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#21 redneck1545

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:55 AM

Glad to hear it proxlamus!
More to come soon...gotta concentrate on school work for a bit then I'll be back at it.

Thinking of adding some pics of using the notcher itself to hopefully eliminate confusion of cutting wrong angles or cutting the bars too short from making an improper notch.
My goal is to get to cage done but it I have time i'll try to add some "first time notcher" tutorial pics sometime.



#22 redneck1545

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 04:51 PM

I did clean up the notches today so they fit a god bit better. I also prepped the rest of my seam welds for paint.

I guess getting busy on another part of the car is my way of dealing with the indecisiveness of me figuring out what route im going to take with these door bars!!!

Im not really sold on the dash hoop as I still want the dash and most of the creature comforts such as heat so I dont want to have to cut in the dash too much to make the dash bar work with a stock dash.

The other option I'm leaning toward is to penetrate the floor like Dan did with his cage and do a firewall hoop and tie the hoop into the sub frame connectors and the frame rails just behind the T/C mount where my subframe connectors are welded to that. I think with the right plate and positioning of the bars I can do a straight horizontal bar to the subframe connector and another angled bar to the subframe connector just behind the T/C mount.

I've also been contemplating losing the low/high door bar all together to make this a little simpler as well as more streetable/daily driverable.

I'll post some pics of what im thinking.

Edited by redneck1545, 07 September 2011 - 04:22 PM.


#23 redneck1545

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 05:34 PM

Ok so here goes.
Attached File  no low high bar.jpg   99.65KB   249 downloads
This is in the list of options that im considering. Not adding the low high bar to make it easier to get in and out. Adding the blue straight down bar to tie into the rocker if it is neccessary.

Attached File  low door bar.jpg   83.52KB   277 downloads
With no low high door bar the red vertical bar will be non-existent. Penetrate the high/low door bar through the firerwall/footwell and plate, attach the portion that sticks through with one straight horizontal bar to the subframe connector (petes dimensions 1.5"x3"x0.095 wall I believe...maybe 0.083 wall) plate with .100" and then notch into the horizontal bar and attach one angled bar to the front of the sub-con right behind the T/C mount. adding a plate for attatchment points.

If I do add the low/high door bar I have come up with this.
In the pic above the red bar will be neccessary as well as the following pics...
Attached File  strut tower.jpg   72.71KB   217 downloadsAttached File  Upper bar.jpg   70.13KB   144 downloads
Both door bars will penetrate the firewall and attatch to a firewall hoop. Firewall hoop will have same subframe connector attatchments as well as a strut tower attatchment.

My only questions are can I be safe for a streetable car with no firewall hoop and no Low/High door bar and just the high/low door bar attatched as described ore do I absolutely need the firewall bar and the low "x" door bars to have better peace of mind?

This is pretty much a replica of Dans cage now without the tube front end, which brings to question are the down legs on the firewall hoop going to be wide enough or are his wider since he has no frame firewall forward?

Awaiting advice...

#24 redneck1545

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 10:15 AM

nobody has any opinions or other ideas???

I guess it's back to building the seat moints an maybe throw some Zero-rust on the seams I stitch welded.

Edited by redneck1545, 11 September 2011 - 10:17 AM.


#25 redneck1545

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 04:22 PM

Update for those who are watching.

No more cage stuff until I figure out wat direction I'm headed with it. The dash hoop location is kinda what it putting it on the back burner. The wrong location means i'll end up covering up too many bolt holes where things are supposed to go and since that hoop isnt really moveable I'm gonna wait until the car has some more stuff in it before I continue with the cage. So for now I've got a little four point cage that needs to be welded and painted.

BUT, I haven't been entirely lazy lately and have been working on the sheet metal that will cover the old spare tire well where my fuel cell will be located as well as some seat mounts for my sparco torino 2's to bolt to. I did order some sliders (sparco part number 00493) and had to modify them to work with what i've got goin on.

I pretty much just copied Myron's design on both the seat mounts and fuel cell cage design...if it aint broke dont fix it. Alot of people have made their own stuff up in this area but his designs are pretty much rock solid in my mind. I copied his plans using the 1x1 square tubing, and 1/8" angle iron for the location mounts. The only thing I changed on the fuel cell was I mounted my nuts inside the down tubes instead of having studs extend outward. This makes for an even cleaner install IMO.

