7 into the engine bay of the Z-32 V-8 mock up mule.
Short story is that it fits just a terribly as a traditional SBC! Even tried it with a T-56 bell housing on the block, couldn't get it in the car with the bell housing attached!

1) 5.3 motor mounts lined perfectly up with the Z-32 mount pads on the cross member, puts the bell housing approx 1” off the firewall.

2) Engine is sitting on the oil pan, on the rack and pinion.

3) Engine needs to drop down approx 2-3” from this elevation, meaning a cut out in the mid section of the pan to drop the engine.

4) Sump is currently 2” below the cross member, which means the sump would need to be shortened approx 4”!

5) The F-body sump runs too far forward and would need to be cut way back, ending up like the truck pan once it was modified, shallow and not much sump left. 6 one, half dozen the other I guess.

6) The GTO front sump pan might work, again after being modified to allow the engine to sit lower, and if the cross member was left alone, would move the engine forward approx 6-7 inches! If the cross member was modified such as another member did for his Z-32, the engine would only need to be moved forward approx 4-5 inches, (I think he did it to clear the front sump of the SR20, but ended up going Turbo LT1 instead and kept the modified cross member). At any rate, The damper would be close to flush with the front core support. Radiator mounting location will take some savvy strategery, and then having the engine that far forward?...

7) With the bell housing mating surface flush with the firewall, the T-56 shifter will need a 2” dog leg to come out in the OE location. In its current position as pictured, it will need approx a 3” dog leg. In using the front sump pan, it will need?... and end up with more of an up and down motion rather than fore and aft. Unless some form of extended remote shifter can be fabricated like the Z-32 uses currently?

8) Dropping the cross member to gain some clearance and set the engine at the correct elevation looks ideal on the surface, but doing so also affects the front suspension geometry, especially when wanting to drop the cross member 2”! Would stir up all kinds of geometry issues…


Friggin rack and pinion is too darn high and too far rearward in the engine bay making the Z-32 not so Hybrid friendly… ARRGHHH… Having now stabbed an L-26, a traditional SBC, and now a Gen III 5.3 in the engine bay of a Z-32, for those willing to gut out under the dash, possibly loosing some of the OE climate control ducting, etc, cutting the firewall is hands down the best alternative from many perspectives. This stubborn Zed Head is dead set on NOT cutting the firewall, even if that means installing the brides-maid instead of the Bride!....

Im not trying to tell you not to do the swap, but I spent some serious money on my z32 after I spun the bearing and am looking back and thinking I made the wrong decision. Its a great looking body, but the space available doesnt leave you with many options as well as an ease of working on it. I just decided to build up a vg motor, but now I am realizing that money was not well spent. The VG is a great motor, but a pain to work on. The whole motor has to come out to replace/work on the turbos. There is no room to do anything quickly. A different chasis and different motor would have been much easier to work on, saving me time and headache, as well as yielding the same results. There seems to be a reason why the Z32 section of this site has little activity.

[dts300z]

Originally Posted by SHIFTz

Nope never tried it, just gave you what I have heard from others who have. Just some info I have been told, you can take it or leave it, but dont hold me to it since I dont know first hand.

Another thought I had was that once you complete the swap, say its not fast enough, the Z32 engine bay doesnt leave you much room for any turbo/supercharger setup. It would be very tight. The only easy option that I would see is a nitrous setup.

And just to add a little info to give some truth to my earlier post, I found this in the tread you posted



Im not trying to tell you not to do the swap, but I spent some serious money on my z32 after I spun the bearing and am looking back and thinking I made the wrong decision. Its a great looking body, but the space available doesnt leave you with many options as well as an ease of working on it. I just decided to build up a vg motor, but now I am realizing that money was not well spent. The VG is a great motor, but a pain to work on. The whole motor has to come out to replace/work on the turbos. There is no room to do anything quickly. A different chasis and different motor would have been much easier to work on, saving me time and headache, as well as yielding the same results. There seems to be a reason why the Z32 section of this site has little activity.

On the other hand I have done the swap with an LT1 successfully click the link in my sig that says build thread. It is also turbocharged. Granted it does not run since I'm still rebuilding the engine but it will soon. I initially did this swap back in 2003 with an LT1 without modding the firewall. This time around same car after I took out the sr20det I modified the firewall and trans tunnel to make more room in front of the engine and for better weight distribution.

FYI the thread you quoted was not by me. I'm pretty sure that is someone else on this board that is working through the details of the swap.

You said the engine bay would be tight with an LS1 . This is an LT1 but it is close enough size wise and there is plenty of room.




