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Ryan Merrill

Coyote Motor in 240Z thoughts.

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I am fairly new to the board. I have mainly build mustangs and i am just completing a Modfox. 1993 LX coupe, 4.6L 4V Mach 1 motor, T-56 6 speed, Vortech V7 JT trim Supercharger.

 

I just picked up a clean 72 240Z which currently has a non running 302 and an auto in it. I was planning on putting a 4V in the car after seeing some the other 4V builds.

 

Now I am thinking of putting the new 5 Liter (Coyote) motor depending on dimensions of the motor. I am trying to find those details. This will be accompanied by a 6 speed T56. The car would be fuel injected. The motor can be bough for about 6500 US complete with oil. It would require another 800 for the computer and related hardware. The motor rated at 412 HP and with headers it bring them up to the 450 HP range.

 

At this point I am gathering information and idea's.

 

Opinions, concern's and comment's welcome.

 

Ryan

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Did you find any completed 4V builds?

 

lol no. It wont be that difficult providing it physically fits. It's a similar process to putting the 4.6 4V motor in my 93 to replace the 5L push rod motor. It its fits, I can make it to run. None of the wiring works between the 93 and 04 motor, different computer, different k-member, different wiring harnesses, different fuel system (return v return-less. Took me about a year to build the modfox

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They make the stand alone kit fromm frpp so it would be simple to get running the only concerns i see is if you plan on modding it further you have to be careful these motors have a weak number 8cyl thats sensative to performance tunning,also getting a transmission the new fords use an mt82 and not a t-56 idk if a t-56 will work assuming thats what you wanted to use, and another thing is the weight of the motor im sure exceeds that of an Ls1, sbc, and reaches to big block territory at 544lbs without any assccesories if you were concerned about that at all. I would diffently want to see one done though and wouldn't mind helping out in anyway i can. imo this would be cooler than an ls1 z not nocking on any cause i like those too lol.

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It looks like that will be a pretty cool ride when he gets done with it. The 4.6L two valve heads seem like they run out of breath above 4k, which is where I think the 4V heads would help, but in day to day driving, they're identical on peak torque and just as good. I can't imagine the space constraints of the 4V are worth the hassle.

Options for new 5.0's are:

 

Buy one from the factory.

 

Pros: New (if you use their engine manangement, maybe it would have no theft programming to get around),

Cons: WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.

 

Mustang 5.0 Wreck

 

Pro: Hipo engine, low mileage as they're still all pretty new

Con: Hard to find. Rarely in the wrecking yard as the cars are still worth enough to fix, instead of totaling.

 

From http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/specifications/engine/ (and Wikipedia):

GT models included a 32-valve 5.0 L engine (4951cc or 302.13 cu. in.) (also referred to as the "Coyote" engine) producing 412 hp (307 kW) and 390 lb·ft (530 N·m) of torque on "premium fuel" (91 octane). Power dropped to 402 hp (300 kW) and 377 lb·ft (511 N·m) when using "regular fuel" (87 octane).[54] There is much speculation to the actual output of Ford's 5.0 powerplant. Various dynamometer tests have revealed that Ford Motor Company underrated the engine, according to the tests the engine is closer to a power of 435 hp and 404 ft. lbs tq.

 

F150 5.0 Wreck

 

Pro: More likely to find, will still meet California swap rules (light p/u truck)

Con: Maybe has a weird intake(?), like the earlier mod engines (really long intake runners make for a tall intake), slightly heavier with cast manifolds, larger intake.

 

From Wikipedia:

A torque-biased variant of the Coyote is produced as an alternative to the EcoBoost V6 in the new F-150 pickup truck. The F150 5.0L receives a lower compression ratio (10.5:1), intake camshafts with less duration, cast iron exhaust manifolds, and revised cylinder heads and intake manifold intended to promote low-end and mid-range power and torque. The engine retains the Coyote's forged steel crank and piston-cooling jets but benefits from the addition of an external engine oil cooler similar to the Boss 302's. The changes result in the engine's peak horsepower dropping to 360 bhp (268 kW; 365 PS) while torque remains the same as the Boss 302 at 380 lb·ft (520 N·m).