The seat mounts were made from 16ga steel sheet that was bent in a brake. (myron cut one side off of 2x2 square tubing). After final welding and prior to painting with zero-rust inside and out I plan on putting these things on a diet by cutting several 1-1/2" holes in various locations and cutting the metal between the holes to make a long oval shape. With the sliders and the 16ga steel these things are just too heavy IMO.

Anyways, enough talking...enjoy

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#26 proxlamus©

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 05:19 PM

Nice! Very clean install! I'm still watching this thread!

FYI - Post #2,000 for me! yeppie

Edited by proxlamus©, 20 September 2011 - 05:37 AM.

Currently on a rotisserie for a full restoration - L28 with 9mm rods, 88mm Ross pistons (3.0L), 8.5:1 CR, Schneider Stage II cam, Holset HY35W, Megasquirt, Suzuki GSXR ITB's and home made intake plenum, Z32 transmission, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, ACT stage II clutch and pressure plate, coil-overs, vented 4x4 front brakes, 240sx rear brakes, Corbeau FX1 Pro seat, (soon to be half cage) and still debating the paint.. hurm

#27 redneck1545

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 06:12 AM

heres some of the previous stripping and body prep that i did a while back.

http://forums.hybrid...__1#entry886114

beware, this was before i discovered picture resizing.

Edited by redneck1545, 24 September 2011 - 06:13 AM.


#28 Racer Z

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 12:16 PM

Signed up to see the continuing build on this. We will be doing the same job soon enough to our dedicated road racer (240z). Fuel cell and full cage. Your job and setup (template) looks good.
Racer Z
Escargot Racing

#29 redneck1545

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:00 AM

Sorry for the lack of update...I'm still sorting things out with it. And I bought a new toy, so money has been a little tighter. More to come soon!

#30 redneck1545

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:22 AM

update as promised.

I'll be getting the cage and camber plates welded by a proffesional this week.
not that I couldn't do it personally I've just been having nightmares about the possibility of me hitting a hard bump and seeing my strut assembly come popping through the hood :(. So I figured I'd better leave the "its gotta be welded right the first time" stuff to the pro's.

So far I just finished the seat mount dieting plan and prepping those parts for zero-rust treatment as well.

Attached File  2011-12-17_11-53-12_39.jpg   82.93KB   127 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_11-53-34_169.jpg   88.15KB   150 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_12-08-53_799.jpg   72.45KB   136 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_12-28-49_126.jpg   83.01KB   136 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_13-26-13_585.jpg   103.53KB   149 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_13-26-21_719.jpg   99.3KB   145 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_13-26-31_388.jpg   86.31KB   116 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_13-26-55_460.jpg   111.32KB   104 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_13-27-13_595.jpg   83.91KB   123 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_13-27-19_7.jpg   96.17KB   147 downloadsAttached File  2011-12-17_13-27-25_431.jpg   105.76KB   132 downloads

#31 redneck1545

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:13 AM

Got the cage and camber plates welded last week but had to tow it home in the rain so im taking care of all that before I take pics.

in the mean time heres what I've been worrying myself with for those who are still watching.
http://forums.hybrid...ctioned-struts/

#32 johnc

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:14 AM

Although you're not there yet, beware of "Tubing Fever." That's where you start running tubes all over the car, reinforcing this or that, based on your own internal monolog. Generally you end up with a car that's as stiff as hell but has an extra 250 lbs. of tubing run everywhere.
----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC

#33 JMortensen

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 10:49 AM

Or for the other perspective, read the threads from "blainefab" over at corner-carves.com and TUBE IT UP!!! :P

I think the worst case scenario is a cage with tubes that don't add stiffness to the suspension pickup points, tubes that go to the middle of an unsupported span (your door bars), or tubes that have bends that don't need to be there at all. To my mind this is much worse than making it "too stiff".

