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Ryan Merrill

Coyote Motor in 240Z thoughts.

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thedarkie    2

I have a decently upgraded carb'd 302 (306 technically) in my Z... it pulls great, sounds great, etc. But I'd kill for a Coyote motor under the hood. Might be doable in a few more years when the engines come down in price. As it stands, nobody is getting their paws on the engine, trans and electronics without $10k... and at that level, you can build a lot better. 

Edited by thedarkie

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Gollum    23

Flat plane? That'd be new... they got a way to go on the specific output to hit that power.

 

Depends. If you look at the torque levels they're hitting for the displacement, they're beating most any production engine, even the coveted 120hp/liter F20C. The big difference of course is the redline, but dyno's show that the Coyote is making plenty of power till redline. All points to the fact that more RPM and some more aggressive cams should do quite well, and that's not even going into port modifications.

 

But you're right, that's a BIG jump. But I don't think it's unreasonable to get 111hp per liter.

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gijohnny23    0

Please tell me someone is in the works of putting the coyote in a z. When I was younger a 351 was my dream in a 72 240 I had prior to the army. 12 years a wife and three kids and a 75 280 later I really want some input as far as a how to. For me it's the gas mileage vs hp. Would I love 400hp at the wheels with 28mpg highway of course but if you haven't driven the new boss or heard the quad exhaust note I suggest you do.

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Gollum    23

Please tell me someone is in the works of putting the coyote in a z. When I was younger a 351 was my dream in a 72 240 I had prior to the army. 12 years a wife and three kids and a 75 280 later I really want some input as far as a how to. For me it's the gas mileage vs hp. Would I love 400hp at the wheels with 28mpg highway of course but if you haven't driven the new boss or heard the quad exhaust note I suggest you do.

 

I try to stay on top of what people are doing, and I haven't heard ANYTHING on fitting the coyote. It WILL fit though. Will there be challenges? Of course. I wouldn't consider it if you didn't have at least mild fabrication skills.

 

Main issue that will come up is exhaust fitment, and there's several options you could look into to make it work. Even if the heads are "too wide" at any point, you can widen the shock towers enough to clear I'm sure. Also, if you're going to shave the firewall brackets to move the engine back as far as possible, things like the heater hoses become difficult to work around, but not impossible. The further you get the engine back though, the easier routing exhaust should become.

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jpndave    1

I am seriously considering going this route over the LS. That is saying a lot, I KNOW the LS and have done swaps on them before. I have a 6.2L I am stroking now in my JK, 4" to a 6.8L and had planned a similar non-VVT engine for the 240Z. The 4 valve Coyote or much, much more ideally the Voodoo seem to really have what I want in the Z. That is a high revving (over 8K on the Voodoo!) powerful lightweight engine and in the Voodoo's case, that sublime, exotic sound! My Z has a balance, blueprinted short stroke 2.6L (280 bore, 240 stroke), cammed tri Weber setup now. I want lots more power but the high revving engine and sound are great. I hate to lose that. Also, with the LS, many are saying that the low end at slower speeds is simply too much when you get up in the power levels. This seems like the perfect balance. A true sports car engine that loves to wind up. And with the VVT and 4 valve heads, you can have the smooth bottom end and still keep the high power levels.

 

So, after reviewing the dimensions I appears with the Coyote, that it is tight but doable on the width. I'll likely have to make headers but will probably want to do that anyway. I may be able to modify some shorties for now and do long tubes later. The alternator and A/C might cause issues, hard to tell on that.

 

With the Voodoo, time will tell. They do plan to offer it as a crate. It may be a while before that is available. Hopefully the Voodoo will keep a standard Modular bellhousing pattern. Don't know if I would trust the 3160 and should have a T56 Magnum in a week or so anyway. They are rated to handle the RPM for shifting.

 

Anyone have any more current info on the Voodoo or more knowledge/suggestions on the Coyote? Any threads I am missing? I think I am in for this route. Will they cruise at say 1500RPM at 60MPH? My LS does that pushing a 5500lb. rig on 37" mud tires quite nicely. Really helps with comfort and mileage. But, stand on it and drop two gears and the fun starts! A 2300-2500lb. Z should be easy to push along by comparison.

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JustinOlson    13

I've been comparing 3D models of both the LS3 and the Coyote. From my initial analysis I am finding that the oil pan is too deep 6.8" deep from the rails or 9.95" from the crank center line. A shorter oil pan and pickup will be necessary. The overall width will fit between the strut towers. Factory exhaust manifolds likely wont work.Looks like the alternator will be a tight fit as its close to the frame rail. I need to do more modeling of the S30 engine bay to go further with this. The overall length is nearly identical to the LS3 with the Coyote has an advantage where the LS3 water pump protrudes.

