m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I posted this thread here a couple days ago, only to have it instantly moved to some castaway "welding/fabricatoin" forum under the FAQ's section where it was the only topic. I messaged an admin about having it moved back with no reply, so I've posted it back. My apologies if this is an issue. Like many S130's mine, is succumbing to corrosion after almost 3 decades. The main culprit was a seam in the passenger side footwell that rusted out allowing water to pour in under the carpet when driving in the rain. She's now in pretty rough shape, but after paying a good chunk to move it from Winnipeg to St. John's Newfoundland with myself, It would be a shame and waste of money to toss the chassis, not to mention I have some history with the car. Anyways I've been amassing a small collection of metal working tools, along with a 110v Lincoln mig. I feel I'm compentent enough with the welder, however the rest of my fab skills are...well untested at this point. Also, all the work will be out of sight, so it doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to works, and here's how it looks on the outside shortly before going into winter storage: Anyways, the floors seem more or less self explanatory, but I've have yet to dig in. My bigger concern are the frame rails though. At first I didn't think it was necessary, despite them being quite dented. Once I pulled up the carpet I fund a nice gaping hole above the frame rail which had been letting water in. This makes sense, as previously, parking with the rear higher than the front resulted in a nice dribble of rust water which made a nice mess of my old apartment parking lot. Here's a rough shot of the hole over the frame rail: Another trouble spot is the rear seat foot well. Here's a pic: I've only had about 2 hours to tear into the car so far, so I'm not too sure what I'm looking at, but those bolts sticking through at the top of the photo wouldn't be from the rear x-member would they? Anyways, the main purpose of the thread was how to go about repairing frame rails without tweaking the chassis. I've seen people weld cross bars into the door jambs, but I'd prefer not to, just to preserve the paint, and avoid restricting access to the work area. I was thinking about scattering some RV jacks around to hold everything in place before cutting, but I could see that restricting access as well. As for the actual frame rail replacement, I planned to replace the section under the seat with some rectangular tube (size and thickness to be determined). The front where it approaches the x-member seems a kind of daunting, but my plan at this point is just to trace templates from what's there, and piece together the complex shape from the cuttings of sheet metal. Any criticism, advice, experience, photos and links would be extremely appreciated, and with that, I'll leave some photos of what I'm up against. PS: This will happening at the same time as an L28ET swap, So engine will be out allowing me access to the rusty frames rails, battery area, and inner fenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Find a hood or something off an old truck or something (a lot cheaper than buying metal) and start cutting and bending. Im curently doing that ( old hood off my 77 chev) if you just alternate small tacks around the pan until its welded then hit it with some seam sealer you shouldnt tweak the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Harmon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) You can fab up some replacement rails wit 11/2 X 3 rectangular tubing.It will not be as it was originally but will be stronger.I am currently doing it to an 82.I did opt for new sheet metal from a local metal shop.Just tie the new frame rails into what is left of the good original.You may have to get creative depending on how much damage you have. Edited March 8, 2012 by Ernest Harmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(goldfish) Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 My understanding is there is not to much strength in the "frame rails", It's mostly the rockers and tranny tunnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I've got 4 panels from a big old oil furnace that should cover me for a lot of the metal. I thought I would at least have to replace the entire passenger side floor, but it looks like I may be able to just use some (rather large) patch pieces, although I think it may be easiest to get at the frame rails with the floor out anyways. As for a metal shaping tools, I've picked up a 5kg anvil, still need to get a hammer and dolly, and I see Princess Auto has a 36" bench top press brake for $70 that seems like it might be a good investment. Anything critical I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Frame rails are are a joke, cant even jack on them just a sacraficial part to drag on things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Are they negligible enough structural7 that I shouldn't be concerned about the frame getting tweaked while being replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just weld small spots in alternating sides and it should be fine. There just sheet metal same as the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Harmon Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) When you get into them the "frame rails"will make you wonder.There really is not much to them.They are more like floor pan stiffeners.I raised my car in the front from under the cross member and set the front of the car on a pair of ramps with solid cap blocks under them.Raised the rear by the diff housing and supported it the same way.Cut out what needed cut out and replaced it.I am working on the passenger side now.The frame rails do attach to some pretty good metal at the kick up at the toe boards.If you go the tubing route you will need to address the opening left at this transition when the original rails are removed if you have to go that far forward.From the pictures you posted you need to go that far.Your problem looks almost exactly like mine.Don't feel bad I have an 81 turbo that has the same issues.It will be next to go under the knife. Edited March 9, 2012 by Ernest Harmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 When you get into them the "frame rails"will make you wonder.There really is not much to them.They are more like floor pan stiffeners.I raised my car in the front from under the cross member and set the front of the car on a pair of ramps with solid cap blocks under them.Raised the rear by the diff housing and supported it the same way.Cut out what needed cut out and replaced it.I am working on the passenger side now.The frame rails do attach to some pretty good metal at the kick up at the toe boards.If you go the tubing route you will need to address the opening left at this transition when the original rails are removed if you have to go that far forward.From the pictures you posted you need to go that far.Your problem looks almost exactly like mine.Don't feel bad I have an 81 turbo that has the same issues.It will be next to go under the knife. Good to here I'm not the only one. You wouldn't happen