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joa_taste

sr20 question

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Hey im pretty new here to the forums but i've always liked the way the old datsuns looked

Interested in the sr20 swap in my 240z

just wondering is there any fabrication needed for the gas tank since im going from carb to fuel injected?

 

Thanx

 

is there a direct link to someones build so i can just look at what they did so i won't have any dumb questions in the future hahah thanks

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Nope. The early Z's had a rear mounted external low pressure electric fuel pump, in addition to the engine mounted mechanical fuel pump (to avoid vapor lock). What may be an issue is the small diameter of the fuel lines, and putting a larger electric fuel pump with the old wiring. There will be a lot more issue than just the fuel system though...If you have the coin, I'd say take your car to Vildini Motorsports & have them do it all for you, as that's what they specialize in (SR swapped Z's). McKinney Motorsports also has most of the items (engine cradle/mounts, transmission mount) needed to do this swap. Other issues will be engine wiring, gauges, cutting the driveshaft to fit, exhaust, intercooler/piping, gearing, possibly needing to reinforce the chassis...a lot more entailed than you may think, if you'd never done a swap like this before. There's a lot more work involved than swapping it into a 240SX!

 

I'm accumulating all the stuff to swap my S13 blacktop into my '78 280Z. I'm already at $4K without any exhaust, fuel system, wiring, and cooling system mods. I've got a nice SR with harness & trans, slightly better turbo, header, better intake manifold, clutch setup, custom tuned ECU, Z32 mafs, intercooler & piping, driveshaft, mounts. I'm going to replace my floor pans & frame rails prior to doing the swap, so I don't have to mess with it in the future, or have any chassis issues. I'll also be swapping my 3.54 R200 for a 4.10 R200, as the stock rear end gearing on an SR-equipped 5-speed car is 4.08, and I want to get the most from my setup. One buddy on here ran his old R180 with 3.37 gears with his SR swap, and it was WAY too little gear for the SR...got great mileage, but took forever to shift. My brother has 3.70 gears with his SR swapped ZX, which is slightly better, but still not right.

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Thank you for the fast reply

4000 with all the work done yourself or is that with someone elses labor included?

even if that's without labor it's so much better than a 1jz swap in an sc300 lol, you know how much i was quoted for that swap into my sc300

im looking at doing a str8 bone stock sr redtop from my buddies garage in vegas

I knew new lines was going to be called for with a walbro but wasn't sure on the tank.

not too much fabrication is needed on this after you get those mckinney mounts?

i can't really find a thread to see what's needed for this

im just debating on selling the sc300 and spend the money i get for the swap since i already have a 240z shell

thanks again

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$4k is what I have ONLY into parts at this point. Anyone can lie & tell you it can be done for less, and it can...but you get what you pay for. The 1JZ swap into an SC300 is MUCH easier & straightforward by far! The hardest part of that is getting your harness modded.

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true but a 1jz complete with a r154 (5 speed tranny) is already about 2900 you might as well add another 500 for shipping then when you get it in your hands your replacing things that should be replaced since it's out...i figured this swap would be lighter on the pockets since like i said stock red top is what im looking at doing the wiring i heard (or read was pretty easy also right?) i know im making it sound like its a plug n play swap, but i know it's not

 

I called the motorsports shop and it's 7500 for the full swap, and 4200 if you bring your own sr20 that seems pretty expensive to me

i have another question what did you do for driveshaft?

Edited by joa_taste

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I got one shortened. That's all that was required. You'll spend more than $1500 alone for mounts, intercooler, piping, hoses, custom driveshaft, not including your motorset. Mechanic labor rates aren't cheap, neither is the experience in the swap that you'd be paying for to have a turn-key, ready to run car. Yeah, the biggest reason I'm doing it myself is cost as well. I could care less about the experience...I've been rebuilding engines & such for over 20 years, due to some questionably reliable cars in my past.