As a victim of TFS (tubing fever syndrome) I can say in retrospect that if I were to do it all over knowing what I know now, I'd have about the same number of tubes, might even have more, but they'd be more efficiently used. A lot of cage design in a Z has to do with the spring rate you want to run. Higher the spring rate, the stiffer it needs to be. As to checking what is really necessary, that can be done by measuring torsional stiffness as described in "Think Fast", but it's such a PITA I think I'd rather have an extra couple lbs in tubing. Run really thin diameter tubes for the "extra" stiffener tubes to keep the weight down. When I built my cage, SCCA was just about to redo the specs for tubing size, and there was some questionable language in the solo II rules regarding roll bars. Figuring that they were going to go up in size to increase safety, I built my 6 point with 1.75 x .120, then added the stiffeners with 1.625 x .065. They decided to go down to 1.5 x .095. Oops. If I were to cut the cage out and start over, I'd do 1.5 x .095 for the main part and then 1.375 x .049 for the stiffeners. I bet I could do the whole new cage for the weight of the 1.75" part of my existing cage...

Edited by JMortensen, 26 December 2011 - 10:51 AM.

Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com


#34 redneck1545

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:11 PM

Yea I've considered all of the responses of what and you an johnc have said. I will be running a mini hoop or a dash hoop and tie the door bars into that. Then, I will most likely end up running tubes through the firewall to the strut tops. I'm trying not to go tube crazy right now because I keep telling myself this is just a street car...Yet I always find myself in my shop building a race car and can't seem to find the disconnection ;) I'm trying to keep this car sub 2600lbs but with a Q45 R-200/T56/early SBC Im already adding extra weight in the drivetrain. I'll be buying Techno Toy Tuning's rear-end conversion kit here soon and as most know, that kit is not known for its lightweight characteristics. So far my 4-point cage is 1.5"x 0.095 and depending on how much the thing weighs in already I may just decide to stick with the little 4-pointer and call it a day.

How much does your car weigh Jmortensen? Or what weight are you shooting for might be the better question.


We shall see what the future has in store I suppose.

I think the 4' of tube from the dash hoop to the strut tops will be well worth the weight in the added stiffness.

But I haven't tackled that monster yet because i've been working on this strut sectioning and coil-over install deal. Almost done, i think.

I still need to upload some pics to show progress but where im sitting with the car right now is as follows.

TTT camber plate tops welded,
4 point cage welded, and painted in all the spots that would not be accessable after the bar was installed. (still need to paint the rest of it)
One front strut sectioned, welded and prepped for paint.

Edited by redneck1545, 29 December 2011 - 07:16 PM.


#35 JMortensen

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:29 PM

I'm shooting for 2250 lbs, but I have a stripped interior and Coffey's FG hood and hatch and gutted doors, no headlights, pared down wiring, etc.

Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com


#36 redneck1545

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:41 AM

Do you think my goal for 2600 is unrealistic with all the added metal and heavy drivetrain?

#37 JMortensen

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 12:27 PM

Really don't know. This is the tricky bit, balancing the lightness with stiffness.

Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com


#38 redneck1545

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:06 PM

One step forward two steps back.

After prepping the exposed seam welds for paint today I sprayed with another coat of Zero-rust...BUUUUUT, this coat went on MUCH thicker compared to the rest of the body.

In hindsight I think thinned out the first coats on the undercarriage and interior. The coats I put on previously were always a little "dusty" and light black color. The properly thinned coats I put on today are a dark rich smooth coat.

It looks MUCH better and has caused me to want to paint the whole undercarriage and engine bay again at a minimum. If I have enough left over I'll be re-doing the interior as well.

So plans for tomorrow include some 3M scouring pads to scuff up the previous coats, friends, and lots of beer. Hopefully the day will conclude with a fresh properly thinned coat getting sprayed on the whole underside and interior and the car will then be ready for the seam sealer.

Edited by redneck1545, 01 January 2012 - 05:13 PM.


#39 heavy85

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:22 PM

Re Zerorust. I used that and it seems to work great on the floorboards and engine bay BUT it chips really really bad when exposed to flying debris such as in the wheel wells. And yes I used the primer powder stuff they sell for it.

Cameron

#40 redneck1545

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:17 AM

Im planning on using the ZeroRust as a base sealer so to speak.
I plan on only having the exposed coat on the car for less than a year before I tear it all back apart
and spray some undercoating on the underside and a top coat on the interior.

But thank you for the heads up!
Looking back are you happy with zero rust or would you recommend por15 or something similar in the future?

Edited by redneck1545, 06 January 2012 - 05:18 AM.





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