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I was in one of my clients shops yesterday and they where talking about the Coyote sitting on the stand awaiting its home in a 66 notch back. I know little of these engines but was amazed when they said it turned "something like 550 or 575" on the engine dyno. It had short tubular headers and what appeared to be a stock intake mani. Wow! I paid it little attention though as I was enamored with the 240z that had an '11 Camaro v6 and 6 speed with some late model IRS. If I get back up there while its still on the stand I'll pull a tape on it for you, but I'm sure you can find the dimentions online somewhere.

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I've been raving about these motors left and right, even on this very forum with a thread dedicated to them. This might be hard for some to swallow, but I personally believe the new 5.0 platform might be the best OHC V8 platform every created simply when to look at the insane level of refinement coupled with the volume they will sell. Sure there's "more advanced" OHC V8 engines out there, but not in anything close to these production numbers and available in a catalog for such a price.

 

It's no different than how as much as a non-chevy guy it pains me to say it, but the LSx platform is simply the best pushrod platform created.

 

 

Now, as for fitting one in a S30. There's be AT LEAST two ford Mod motors put into S30's, one of which was a 4v lincoln motor. These coyote motors are considerably smaller regarding head dimensions, but that doesn't make it a walk in the park. Relocation of steering linkage will pretty much be a given unless you want to make some quite spectacular one off exhaust manifolds, which might be required anyways. From what I've seen though the stock mustang manifolds are only hurting maybe a max 15hp and look like they might be a good fit for a S30. There's also the issue of getting pipes past the burly T56, but plenty of people here have managed just fine with their LSX swaps using the same box. Oil pan is already a rear sump, so fitment there shouldn't be a huge hassle, though the block is a very deep skirt so getting it slung low might be problematic, which brings you to the height issue. The stock intake is fairly "low profile" but I'd be concerned about the overall height of this beast. Worst case scenario would be requiring a hood with a couple inch cowl, or you could go to the other extreme of x-member modifications to lower it as much as possible.

 

The reality though is that people are fitting them in just about EVERYTHING right now. Cobras, T buckets, Hot Rod Coupes, vintage Stangs, etc. I even saw one in a Fox body. So there's plenty of people out there "making it work". It's just the matter of having the money. At $6k+ for a crate motor it's too rich for my blood, but as with ALL things mustang, the price WILL come down with time. It's only a matter of time before they're in the junkyards going for the same flat rate, sitting next to the old pushrod 5.0 motors.

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Look up a company called Copart.They handle the sale of totaled cars for insurence companies.On thier website they list the location of the cars and thier sale day.you have to register with them to bid though.I found brokers on the internet that will do the bidding for you for a fee ($200) but I cannot vouch for thier reliability brcause I havent tried this yet.there is another big player called LKQ.They sell parts retail and buy alot of late model wrecks to part out.Both of these companies are squeezing the old school wreckers out of business.Here in central california you cant really find late model wrecks at the local mom&pop yard.

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 another thing is the weight of the motor im sure exceeds that of an Ls1, sbc, and reaches to big block territory at 544lbs without any assccesories if you were concerned about that at all.  

No, its'  444 lbs .

 

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/5_0L_412HP_2011_MUSTANG_CRATE_ENGINE_p/m-6007-m50.htm

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Super low budget version would be to find a 1998 Lincoln mark VIII at the junkyard and get the entire engine with all accessories for 250 bucks and then spend another 40 for the harness and fit it yourself.

 

Most I have seen there have teksid aluminum blocks and it's usually the rest of the car or the transmission that ended up the car at the junkyard but you're still rolling the dice at a upull yard.

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Super low budget version would be to find a 1998 Lincoln mark VIII at the junkyard and get the entire engine with all accessories for 250 bucks and then spend another 40 for the harness and fit it yourself.