 

Here's some hard math for you...(for reference use only)

 

http://mckinneymotorsports.com/prod_240+260+280Z+parts

 

$449.99 gets you McKinney's SR mount kit (w/o shipping)

$425 for their custom driveshaft (ouch!)

$290 for their downpipe

$129.99 for their throttle cable

$550 for their 3" exhaust

$750 for their radiator setup

 

It adds up quick...and that's without intercooler & piping, any wiring, making your gauges interface, etc. Sure, you can cut some corners by having a local shop make your exhaust & cut your driveshaft, use a 240SX throttle cable (with a little work), modify an ebay downpipe, etc. If you want a hybridz, get good at making your own parts, or save up about 2-3x more than you initially think you're going to spend...that's just the nature of the beast!

 

And here's someone else's project build, for reference...he's also on here (hope you don't mind!)

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/20316-240z-sr20-build/

Edited by Matt K

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That's my build, so PM me if you have any questions regarding... I'm a few weeks from being road worthy if I'm lucky. But, I still have a ton more to do to get where I want upgrade wise.

 

There are a lot of ways to save money, most by doing it yourself, but there is a heck of a lot of research out there to do to pull it off nicely. Also, if you only want to remain at stock SR20DET hp, there isn't much to do, but it's a heck of a lot easier building up things for later now that doing it later when it's all in. I did a lot of stuff I wanted to do for the heck of it and to clean things up visually that you don't have to do, but it's sure nice to have the battery under the back, with a nice shaved outside and a really clean engine bay.

 

If you want to run more than stock HP someday, I'd look at the fuel situation and at least run better lines and a surge tank off the main (There are a ton of threads that talk about that setup). I found it cleaner and easier to just cut the rear out, lay in a cell, and have at it with new lines and fun. It was easy enough and will get me to 400 easy if I ever want to go there.

 

The things you don't think of are endless - Radiators and Fans, Controller for Fans, FMIC, FMIC piping and the custom work there, Mounts, Shaft, Throttle Cable Mods, Rear Diff for the future. Plus, almost any SR20 should be redone with new seals, new hoses, and a good run through...

 

 

This is my favorite thread in that regard:

 

http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sr20det-engines/107130-my-s13-sr20det-prep.html

 

If you want the car to look pretty as well, heck, it's a whole bunch more money too.

 

Just slapping in a SR20 and doing the bare minimum is possible though and cheaper, but 5k seems like a decent and reasonable estimate for the basics.

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Thank you so much guys coming from the supraforums when i had a mk3 to the clublexus forums when since i have a sc now

you guys are sooo much willing to help without typing the newb button ill check out your thread when i've got more time later and see what you did so i can see what ball park ill be in

Only reason i am very interested in the swap is because i bought a cheap 240z for 600 and i know someone selling their full motorset redtop cheap also

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That's my build, so PM me if you have any questions regarding... I'm a few weeks from being road worthy if I'm lucky. But, I still have a ton more to do to get where I want upgrade wise.

 

There are a lot of ways to save money, most by doing it yourself, but there is a heck of a lot of research out there to do to pull it off nicely. Also, if you only want to remain at stock SR20DET hp, there isn't much to do, but it's a heck of a lot easier building up things for later now that doing it later when it's all in. I did a lot of stuff I wanted to do for the heck of it and to clean things up visually that you don't have to do, but it's sure nice to have the battery under the back, with a nice shaved outside and a really clean engine bay.

 

If you want to run more than stock HP someday, I'd look at the fuel situation and at least run better lines and a surge tank off the main (There are a ton of threads that talk about that setup). I found it cleaner and easier to just cut the rear out, lay in a cell, and have at it with new lines and fun. It was easy enough and will get me to 400 easy if I ever want to go there.

 

The things you don't think of are endless - Radiators and Fans, Controller for Fans, FMIC, FMIC piping and the custom work there, Mounts, Shaft, Throttle Cable Mods, Rear Diff for the future. Plus, almost any SR20 should be redone with new seals, new hoses, and a good run through...

