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Running hot with new alum radiator


slyhog22056

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Hey there people i am back again with another question / problem.

This summer has been hotter than normal so i had been having problems running hot with the datsun brass radiator, so i went and bought a new aluminum radiator with 2 rows of 1" tubes, 2 new 12" puller fans rated at 1550 cfm each. i did test then to make sure i had the airflow going the right way before installing them. I am using a 180* failsafe thermostat and i am still having a problem of running 210* to 220* around town. Is it normal for this 302 (1988) to run this hot?

I get worried when i see the temp creeping up above 210*. The main reason i get worried is anytime it gets above 200 it tends to run on when i shut it down. Right now it is only in the high 80's to mid 90's and it still runs that hot. Hate to think what will happen when i install A/C in the future.

My original datsun radiator was cooled by a 16" puller fan with shroud.

Another short question, to what points does the heater hoses hook up to this 302?? i have 2 ports on the water pump and 1 on the thermostat housing. post-4129-088007100 1316406861_thumb.jpeg New radiator

post-4129-024785300 1316406562_thumb.jpg original radiator

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One thing that you need to check is that your water pump is turning the correct direction. The serpentine water pumps (because they are supposed to use the back side of the belt) turn the opposite direction as the old v-belt configuration. I would start at this point (get an older 302 water pump, because of the direction that you are turning the water pump). As to the heater line ports, the top port runs into the water neck on the thermostat, the second one runs in to the heater. The other side of the heater core runs into the port on the front-top side of the intake..... this port should be located in between the distributor and the water neck. If you still need more help reply send me a pm and I will take an exact picture of my setup to eliminate all questions if you still have any.

Adam

Here is an image for you

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoYAfynZOMjUAoHGJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dford%2B302%2Bwindsor%26sado%3D1%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701%26fr2%3Dsg-gac%26b%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic&w=640&h=480&imgurl=www.calgaryvolvoclub.com%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F9704-1%2FCH07.JPG&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.302w.com%2FForums%2Fforums%2Fthread%2F538.aspx&size=77.8+KB&name=Ford+Windsor+Forums+-+V8+Volvord&p=ford+302+windsor&oid=ce1677e1b6fb96aa9efbc7d882210277&fr2=sg-gac&fr=yfp-t-701&tt=Ford+Windsor+Forums+-+V8+Volvord&b=0&ni=28&no=8&tab=organic&sigr=11h5818q9&sigb=13sse03ti&sigi=11i1dccpr&.crumb=QZF1iHkLCZO

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This is a aftermarket water pump for this engine, forward rotation serpentine belt driven as it came from the 88 lincoln towncar originally same grooved pulleys. As for running the heater line into the intake beside the water neck, that port is not accessable, it is partially covered by the HEI distributor. They are run right now into and out of the engine at the t-stat housing before the t-stat and into the bottom 5/8" port of the water pump. Just wanting to make sure the arrangement i now have will circulate enough before i cover them all up with aluminum side panels this winter.

And yes i prefer to stick with the top flow radiator because the side tank ones mean i have to run the top radiator hose across the engine bay to the top fitting, dont want that since i now only have a 13" top hose and 16" lower hose that isnt snaked all over the place and just looks neater. And no they arent collapsing.

 

I have been looking for a open faced (No shrouds) 14" to 16" fan to mount an inch or so in front of the radiator like the factory cobras have but cant find any. I have a 16" s blade fan with shroud i can cut out some of the grill work and mount up there. Right now my fans kick in at 150, I just dont want to surface mount anything on this new aluminum radiator. There isnt anything mounted in front of this radiator to block airflow. My trans, oil and fuel coolers are mounted horizontally across the bottom close to the bottom tank. Am i just worrying too much about 210 to 220 degreees???

 

post-4129-066765400 1316444773_thumb.jpg

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I would be as well hence the fact that both of us that have replied, the cross flow radiator will help with your cooling you will also need a shroud to help with the cooling I made mine out of fiberglass. And the way that you have on your waterlines I don't think will work.... that port that is on the thermostat of your water neck is a water by pass. This creates circulation of water before your thermostat opens. In my personal opinion find a fitting that will fit into the original water ports, they make some lower profile ones. If this still does not work then I might would look into a different distributor or intake.

