Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:55 AM
More to come soon...gotta concentrate on school work for a bit then I'll be back at it.
Thinking of adding some pics of using the notcher itself to hopefully eliminate confusion of cutting wrong angles or cutting the bars too short from making an improper notch.
My goal is to get to cage done but it I have time i'll try to add some "first time notcher" tutorial pics sometime.
Posted 04 September 2011 - 04:51 PM
I guess getting busy on another part of the car is my way of dealing with the indecisiveness of me figuring out what route im going to take with these door bars!!!
Im not really sold on the dash hoop as I still want the dash and most of the creature comforts such as heat so I dont want to have to cut in the dash too much to make the dash bar work with a stock dash.
The other option I'm leaning toward is to penetrate the floor like Dan did with his cage and do a firewall hoop and tie the hoop into the sub frame connectors and the frame rails just behind the T/C mount where my subframe connectors are welded to that. I think with the right plate and positioning of the bars I can do a straight horizontal bar to the subframe connector and another angled bar to the subframe connector just behind the T/C mount.
I've also been contemplating losing the low/high door bar all together to make this a little simpler as well as more streetable/daily driverable.
I'll post some pics of what im thinking.
Edited by redneck1545, 07 September 2011 - 04:22 PM.
Posted 04 September 2011 - 05:34 PM
no low high bar.jpg 99.65KB 249 downloads
This is in the list of options that im considering. Not adding the low high bar to make it easier to get in and out. Adding the blue straight down bar to tie into the rocker if it is neccessary.
low door bar.jpg 83.52KB 277 downloads
With no low high door bar the red vertical bar will be non-existent. Penetrate the high/low door bar through the firerwall/footwell and plate, attach the portion that sticks through with one straight horizontal bar to the subframe connector (petes dimensions 1.5"x3"x0.095 wall I believe...maybe 0.083 wall) plate with .100" and then notch into the horizontal bar and attach one angled bar to the front of the sub-con right behind the T/C mount. adding a plate for attatchment points.
If I do add the low/high door bar I have come up with this.
In the pic above the red bar will be neccessary as well as the following pics...
strut tower.jpg 72.71KB 217 downloads Upper bar.jpg 70.13KB 144 downloads
Both door bars will penetrate the firewall and attatch to a firewall hoop. Firewall hoop will have same subframe connector attatchments as well as a strut tower attatchment.
My only questions are can I be safe for a streetable car with no firewall hoop and no Low/High door bar and just the high/low door bar attatched as described ore do I absolutely need the firewall bar and the low "x" door bars to have better peace of mind?
This is pretty much a replica of Dans cage now without the tube front end, which brings to question are the down legs on the firewall hoop going to be wide enough or are his wider since he has no frame firewall forward?
Posted 11 September 2011 - 10:15 AM
I guess it's back to building the seat moints an maybe throw some Zero-rust on the seams I stitch welded.
Edited by redneck1545, 11 September 2011 - 10:17 AM.
Posted 18 September 2011 - 04:22 PM
No more cage stuff until I figure out wat direction I'm headed with it. The dash hoop location is kinda what it putting it on the back burner. The wrong location means i'll end up covering up too many bolt holes where things are supposed to go and since that hoop isnt really moveable I'm gonna wait until the car has some more stuff in it before I continue with the cage. So for now I've got a little four point cage that needs to be welded and painted.
BUT, I haven't been entirely lazy lately and have been working on the sheet metal that will cover the old spare tire well where my fuel cell will be located as well as some seat mounts for my sparco torino 2's to bolt to. I did order some sliders (sparco part number 00493) and had to modify them to work with what i've got goin on.
I pretty much just copied Myron's design on both the seat mounts and fuel cell cage design...if it aint broke dont fix it. Alot of people have made their own stuff up in this area but his designs are pretty much rock solid in my mind. I copied his plans using the 1x1 square tubing, and 1/8" angle iron for the location mounts. The only thing I changed on the fuel cell was I mounted my nuts inside the down tubes instead of having studs extend outward. This makes for an even cleaner install IMO.
The seat mounts were made from 16ga steel sheet that was bent in a brake. (myron cut one side off of 2x2 square tubing). After final welding and prior to painting with zero-rust inside and out I plan on putting these things on a diet by cutting several 1-1/2" holes in various locations and cutting the metal between the holes to make a long oval shape. With the sliders and the 16ga steel these things are just too heavy IMO.