 

Most I have seen there have teksid aluminum blocks and it's usually the rest of the car or the transmission that ended up the car at the junkyard but you're still rolling the dice at a upull yard.

Thats not a coyote engine? You can't even compare the two as there worlds apart. The Coyote is the new 5.0L out of the GT's. No ones ever done one of those before.. The lincoln motors are sub par except for the blocks. They make 260 HP to the wheels. I have a 4V Mach 1 motor with an eaton, cobra brakes, T-56 6 speed,  swap on my 93 coupe.

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The 5.0 is SO different, I can't think of a single part that it shares with ANY previous mod motor... Just off the top of my head they have a different:

 

Block

Crank

Rods

Pistons

Heads

Cams

Valves

Valve Srings

Rockers (roller)

Intake Manifold

Exhaust Manifold

 

Is there much else?

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I just got my Ford 302 running and drove it for the first time this weekend. It was awesome, but got me thinking about the current gen of motors. I can't seem to figure out how to hyper link here, but there is a good article on Hotrod Magazine's website that talks about swapping the Coyote motor. I think it would fit being only 5" wider than an SBF. On my car I have already relocated the oil filter and put a U-Joints in the steering shaft. The oil pan may be a concern, but that is an easy fix. Very interesting indeed.

 

Too bad it isn't direct injected though. If it had direct injection, that would be the icing on the cake.

Edited by rudypoochris

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I just got my Ford 302 running and drove it for the first time this weekend. It was awesome, but got me thinking about the current gen of motors. I can't seem to figure out how to hyper link here, but there is a good article on Hotrod Magazine's website that talks about swapping the Coyote motor. I think it would fit being only 5" wider than an SBF. On my car I have already relocated the oil filter and put a U-Joints in the steering shaft. The oil pan may be a concern, but that is an easy fix. Very interesting indeed.

 

Too bad it isn't direct injected though. If it had direct injection, that would be the icing on the cake.

The motor already has the bosses for direct injection in the motor. I think there just holding off untit the new gen of mustang come on sale.

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The motor already has the bosses for direct injection in the motor. I think there just holding off untit the new gen of mustang come on sale.

 

That's awesome. We would need a FRPP stand alone for the DI also since very few standalones support that.

 

I don't think this is the platform for it since the power would be too much, but a 5.0L DI with E85 and twin turbos would be... well into the 1,000 hp range on over 10:1 CR.

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The 5.0L Coyote should fit between the shock towers, with a little room left. Just for grins, I dropped my 429 SCJ, down in my engine bay to see how it would fit it had about 4 inches on each side. I'm working on my electrical stuff now on my 1977 Fordsun Boss 630Z . My power windows, locks, and mirrors with a 2000 Mustang wiring harness and parts.The windows and locks work great.

351W Stroker with standard bore.

And hello; Rudypoochris. Long time no see.

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That's awesome. We would need a FRPP stand alone for the DI also since very few standalones support that.

 

I don't think this is the platform for it since the power would be too much, but a 5.0L DI with E85 and twin turbos would be... well into the 1,000 hp range on over 10:1 CR.

 

 

Well over that I think. Stock motor with injectors and BAP are making over 600 to the wheels at 10 psi.

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Well Rudy, mine went on hold for awhile. But I'm about to get back at it. Health problems was the cause. I'm using my spare 3.85 stroke crank in my 351W and will give me 387 ci or 6.3L. Boss 302 pistons, and heads, with the Aussy 302C rods and Edelbrock intake port matched. The dyno program shows just under 600hp at the flywheel. Thats why I called it a Boss 630Z. It aught to be fun to drive. I've modified everything except the exterior of the car, with the exception of the fuel door. Its on the drivers side now, because of the 23 gallon 89 Bronco 2 gas tank. I have Long Tube Headers with the Flow Master 2 1/2" dual exhaust kit installed with a removable H-pipe. My frame rails had rotted out, so I cut the and welded in 1 1/2" x 3" rectangular tubing for the frame rails, and gained close to 3" between the rails.

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