 

Shorter oil pan options:

Moroso 20570  Depth: 4.5"

Champ CP4700  Depth: 4.5"

Canton 15-736  Depth: 5.0"

 

2zohkrs.jpg

 

24v5o4w.jpg

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Yeah, grabcad is cool when the models are accurate. Props to getting the Coyote interest rolling again.  They're getting more and more plentiful and more and more affordable as 5.0 trucks / vans start hitting the wrecking yards.  What program are you using?  I found an online free program called 'OnShape' that's been serving me well for my 4.6DOHC manifold concept work.

 

One thing to remember on 'overall width' measurements is often the wide part is located somewhere you don't care about.  Ie, when I switched from the SOHC to the DOHC 4.6, I have almost the same shock tower clearances, as the wide part (cam chain centerline) was in front of the shock towers by a few inches. Widths found online show ~26 for the SOHC and ~29 for the DOHC, and I had NO problem fitting the engine in the chassis.  Well...no sheetmetal work was required anyways to get things to fit, besides removing the old crossmember mounted engine mount. 

Edited by yellowoctupus

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JustinOlson    13

I've been doing a lot of research on the coyote platform over on yellowbullet in terms of the strength of the block in turbo applications. I've been up in the air between doing a aluminum 5.3L LS motor and the coyote. Seems the LS is good for about 1200whp before head lift becomes and issue on the 4 bolt heads and people start cracking sleeves. At this point you move to an aftermarket 6 bolt block and heads. Aluminum block options in this realm are $$$. The alternative at this level is a coyote with a sleeved block and factory heads. A sleeved Coyote block is ~3k+the block itself which isn't cheap by any means. You do get to retain the factory heads that provide enough clamping force and flow. Its a bit unknown how reliable they are up at the 1200-1500whp level. I'm going to wait and watch the aftermarket sort out the issues and get the recipe down before I dip my toe into a turbo build. What I do plan on doing in the mean time is swapping a 2011-2012 F150 into my 240z. Not sure what transmission I'll back it with at this point. 

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FLC    1

I may be taking the plunge on this new coyote motor thing. A guy has a wrecked 2011 mustang with a good engine and wants to buy just my 2012 body so he's buying/trading with me and we're keeping drivetrains so i'll have a complete coyote setup with no home. and being the generous person i am i would be willing to shelter this in my 240z. This is not all set in stone yet because i also have a 66 mustang coupe i could put it in but it is a pretty big project and i don't think i want to tackle this just now so we'll see.

 

 

 i cant remember were i got my number so it could of just been a typo idk

 

This is where i would start the build if i did http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/112621-starting-new-project-73/

I would try to get out of it as cheap as possible because i got a lot of other stuff going on, so go ahead and let the hate fly! But i have already spent a ton of money to restore this car to better than original condition and have everything i need to complete it although i never intended it to be a v8 car. you can see what ive done so far

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Yep, Dropping one in a coupe means no more shock towers!  That's was the exact reason I had the Mod motors in my Z.  Brought home a 4.6 SOHC naively thinking it would just drop into our '65.  Remember, the 'width' dimensions given on charts etc are normally at the widest part of the engine, ie the cam bump-outs on my DOHC.  In my engine bay, they sit just in front of the shock towers, so the width was easy for me.  Well... relatively easy anyways. 

 

 

so go ahead and let the hate fly

 

Honestly no idea why you'd say that on this forum.  Get your hate the purist/restoration forums, not HybridZ.  We've been waiting for a while for a Coyote swap.  Or even for the other Mod motor guys to finish up their swaps.....

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I still don't think you would find much hate.

 

You can always add those parts as needed, I think you would only find a problem with that if you said you planned on tracking-daily driving-drifting-racing in a car with a 400+hp motor and stock R180 differential and stub axles. Then a bit of caution would probably be advised just so you don't close the roads or the track when one of the wheels fall off. 

 

It would be a shame to just putt around town when it could be quite potent. Those new mustang motors have quite a bit of pick up and go.

 

Now if you install the motor with a roll of duct tape and some wood screws, I think someone might want to have a word with you.

Edited by seattlejester

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FLC    1

Now if you install the motor with a roll of duct tape and some wood screws, I think someone might want to have a word with you.

 

Heck yea that's my kinda build! Headed to Wal-Mart to get the camo kind now!

Edited by FLC

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This was my preferred swap, I would still love to do this swap but I ended up going LS. The cost of the LS swap is so very cheap and everything is documented for swapping the motor into pretty much anything. The 2014 GT have the Boss 302 rods and are much stronger. They can make 750 whp on mild boost and still be reliable.

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How much are you interfering by?  I know you had some CAD models you were playing with, possibly the easiest (to keep from making custom alternator mounts etc) might be to just notch the frame rail.  It's not handling any serious loads in front of the shock towers, so you should be fine to notcn and of course refill the notched hole.  Or, remember you can flip alternators around and run them backwards, ie, the 'back' of the alternator could face the radiator, which vastly opens up your mounting scenarios.  Additionally, did you check the truck/van vs. car belt routings?  On SBF's they're vastly different, not sure on the OHCs, as I've only used car engines.

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