I'm not trying to give you a hard time but most of the people that come on this site are looking for a positive push.

Ohhh and finally don't listen to people that say listen to people that do...

[SHIFTz]

Alright well just keep us updated on your project gmprojectz. I would like to see how it turns out. I have always wanted to complete a ls1 into a z32, but decided against it for the reasons I posted above. Make sure to take lots of pics

[BRAAP]

Last night I mocked up the LS1 with a T-56 attached, in the lowest possible position, (oil pan removed) and as far back as possible in my Z-32 mock up mule. Trans crammed up tight touching the trans tunnel, crank windage tray a mere 3/4" off the rack itself! Some amount of modification will need to be done to the car itself to get an LSx in the engine bay. Whether it be modify the hood to clear the throttle body, lower the rack to get the engine lower, or cut out enough clearance in the firewall/trans tunnel entrance to get the whole engine/trans further back in the car, either way, something HAS to be modified on the Z-32 for the LSX to fit. Firewall mod makes the most sense and cures all the issues in one mod, but that entails opening up a huge can of worms for us who want to keep the interior of the car and all its functions under the dash! Still investigating alternative options to cutting the firewall.

More details and pics in the link below, post #66;
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread...=142025&page=4

[dts300z]

^^^^and thats the man to listen too ^^^^

[meindaparish]

not to dig this up again, but Im all mocked up, and Im not having ANY of these issues with my build. All Im doing to gain ample clearance in all directions is taking out the heater core, soldering some extensions, and cutting new holes closer to the battery tray. Its not that hard, only as complicated as soldering copper and taking the dash apart. This lets me move the engine far enough back to clear the hump in the F body oil pan, and with using fbody headers, the steering shaft is fine. Also, the engine is low enough to not notch the hood. Using 5.3 truck mounts notched and welded a plate, all I need to do is box in about 1 inch and weld another plate to the bottom and ill be fine.

[meindaparish]

Ill take alot of pics tomorrow to show everyone what I mean. BTW Im using a world class t5, and i really think more people should look into them. You can build them to hold 600 hp for fairly cheap, and they are TINY.

[BRAAP]

Originally Posted by meindaparish

not to dig this up again, but Im all mocked up, and Im not having ANY of these issues with my build. All Im doing to gain ample clearance in all directions is taking out the heater core, soldering some extensions, and cutting new holes closer to the battery tray. Its not that hard, only as complicated as soldering copper and taking the dash apart. This lets me move the engine far enough back to clear the hump in the F body oil pan, and with using fbody headers, the steering shaft is fine. Also, the engine is low enough to not notch the hood. Using 5.3 truck mounts notched and welded a plate, all I need to do is box in about 1 inch and weld another plate to the bottom and ill be fine.

So the ONLY mod to get your LSx in the car, without cutting the firewall, notching the oil pan, lowering the rack, or cutting the hood, is merely relocating the heater penetrations through the firewall? I'll be honest, I'm struggling to see that, without at least lowering the rack and/or modifying the oil pan etc, even with the T-5 trans/bell-housing.
I pray that I am wrong and this turns out to be just that easy.


Looking forward to seeing your pics with transmission, intake, and oil pan attached.

[meindaparish]

Well, technically the motor is not bolted in yet, lol. But, I had it in the exact position that it will be in when it will be bolted down (hopefully in a few days) and it(exhaust) cleared the steering shaft, the oil pan was about 1/2 inch away from the steering rack, too. The t5 and bellhousing slopes dramatically faster downward than a t56, and leads to a much physically lower point. Thus allowing me to get the engine VERY close to the fire wall, clearing the dip in the oil pan. I dont wanna jynx anything yet, but things look good. Ill keep updating ASAP.

[BRAAP]

In looking at this a little closer I’m seeing the T-5 bell-housing as having more issue than the T-56 bell-housing, requiring the engine to be set even further forward, creating more clearance issues between the oil pan, rack, and hood. Again, I may be wrong and I hope that I am, but I’m struggling to see it working out that easy.

The LSx T-56 bell-housing starts its downward slope earlier than the T-5 bell-housing, which is where the T-5 bell housing is going to crash into the firewall. The T-5 one piece bell housing is approx the same length as the T-56 two piece design, not even an 1” difference, as depicted by the green lines in the pics below. The T-5 bell-housing goes rearward at the top before it drops down which is exactly how I recall my SBC V-8 W/C T-5 bell housing in my first V-8 Z car. (LOVE that trans for mild V-8’s). The W/C T-5 with GM V-8 bell-housing will bolt up directly up to the LSX engine, same bolt hole pattern etc, sans one hole that is not available in the block. Issue in being able to use it that way is the input shaft is just a wee bit short in engaging the pilot bushing/bearing in the crankshaft of the LSx, (LSx crankshaft does not protrude out of the rear of the block as far as the traditional SBC).

