ArchetypeDatsun Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) @frpcraig would you ever consider doing other Datsun's? I'm on Ratsun.net forum and I think Z guys there as well as other Datsun guys would totally love it. We use to have a guy that used to make carbon fiber & fiberglass parts for 510's his name was Dave Paré unfortunately he is no longer with us and don't know who was suppose to take over his shop to keep the products alive! Edited March 16, 2012 by 280zx@541 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 We get asked all the time for parts for various cars. As you can probably gather it takes a lot of time and money to make production moulds for any part, this isn't a problem if you have a certain amount of sales from the moulds forecast before you start. The 280ZX doors have come up in the past so we may look in to it but again it is down to projected sales. 280ZX@541 it is the same story.....I like the 510, ( I like most Datsuns) but I don't know if it would be economically viable to make moulds??? Gollum it sounds like all your different states have different laws concerning this??? If they could get some legislation as you mentioned to simplify it across your whole country that would be beneficial to everyone concerned I would have thought.(thanks for the link). C: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Is there a rear subframe? Have you considered building a full roller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes, the SB100 is a pipe dream... The Federal Issuance of post-dated VIN's probably won't happen in my lifetime. Certified specialty manufacturers (Carrol Shelby...) does some things based on old VIN Records..but... Really the way to do it is bring the part in just as that: a part. Likely its cheapest as far as customs duties will be, then the patchwork of individual states registration rules would come into play for construction. Once it's registered in one place, it's reciprocal across the nation. Like importing into Belgium, registering in Ireland then crossing the border and going into the UK proper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 My friend is looking into it full time now with regards to importing, I will keep you posted when I have news.. stony.... excuse my question (I am English!!) what is a full roller??? There is no need for a rear subframe in steel if that was your question??? The rear chassis rails and floor pan are copied from the steel shell(shape wise,externally) but heavily reinforced in frp internally. An example is ...we have been asked about the frp rear strut tops, without any strut bracing or load plates attached to the rear struts the calcs show you would need upwards of 4000kg loading to 'punch through' the strut tops. You can basically 'bolt on' all your oe parts in a weekend and have a rolling shell. C: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 A roller is exactly that a shell with a basic suspension installed so it could be pushed around. SO if i understand you...a person could buy a shell, and a front sub-frame. Then take a stock 240Z and pull all drivetrain parts off and install them in the fiberglass chassis? Are all the bolt on locations drilled and ready or is some assembly required ;> this sounds like an awesome deal. There is no way i could do it now BUT i still would be interested in shipping for a shell and front subframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 You have hit the nail on the head stony. You can't really make the car foreward of the bulkhead/firewall out of FRP hence the steel subframe but the rear of the car is all FRP. There are little bumps on the moulds which end up as little dents on the car in the correct places so it is easy to drill off to mount oe parts. We don't drill them off here in case aftermarket parts are to be fitted which may have holes to be drilled in different areas. Like I mentioned anyone with some basic skills, ie if you can unbolt your existing running gear and bolt it back up, it's exactly the same with the FRP shell. So you buy one of these...... Strip all the parts you need and recon them, then bolt them on to this..... Over here the cars are rare and good condition ones even more hard to find. What we do have is an abundance of L series motors and mechanicals with no car left for them to go in due to rot! If you can source a scrap z then your'e good to go. Try not to think of it as a 'kit car'. I think of a kit car as a vw beetle for example that someone sticks a fiberglass version of a Porshe on top. These are actual cars, just made from a different material. On another note I have been asked for pics of the front spoilers we do. We make 3 types at the minute........... Cheers Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yes, the SB100 is a pipe dream... The Federal Issuance of post-dated VIN's probably won't happen in my lifetime. Certified specialty manufacturers (Carrol Shelby...) does some things based on old VIN Records..but... I've talked with one, if not maybe the only/main guy, who's building the "new" cobras that are basically just a superperformance kit that's professionally built and then sold as a complete with a Shelby VIN and a nice Shelby certified logo on it. He was very open about talking and didn't mind that I soaked up a good hour of his time or so. The way they're registering them in CA is through the SB100 still. The only difference is that instead of the state giving the VIN number like they'll do if you don't have a VIN already, is they use the Shelby plate supplied VIN. This isn't any different than how FFR supplies a serial number and you can use that if your state requires it, or you can have FFR leave it blank and you can punch your own number once the state as "ok'ed". The Shelby builder told me first hand, that he just walks the customer through the SB100 process. It's still up to the customer to go to the DMV and get the SB100 and to have all the correct paperwork, which Shelby helps with. The really scary thing about all this, is that according to the fine print of the law, that's illegal. You can only use the SB100 for a custom built car that was NOT built by a company, and it's very difficult for a project to get a SB100 if it's changed hands because you're supposed to