to have any photos or documentation? At the moment I don't really know what my approach is gonna be. I figure it should make sense once I start cutting. Is your floor gone all along the rockers? Mine certainly is and I wasn't sure the proper approach to welding them in. I was thinking I'd just flare the edges of the new floor pan up about 3/4" or so and rosette weld it first and maybe stitch a bead along the top. As for the frame rails if nothing else it would be an opportunity to gain some ground clearance, and maybe offer a slight bit of chassis stiffing (would love to do more of this if there's some easy places to reinforce). As you can see from the frame rail shot about with a 2x6 under it, there's only about 3 inches ground clearance beneath the rails, and I would like to go lower now that I've got some 16x8 0 offset wheels, which shouldn't rub the coils like the 225's on stock wheels do. The front of the frame rails has me pretty lost though. Also the pretty much everything in front of the rad support is gone (basically what the air damn attaches to, but I figure if I can set the air dam in place, I can work back from the mounting points, it just won't look original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 You should swap everything into the 83 2+2 sitting beside my house. No rust anywhere on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 You should swap everything into the 83 2+2 sitting beside my house. No rust anywhere on it. Haha Bernard don't forget I've been living in Newfoundland for well over a year now And I'm not sure that I want to spend another fortune shipping a car from Winnipeg. Plus I'm keeping an eye out for a rough s30 to build into a Targa rally car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Ill take it!! Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADY280 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 jeez i was about to say i have an 82 california car with restored body for sale, but im out here in bc!! (calvin cough cough) my 79 had the same if not worse floors. i made templates of the parts and made new ones. that to say i also made jacking points with thicker steel and a flatter floor as well. i had to do so many areas on the floor all the way from the firewal to the rear. took me 13 months of nights to get it done. i learned lots on the way, but for the 82 resto i had a rotiserie for it and made life very very easy. was able to strip and paint without gunk in my eyes and without a sore neck and back. just follow the threads here on how to build them from 2 ghetto engine stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 jeez i was about to say i have an 82 california car with restored body for sale, but im out here in bc!! (calvin cough cough) my 79 had the same if not worse floors. i made templates of the parts and made new ones. that to say i also made jacking points with thicker steel and a flatter floor as well. i had to do so many areas on the floor all the way from the firewal to the rear. took me 13 months of nights to get it done. i learned lots on the way, but for the 82 resto i had a rotiserie for it and made life very very easy. was able to strip and paint without gunk in my eyes and without a sore neck and back. just follow the threads here on how to build them from 2 ghetto engine stands Did you happen to take any pics? Did you do anything to the frame rails? I'd love to put the car on a rotisserie, but I'd like to leave the car as intact as possible, I don't have the space. I would imagine the floors can be dealt with almost completely from above, other than running a bead along the frame rails, and maybe rockers. my plan is to get some big (5 ton or so) jackstands and get the car in the air. Hopefully it shouldn't be too bad working on a creeper. Anyways, I got another weekend to tear the car down. Other than the engine, this should be the bulk of the teardown. The driver's was worse than I had anticipated with a pretty rotten footwell, however it looks alright behind "seat beam". On the bright side, the structural members seem to be alright other than some rust holes in the underside of the inner fenders. pics: The not so structural part of the driver's side inner fender is pretty rough. You can see where someone (likely the used car lot I bought it from) taped over a rust hole and undercoated it: Another area in pretty rough shape is the panel that holds the tow hook. Now's a good opportunity reinforce it and maybe add one of those oh-so-trendy billet tow hooks: And some various floor pictures: All in all it feels like a daunting task, but it's a relief that shouldn't be dealing with much in the way of structural repairs, and everything is out of site. Next time I start cutting! Unfortunately this is a weekend only project as the shop is about 45 mins from town, and until the snow melts I have to hike in (with tools) about 15mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADY280 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I have pix somewhere but I think they are on glossy not digital. The frame rails are the hard part but before you cut it all out make some templates of the original. Just cardboard taped together. Using a piece of rectangular tubing shaped to the floor pan would work the best and be very strong to jack from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Forgot to mention, I'm at the painfull point of removing the sound deadening. I didn't have much luck searching, but I seem to recall member recommending dry ice to remove. I presume just hold the dry ice to it, then chisel away? I spent a good while with a hammer and wide slot head screwdriver. I didn't get to far, and there was still a lot of gunk left over. Anyone have some insight on this task? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Take a block of dry ice, smash it up and put the crushed ice all over the tar, wait 10-15 min and whack it with a soft mallet or use a plastic chisel. I did my whole car in 40 min. Then used the leftover dry ice to start on my friends 240sx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'll second the dry ice trick. I used the block though - never thought of smashing it up. Rubber mallet and a slotted screw driver and it comes up in huge chunks. I don't want to be a downer but did you think of getting a shell from somewhere? You realize rust is like an iceberg in these cars..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Looks like I'll give the dry ice a shot this weekend hopefully. Does it take the tar right of the paint, or does it leave a film behind? I went at it for a while with a hammer and slothead screwdriver and everything that came off left a tar film behind. Hopefully that be ground off easily enough. As for picking up a new shell, it would be nice, but I've already spent a good chunk on moving the car with me, and now that I'm living on the easternmost part of the easternmost island in North America, shipping, even just from the main land costs a fortune. Also I've already spent a good chunk on fab tools, so it's too late to turn back now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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