 

 

This is my favorite thread in that regard:

 

http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sr20det-engines/107130-my-s13-sr20det-prep.html

 

If you want the car to look pretty as well, heck, it's a whole bunch more money too.

 

Just slapping in a SR20 and doing the bare minimum is possible though and cheaper, but 5k seems like a decent and reasonable estimate for the basics.

 

 

Hmmm i looked at your thread and lemme tell you seems like a little more work than i planned, but it seems heck of a lot worth it..

btw i hope you went with the diamond racing wheels...that's a great look 4000 to 5000 seems okay ill price it and keep my options open

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Yep... The wheels should be ready to be shipped this week or next. I have the tires already. The door window frames and c pillar window frames, as well as the door handles are at the powder coater and should be ready next week too. This weekend the hood goes back on, and hopefully the front Xenon lip, but it's up to my friend's schedule to see if he can paint them on time.

 

Then it's to an exhaust shop, as I need a 3 inch fabbed from the turbo elbow back and then I'll be at least road worthy. Then it's 1-2k in suspension mods after that to be where I want it on the outside, plus tint, touch up paint work and interior work to be done. It's not been THAT expensive, but it adds up. I spread it out over years, so it's much easier to stomach piece by piece.

 

There are so many threads on this conversion out there, especially in the Ratsun forums as well, as 510 guys have had a good time with these swaps too, so the search is your friend...

 

 

 

 

 

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I got one shortened. That's all that was required. You'll spend more than $1500 alone for mounts, intercooler, piping, hoses, custom driveshaft, not including your motorset. Mechanic labor rates aren't cheap, neither is the experience in the swap that you'd be paying for to have a turn-key, ready to run car. Yeah, the biggest reason I'm doing it myself is cost as well. I could care less about the experience...I've been rebuilding engines & such for over 20 years, due to some questionably reliable cars in my past.

 

Here's some hard math for you...(for reference use only)

 

http://mckinneymotorsports.com/prod_240+260+280Z+parts

 

$449.99 gets you McKinney's SR mount kit (w/o shipping)

$425 for their custom driveshaft (ouch!)

$290 for their downpipe

$129.99 for their throttle cable

$550 for their 3" exhaust

$750 for their radiator setup

 

It adds up quick...and that's without intercooler & piping, any wiring, making your gauges interface, etc. Sure, you can cut some corners by having a local shop make your exhaust & cut your driveshaft, use a 240SX throttle cable (with a little work), modify an ebay downpipe, etc. If you want a hybridz, get good at making your own parts, or save up about 2-3x more than you initially think you're going to spend...that's just the nature of the beast!

 

And here's someone else's project build, for reference...he's also on here (hope you don't mind!)

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/20316-240z-sr20-build/

 

 

This is extremely exaggerating the price. Most shops will shorten a driveshaft for about 75 bucks, You can easily use a 40 dollar throttle lokar cable. 750?? for a radiator setup? I have a griffin aluminum radiator in my car with NO fans for around 300 bucks. Running no fans, I have yet to ever see a single degree higher than 180.

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Yes, I didn't pay that much for my stuff either, however that IS what that particular vendor wants for those items...click the link to see for yourself. I see no reason to even swap my radiator at this point as it's working fine in the New Mexico heat, but again, this is why a shop charges as much as it does to do a swap like this...in house labor rates & full retail on parts. I gave suggestions as to how to save some money on this swap above. Here's what I'm sitting at so far...