be suppyling information (receipts, build logs, etc) from YOU building YOUR custom, because that's what the law is for.... All in all, the state by state laws are all a joke and it's almost humorous that even Shelby is going through such loopholes like everyone else has to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The SB100 Allotment of cars is expired in about 15 minutes after the first DMV Office opens each year. They're all Cobra Guys. I know people who have tried for over 5 years to get an SB100 registration and they're gone before you even start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The SB100 Allotment of cars is expired in about 15 minutes after the first DMV Office opens each year. They're all Cobra Guys. I know people who have tried for over 5 years to get an SB100 registration and they're gone before you even start! That was true. That hasn't been the case the last two years now. Last year the SB100's lasted several MONTHS... Projects have really slowed down with the economy, making RIGHT NOW the time to finish a ground up and getting a SB100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'd like to see more triangles in this subframe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 dude, i just filled the cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi Trevor, that photo is of the 1st proto to see if the idea would work, Picture below is what we make now. Cheers Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Hi Trevor, that photo is of the 1st proto to see if the idea would work, Picture below is what we make now. Cheers Craig Hi Craig, Since these are my first comments in this thread let me start by saying it's absolutely wonderful what you are doing and the quality appears top notch. What a huge endevor. Most guys here try to make a few simple parts to sell and fail at that. I solute you. Makes lots of money and set up an operation this side of the pond. Now, on Trevor's comment: While your design has been gusseted from the prototype it still is basicly a series of boxes. A few, even relatively small section, tubes triangulating those boxes would add a great deal of resistance to bending to the entire sub-structure. This would be a small weight penalty in exchange for much greater strength. Edited March 23, 2012 by Dan Juday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 That was true. That hasn't been the case the last two years now. Last year the SB100's lasted several MONTHS... Projects have really slowed down with the economy, making RIGHT NOW the time to finish a ground up and getting a SB100. Even before the economy slumped it wasn't that bad, "expired in about 15 minutes after the first DMV Office opens each year". Five or six years ago when I did the motor swap on Steve Cameron's TomahawkZ I warned him to get to the DMV before they open and stand in line with all the other gear heads on the first day of the year. He ignored me and wondered in on the 4 th or 5th of January and walked out with a number and an application. The whole process took him three or four visits and his car was registered and legal. Everybodys DMV experiance varies, but the SB100 applications are on a central statewide system so reguardless of whether you are a SoCal or NorCal guy your chances of getting a number are the same. The fact that these specialty contruction registrations are not being swept up in the first hour is actually a sad comment on our sick obsession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhansen Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I did not locate a price for the shell and front frame, not including freight or taxes. Is that price established? Very cool. Edited March 23, 2012 by bhansen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks for the nice comments Dan, you are right of course with regard to the subframe, although we as the builders have to decide at what point we 'stop'. Our idea was to build the subframe to a level that is geometrically correct (or as close as we can) that a reasonably competent customer could then modify to suit his or her application. The problem we have is everyone seems to want something different. Any suggestions though feel free to shout out, that's part of the reason I am on this forum. bhansen, that is partially why we don't advertise the shell and subframe prices on the site. There is no 'cloak and dagger' reason just everyone wants something different. I am trying to work out say 2 different packages at the moment depending on how much the customer is capable of doing or wants to do, eg 1. All basic laminating complete and a 'bare' subframe. Customer completes to any spec he wants. 2. All basic laminating complete and a subframe with all the parts needed to fit the mechanicals for oe parts for road use. The other alternative is to supply drawings and dimensions for the basic subframe along with the shell and the customer gets it made up in his hometown. This would probably be more economical tbh. I'll work out some more accurate prices and post later this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well, that's good news on the traditional 20-Year historical BS with SB100 is better at the moment. Maybe it's time to get that Lambo registered in the back yard and skirt those regulations on compliance and emissions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280~Master Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Craig, This is a great advancement for the 240Z. I like what you are doing and think its a very wonderful idea. I have a few questions for you though. 1. What year 240Z is the mold made from? 2. About how long would it take to build a full shell. 3. Are you ready for orders or still in a prototype stage? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks John, the moulds were made off a 1972 240Z. The shell, all the panels takes about 6 to 8 weeks as I make these myself. Stephen from FRP Auto makes the subframe during this time. Yes we are able to build cars to order no problem, the only issue is trying to gauge what people want out of the subframe design, as I have mentioned most people seem to want different things?? Cheers Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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