This is a aftermarket water pump for this engine, forward rotation serpentine belt driven as it came from the 88 lincoln towncar originally same grooved pulleys. As for running the heater line into the intake beside the water neck, that port is not accessable, it is partially covered by the HEI distributor. They are run right now into and out of the engine at the t-stat housing before the t-stat and into the bottom 5/8" port of the water pump. Just wanting to make sure the arrangement i now have will circulate enough before i cover them all up with aluminum side panels this winter.

And yes i prefer to stick with the top flow radiator because the side tank ones mean i have to run the top radiator hose across the engine bay to the top fitting, dont want that since i now only have a 13" top hose and 16" lower hose that isnt snaked all over the place and just looks neater. And no they arent collapsing.

 

I have been looking for a open faced (No shrouds) 14" to 16" fan to mount an inch or so in front of the radiator like the factory cobras have but cant find any. I have a 16" s blade fan with shroud i can cut out some of the grill work and mount up there. Right now my fans kick in at 150, I just dont want to surface mount anything on this new aluminum radiator. There isnt anything mounted in front of this radiator to block airflow. My trans, oil and fuel coolers are mounted horizontally across the bottom close to the bottom tank. Am i just worrying too much about 210 to 220 degreees???

 

post-4129-066765400 1316444773_thumb.jpg

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Well i guess i can refab a shroud for the 16" puller fan, no problem at all, just want to make sure it will work correctly before i make one out of 'glass. i have 8" between the radiator and waterpump pulley to play with. I just thought the 2-12" fans would pull more air through the radiator fins than the 16" would. The reason i didnt mount it onto the newer radiator is because at highway speed the 16" fan was restricting airflow and run hot, (s blade style)so i bought a pair of high cfm 12's (straight blades) I guess then that calls for those little rubber flaps that open at highway speeds but held closed by the fans at low speed made famous by GM. Funny thing is i didnt have any problems with the datsun radiator until i had it rodded out, it never got above 190.

So the little nipple on the t-stat housing pointing straight forward is a bypass that goes where??? My water pump has 2 5/8" nipples one is on the pressure side of the impeller and one is on the suction side of the impeller.

There is a boss on top of the t-stat housing that hasnt been drilled and tapped before the t-stat, is that where it is supposed to go?? same area as the intake side of housing. I can always make a 90* fitting for it.

I dont know because i bought this engine already removed from the car and have tried to look at others at the junk yard to see how they are routed. Seems like every one i find has had hoses and wiriing stripped off of them. i am trying to keep these hoses and everything as neatly routed as possible.

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I will take a picture of my setup maybe it will give you a guide line of the routing. I will try to do this when I get home and put up a link.

Well i guess i can refab a shroud for the 16" puller fan, no problem at all, just want to make sure it will work correctly before i make one out of 'glass. i have 8" between the radiator and waterpump pulley to play with. I just thought the 2-12" fans would pull more air through the radiator fins than the 16" would. The reason i didnt mount it onto the newer radiator is because at highway speed the 16" fan was restricting airflow and run hot, (s blade style)so i bought a pair of high cfm 12's (straight blades) I guess then that calls for those little rubber flaps that open at highway speeds but held closed by the fans at low speed made famous by GM. Funny thing is i didnt have any problems with the datsun radiator until i had it rodded out, it never got above 190.

So the little nipple on the t-stat housing pointing straight forward is a bypass that goes where??? My water pump has 2 5/8" nipples one is on the pressure side of the impeller and one is on the suction side of the impeller.

There is a boss on top of the t-stat housing that hasnt been drilled and tapped before the t-stat, is that where it is supposed to go?? same area as the intake side of housing. I can always make a 90* fitting for it.

I dont know because i bought this engine already removed from the car and have tried to look at others at the junk yard to see how they are routed. Seems like every one i find has had hoses and wiriing stripped off of them. i am trying to keep these hoses and everything as neatly routed as possible.

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i do have all the air out of the system the radiator water neck is the high point in my system, learned about air pockets the hard way with my 1984 bmw 633 csi. there is a 1/8" hole in my t-stat so it can let the air out while filling cold, i let my son drive it for a couple of days and he checked the antifreexe in it and it seems like i got too much antifreeze and not enough water. he diluted it down to -20 freeze point and i will see how it goes from there. I think i am going to make a temporary fan shroud for the 16" fan and see how that works. I do want to see how your heater lines are run so i can get these right.