 

S13 Blacktop (removed from running 240SX) $1700

 

Used Vildini engine cradle, trans mount, custom driveshaft, intercooler & piping (all removed from SR swapped car) $500

 

Exedy clutch (Zilvia) $100

 

Z32 mafs (Zilvia) $75

 

Apexi dual chamber BOV with pipe (Zilvia) $60

 

Enthalpy ECU (paid $125 for used one from Zilvia, another $150 to get retuned for my combination) $375

 

Twin 10" electric fans FREE from a buddy (new)

 

Megan tubular exhaust manifold & outlet pipe (Zilvia) $75

 

S14 turbo & stainless lines (buddy) $250

 

Greddy clone intake manifold (buddy) $80 new

 

RB20DET speed sensor (to utilize the factory cable speedometer) $40

 

SUBTOTAL $3255

 

 

I have a few extra SR parts that came off the motor swap that I'm selling to get some money back as well (stock turbo, manifolds, turbo lines, power steering equipment)

 

 

I still need to order my Walbro kit ~$100

 

Considering having Wiring Specialties modify my harnesses to be plug & play, so I don't have to worry about screwing something up ($300)

 

Have Speedhut build me a tach to interface with the SR signal ~$150

 

replace 3.54 R200 with 3.90 or 4.10 geared R200 ~$150

 

Install OBX rear LSD unit for added traction ~$450 for parts & labor

 

Replace engine hoses to longer ones, thermostatic fan relay for cooling fans, upgraded fuel pump wiring & relay, and items I may not foresee but will need, misc parts, etc. ~$250

 

The big deal breaker that has my project on hold is I want to replace my floor pans & frame rails with Bad Dog Racing stuff...prior to swapping in the SR. I have some poorly patched pans that weren't treated after having new metal welded in by the previous owner, and one of my frame rails has a hole in it...so rather than do patchwork, I want to replace it all. I also acquired a set of 850cc Sard injectors in rail (only 1500 miles), from a buddy who parted out his race motor. These will go in at a later date, along with a .64 AR 2871R turbo, ARP head studs, 1.2mm metal head gasket, and some mild cams. I'm not in a hurry to do that though, I want to get everything installed & worked out prior to upgrading the motor to my end goal HP level.

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This is extremely exaggerating the price. Most shops will shorten a driveshaft for about 75 bucks, You can easily use a 40 dollar throttle lokar cable. 750?? for a radiator setup? I have a griffin aluminum radiator in my car with NO fans for around 300 bucks. Running no fans, I have yet to ever see a single degree higher than 180.

 

 

I agree that the price there is crazy... no way I was paying that much for most of that. I used a standard cheap cable of off ebay and it doesn't "look" as good as the mc setup, but it works perfect. I'm also using a cheap aluminum radiator with no problems, but can't imagine running with no fans... I overheated without fans working just idling (as I was troubleshooting the fan controller), and can't imaging getting stuck in traffic and having that happen. The fan I'm running is cheap as all getup on ebay and runs more air then you could ever need.

 

I think you'll end up with more costs that just come up as you are playing, but you're in the right ballpark. I still think you'll end at 4-5, but you have saved some significant monies with getting the whole deal for FMIC, piping, and such all in one package and cheap.

 

I blew money on powdercoating and fuel setup that just was more aesthetic than anything, but I was also watching Blakt Out's thread and he just kept inspiring me to try to do some of his really awesome looking stuff on the cheap. His AMAZING thread is here, but it's what happens when you spend an near unlimited amount of money and have most, if not everything done by a really amazing shop

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/74214-full-on-resto-mod-of-a-240z/

 

I've also seen some really bare minimum swaps and they look like they could have been on the cheap as well. I'd still spend some money on that SR20 just to refresh it and clean it up before you drop it in... as well as on the bay while it's empty to clean it up, maybe shave some holes that you wont use and make things pretty when you surely show it off!

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Yeah dudes price up above was crazy im not a name brand guy if it works it works greddy or godspeed lol which ever is cheap and effective

 

Some people say there is cheap, reliable, and fast you can only pick 2

Ive always gone for 2.5 lol

 

This swap seems like a normal swap other than the easy wiring diagnostics, seems like fun I cant wait to get started

Might have to get a build thread soon

I wouldnt know what color to powdercoat my engine bay because im not sure which color I want to go

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I read through most of this and it seems like they guys have your questions answered. But the SR in you Z will be awesome. I promise you that much. The power to weight ratio is just kick ass and you'll pull on most cars on the road.