Anyways, enough talking...enjoy
zero rust frame.jpg 94.77KB 186 downloads 2011-09-18_13-44-12_557.jpg 92.51KB 204 downloads 2011-09-18_13-44-23_788.jpg 102.94KB 175 downloads 2011-09-18_13-50-33_621.jpg 75.78KB 174 downloads 2011-09-18_18-42-20_509.jpg 65.4KB 179 downloads 2011-09-18_18-42-33_90.jpg 90.46KB 180 downloads 2011-09-18_18-42-47_821.jpg 73KB 174 downloads 2011-09-18_18-43-05_416.jpg 79.68KB 171 downloads 2011-09-18_18-56-41_219.jpg 85.66KB 171 downloads 2011-09-18_19-11-34_902.jpg 83.27KB 169 downloads 2011-09-18_19-39-06_60.jpg 84.76KB 186 downloads 2011-09-18_19-39-22_291.jpg 100.32KB 200 downloads 2011-09-18_19-40-04_96.jpg 75.31KB 208 downloads 2011-09-18_19-40-25_271.jpg 90.81KB 173 downloads
Posted 19 September 2011 - 05:19 PM
FYI - Post #2,000 for me! yeppie
Edited by proxlamusÂ©, 20 September 2011 - 05:37 AM.
Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:00 AM
Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:22 AM
I'll be getting the cage and camber plates welded by a proffesional this week.
not that I couldn't do it personally I've just been having nightmares about the possibility of me hitting a hard bump and seeing my strut assembly come popping through the hood . So I figured I'd better leave the "its gotta be welded right the first time" stuff to the pro's.
So far I just finished the seat mount dieting plan and prepping those parts for zero-rust treatment as well.
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:13 AM
in the mean time heres what I've been worrying myself with for those who are still watching.
Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:14 AM
Posted 26 December 2011 - 10:49 AM
I think the worst case scenario is a cage with tubes that don't add stiffness to the suspension pickup points, tubes that go to the middle of an unsupported span (your door bars), or tubes that have bends that don't need to be there at all. To my mind this is much worse than making it "too stiff".
As a victim of TFS (tubing fever syndrome) I can say in retrospect that if I were to do it all over knowing what I know now, I'd have about the same number of tubes, might even have more, but they'd be more efficiently used. A lot of cage design in a Z has to do with the spring rate you want to run. Higher the spring rate, the stiffer it needs to be. As to checking what is really necessary, that can be done by measuring torsional stiffness as described in "Think Fast", but it's such a PITA I think I'd rather have an extra couple lbs in tubing. Run really thin diameter tubes for the "extra" stiffener tubes to keep the weight down. When I built my cage, SCCA was just about to redo the specs for tubing size, and there was some questionable language in the solo II rules regarding roll bars. Figuring that they were going to go up in size to increase safety, I built my 6 point with 1.75 x .120, then added the stiffeners with 1.625 x .065. They decided to go down to 1.5 x .095. Oops. If I were to cut the cage out and start over, I'd do 1.5 x .095 for the main part and then 1.375 x .049 for the stiffeners. I bet I could do the whole new cage for the weight of the 1.75" part of my existing cage...
Edited by JMortensen, 26 December 2011 - 10:51 AM.
Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:11 PM
How much does your car weigh Jmortensen? Or what weight are you shooting for might be the better question.
We shall see what the future has in store I suppose.
I think the 4' of tube from the dash hoop to the strut tops will be well worth the weight in the added stiffness.
But I haven't tackled that monster yet because i've been working on this strut sectioning and coil-over install deal. Almost done, i think.
I still need to upload some pics to show progress but where im sitting with the car right now is as follows.
TTT camber plate tops welded,
4 point cage welded, and painted in all the spots that would not be accessable after the bar was installed. (still need to paint the rest of it)
One front strut sectioned, welded and prepped for paint.
Edited by redneck1545, 29 December 2011 - 07:16 PM.
Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:41 AM
Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:06 PM
After prepping the exposed seam welds for paint today I sprayed with another coat of Zero-rust...BUUUUUT, this coat went on MUCH thicker compared to the rest of the body.
In hindsight I think thinned out the first coats on the undercarriage and interior. The coats I put on previously were always a little "dusty" and light black color. The properly thinned coats I put on today are a dark rich smooth coat.
It looks MUCH better and has caused me to want to paint the whole undercarriage and engine bay again at a minimum. If I have enough left over I'll be re-doing the interior as well.
So plans for tomorrow include some 3M scouring pads to scuff up the previous coats, friends, and lots of beer. Hopefully the day will conclude with a fresh properly thinned coat getting sprayed on the whole underside and interior and the car will then be ready for the seam sealer.
Edited by redneck1545, 01 January 2012 - 05:13 PM.
Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:22 PM
Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:17 AM
I plan on only having the exposed coat on the car for less than a year before I tear it all back apart
and spray some undercoating on the underside and a top coat on the interior.
But thank you for the heads up!
Looking back are you happy with zero rust or would you recommend por15 or something similar in the future?
Edited by redneck1545, 06 January 2012 - 05:18 AM.
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