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Yeah I slacked on that yesterday I will try again to snap a pic when I get home.

i do have all the air out of the system the radiator water neck is the high point in my system, learned about air pockets the hard way with my 1984 bmw 633 csi. there is a 1/8" hole in my t-stat so it can let the air out while filling cold, i let my son drive it for a couple of days and he checked the antifreexe in it and it seems like i got too much antifreeze and not enough water. he diluted it down to -20 freeze point and i will see how it goes from there. I think i am going to make a temporary fan shroud for the 16" fan and see how that works. I do want to see how your heater lines are run so i can get these right.

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I know the feeling, usually here it is still over 100* outside when i get home from work at 8 pm. Here are some pictures of the same style waterpump with 2, 5/8" nipples (pic is upside down) and the same style thermostat housing just like i have with the boss on the top, where this guys sender is at, but mine isnt tapped. I am assuming there is supposed to be a pypass hose from the side nipple on the housing to the top hose fitting on the water pump since that is a suction side of pump. My heater hoses then should run from the lower nipple on the pump, out to the heater core and return into the boss on top of the t-stat housing. Correct???

 

post-4129-078007400 1316740692_thumb.jpg

 

post-4129-034966900 1316740732_thumb.jpg

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I tend to agree with DandyZ

Make sure you have purged the air out of the system.

Jack up the front of the car and burp the air out with cap off.

I had a problem with a new Z radiator until the system was cleared of air.

Only other possibility is a stuck thermostat, and the original radiator may have been fine. Take out the thermostat, give that a try.

You definitely have an air pocket in there somewhere, and diluting the water with antifreeze has no bearing on the problem.

All of the vehicles on the NY State Thruway are running antifreeze set to -20 deg and they run all year that way,

even in the heat of summer. Northerners set the antifreeze to be worst possible case, and go with it 3365 days.

Paul

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Ok, not to hi-jack this, but........while we're talking about cooling system problems....

 

On my swap (96 Ford 4.6 SOHC), the rear of the block where the manifold heater outlet is is much higher than the radiator, I had assumed that the water pump would force out any air trapped in lines, is this incorrect? The other question I have is since it's the highest point, that's where I've been filling it, by removing a line, and pouring my coolant into the back of the block, does someone make an inline filler or something? Or is there a car out there with a similar at least radiator style filler port or something? (Like this, but not plastic... Prestoline Flush T )

Edited by yellowoctupus
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well it isnt the thermostat, i only use failsafe and have only had problems with them sticking in the wide open position (3 so far), i can start it and watch with the cap off and it only takes 3 or 4 minutes until it opens up, and yes too much antifreeze over a 50/50 mixture will cause over heating, too much is worse than not enough, i had about 1 3/4 gallons of antifreeze in this system before my son diluted it down.

With the 1/8" hole in the thermostat it is almost impossible to get trapped air, i start it let it warm up and shut it off then top it off, the top tank of my radiator is 4" higher than the intake manifold so its hard to believe it still has air in it. Am driving it to work tomorrow to let our guy pull a vacuum on it and fill it with his machine, that will definetly take out any air.

what temps do the rest of you run around town??? My boss says 220* isnt hot at all for a 302. He says he wouldnt worry until it got to 230 to 240,

Maybe i need to just get one of my sons 383 or 360 mopars and fit it in there.....

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thermostathousing.jpg

 

Well here is it labeled for you, and 220 is too hot for a carbed 302 engine my temps never ran above 185 on my 347 remember where your thermostat is set...... if the cooling system is functioning correctly then it will at most be 5* above this.

Edited by Adam
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Before purging completely I was running 200-220. After, 180-190. Have you blocked off the area in front and below the rad. and around the supports so all the air is flowing through the rad.? This has been covered ad nauseum on this forum. It does make a big difference.

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oki got the idea of the hoses now, i will have to find a way to route the return hose since that port on my intake isnt accessable. I am thinking i might have to block the area from the lower edge of my air dam on back to the lower support with a sheet of aluminum. that will keep all the air in front of the radiator and has to go thru it then. The only other openings are the 3" holes for the cabin air intake, i am just thinking these 12" fans arent going to do it, after i get back from the racetrack this weekend i am going to fab up a shroud for my 16" fan. Even today the high was only in the low 90's and it still got up too 200 idling in park.

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