 

I just had my gas tank pressure tested to make sure it could hold the PSI and after that I had a Walboro 255lph pump installed but I'm not a fan. The pump died on my in about 6 months. I ended up getting a Aeromotive 700.. but that isn't what I'd recommend for a "stock SR" setup. I'd look into the Bosch 044 or see if they make the new Aeromotive 340lph as a in-line pump.

 

Also as far as motor mounts, I bought the McKinny mounts and I'd say they are decent AT BEST. The "hockey puck" mounts didn't even sit flush on both sides. One side the mounts sat flush, on the other side it was a bit off kilter and wedged more on one side. Vildini seems to have their stuff together and I really love their stuff. I'd explore that avenue first if I could go back and redo things.

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Yeah one of the guys on here has helped me out alot. I'm only in the beginning stages of swapping the sr20 in, still haven't gotten one yet but i have a sale pending in the zilvia forums..

I dropped my fuel tank from the 260z and im putting a 280z tank and surge tank...I've been looking at the walbro pump i heard the 255 is good, but i don't want it to crap out on me in only the beginning stages of my car being swapped. That would suck so you recommend the aeromotive 700 than?

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That would suck so you recommend the aeromotive 700 than?

 

Sorry if I confused you there. What I was saying was that I personally felt that the walboro SUCKED. I went through 2 of them. One in-tank (on my silvia) and one in-line (on my Z). I think the Aeromotive 700 for you would be OVERKILL. I would look into theses fuel pumps:

 

Bosch 044 (300 lph)

 

http://highflowfuel.com/i-4791020-bosch-044-300lph-inline-pump-includes-an-fittings-of-choice.html

 

Aeromotive - I seatched for their 340lph and they only sell it in-tank at the moment.. so it wouldn't work for you. They do sell a smaller in-line pump but it's only 200 lph which I wouldn't recommend.

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Damn thats soo expensive though for fuel management ,the aeromotive, the boach isnt too bad did u end up with a surge tank also?

 

I had a custom gas tank built. I took the stock 240z gas tank and cut out the center bottom part of the tank. Had a baffel made from perforated steel and then had a sump installed with 2 -6 AN fitting bungs. So when I accelarate out of the corners I'm able to pick up fuel. I had that problem before I modified the tank. I highly recommend doing something about the stock tank if you plan on doing any track events or spirited driving.

 

You best bet though, to save serious cash, would be to look for a 280zx gas tank and just have custom -AN fittings put on.

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Ive actually been looking into fuel cells, the 280z one I bought looks a little sketchy and keeping in mind these tank are about 40 years old

 

With the fuel cell itll just be

Cell to walbro pump to rail then return

 

With surge tank

Oem tank to low pressure pump to surge tank to walbro to rail, then return

 

So im really leaning toward cell, I hate the fact itll be in car but maybe ill tamper with the spare well...maybe

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Most of the time when the guys do a fuel cell they cut out the spare tire well to make room. I really didn't want to do that because I wanted to keep the stock tank and fill the gas from the stock location. If you get the tank boiled out and pressure tested you'll be all good. They'll coat the inside as well so it'll be good as new. Shouldn't cost you anymore than 180 to do that.

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The cheapest route would be to use a stock 280z tank. Look for local radiator shops and call them to see if they have tanks big enough to boil out your gas tank. San Jose is pretty big and I was only able to find 3 local shops. I'd assume they are far and few?

 

If you trust the tank you have then there's no need to worry.

 

I had my tank boiled out so I could modify my 240z tank. That way it wouldn't blow up on me when we welded it. Then I took it back to the radiator shop and he pressure checked the tank to make sure there weren't any leaks. After that was verified he coated the inside with a special coating (not sure what it was exactly but it felt like a jelly solution) to seal everything up nicely.

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