That T-56 pictured above is a T-56, but definitely not for an LSx or SBC. Gear shift lever is too far forward and bell-housing is NOT GM. Maybe Mopar Hemi/Viper, Ford, BOP?

Below is a GM T-56. The GREEN lines represent the bell housings-to-gear box distance, T-5 and T-56 are approx the same distance here. Baby BLUE line represents the T-5 bell housing and start of the gear box. The MAGENTA lines represent the Z-32 firewall, tunnel entrance, and tunnel. RED represents the stock Z-32 shifter location. This is with rack lowered ¾” to clear the spinning crankshaft and ½ oilpan-rack clearance with a modified oil pan that has only 1/8” clearance to the crank windage tray. The T-5 being a shorter height gear box will allow the engine to sit higher, but I see the bell-housing clashing with the firewall forcing that forward further crowding the TB into the hood and creating more issues with shifter location.






To get a true accurate representation of how much clearance, or lack of, you rally have, you need to mock up the whole assy together, block, oil pan, and trans all together. Did you get the GM V-8 bell-housing with your T-5? If so, bolt it on the trans and bolt the T5 up to your LSx, add your oil pan AND intake with TB and test fit. I have a strong feeling things will change.

[hughdogz]

Hi BRAAP, it might be interesting to bounce some ideas off Johnny at Johnny Z Motorsport in Salem.

He was at the last Northwestz meeting, and he said he's done quite a few of the LSx swaps (LS1, LS6, LT1 etc) in a Z32.

His shop is very near to Ztherapy, and he's open 7 days a week (503)400-0790.

Hope this helped...

[BRAAP]

Originally Posted by hughdogz

Hi BRAAP, it might be interesting to bounce some ideas off Johnny at Johnny Z Motorsport in Salem.

He was at the last Northwestz meeting, and he said he's done quite a few of the LSx swaps (LS1, LS6, LT1 etc) in a Z32.

His shop is very near to Ztherapy, and he's open 7 days a week (503)400-0790.

Hope this helped...

Interesting. Being essentially neighbor, I wonder how come we haven't heard of this before? Hmmm... Might have to drop by his shop...
Giving him a call now.

[hoov100]

could you reshape the top of the bell housing? or you could always go aftermarket. I dont think you should toss out the idea of a tubular x-member though, as it would solve almost every problem and wouldnt take nothing but a couple days to design and build.

[BRAAP]

Originally Posted by hughdogz

Hi BRAAP, it might be interesting to bounce some ideas off Johnny at Johnny Z Motorsport in Salem.

He was at the last Northwestz meeting, and he said he's done quite a few of the LSx swaps (LS1, LS6, LT1 etc) in a Z32.

His shop is very near to Ztherapy, and he's open 7 days a week (503)400-0790.

Hope this helped...

Thanks for the contact Hugh.
Just got off the phone with Johnny. New shop, came from WA, (explains why we haven’t heard of him before). Really nice guy, enjoyed talking with him.

We discussed a little about the V-8 Z-32 project he was involved in while working at the other shop in WA. We didn’t cover exactly which engine it was, the trans was an early 6 speed. He said the project was under a time constraint so they didn’t have the luxury of being able to do tons of R&D. Their solution to getting the engine in the car, under the hood without cutting the firewall, was a custom fabbed cross member that relocated the rack to make everything clear, (lowered the rack). We discussed the problem clearance areas at the firewall and tunnel entrance and he confirmed all the same points I found that need just a touch of BFH persuasion. He didn’t have any specifics such as how much the rack location was changed, but did recall they also ordered special outer tie rod ends, no other info as to why that was. He also mentioned they had a custom oil pan fabbed from scratch by a shop in WA as well. He was real pleased with final outcome and said the customer was also quite pleased.

Thanks again Hugh,

Paul

[hughdogz]

Awesome! I may have misunderstood him when he said he did quite a few...I remember him going into details about the modded oil pan.

Originally Posted by BRAAP

Thanks for the contact Hugh.
Just got off the phone with Johnny. New shop, came from WA, (explains why we haven’t heard of him before). Really nice guy, enjoyed talking with him.
....

I guess we know the answer now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jaWPQ3Z7FE