Guest Anonymous Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Wow, it feels like ages since I've been here! It's good to see some of the usual suspects are still regularly posting. A lot has happened since the last time I checked out this board. The 240Z project has gone on the backburner since I've returned to school. The L28et looks like a no-go, getting a custom turbo manifold built is gonna cost more than I expected, the custom turbo combo is big $ I don't have and I can't even dream about getting a stand-alone computer. I have run into a Ford 351W. Looks fairly cheap and sifting through the posts, it appears as a few others are going this route. I just need to clarify one thing though. I hear a lot of the Ford guys talking about a 393. Now is a 393 a stroked 351w or is it an entirely different block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene_w Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Originally posted by sopdadope:Now is a 393 a stroked 351w or is it an entirely different block? A 393 is a stroked 351W. You can buy the crank from Summit. I think you just use the crank and 302 pistons (302 pistons are not as tall). Supposedly just bolts right in from what I hear. Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 Wait a minute. you can get a Ford 393 stroker out of 351 Winsdor with a Summitt stroker crank and 302 pistons sounds too easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 It is that easy. The only fly in the ointment, so to speak, is getting the correct 302 pistons to match the 351W heads for a good compression ratio since 351W heads have chambers from 61 to 70 cc, depending on year and model truck/car the motor was installed in. www.kb-silvolite.com has a compression calculator. The stock 351W heads are rather inferior in flow rates. I'd suggest an aftermarket set or, at the very least, a set of GT-40P's to feed that size engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I better be on the look out for a 351 Winsdor if they are that easy to stroke to 393 Cubic inches.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Great info, thanks guys. The cleveland 4v heads would be great on a stroker 351w block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Putting Cleveland heads on a 393 stroker opens up a whole nuther can of worms as there is no readily available canted-valve crown piston with the correct compression height. The post-'70 302 SBF has a piston compression height of 1.60"-1.605" while the 351C's piston is 1.65"-1.67". Another thing is the custom intake or adapter plates and block/head machining to correct the water jacket differences. By the time you spend the money for 4V heads and the parts and machine work to make them fit, you could very easily spend more than what the best set of aftermarket aluminum Windsor heads would cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 If an easy 393 cid rocks your boat, how about an even less expensive 408 cid? Get a 400V8 (Ford, not Chevy) crank and take it to a machine shop to have the mains' thrust areas machined and snout shortened to duplicate the 351W's crank and drop it in with a set of 351W rods modified for .927" pin bores (.015" larger) and a set +.030" Chevy 350V8 pistons. (+.040" will get you 410cid and +.060" will get you 414cid) Speed-Pro's 21cc D-cup "turbo" piston will give you approx. 9.5-10:1 compression while Silvolite's 29cc dish-tops will drop it down to just below 9:1. (This is with a post-'70 block and 64-66cc heads.) The block will require some grinding for rod bolt clearance and check the crank counter weights to be sure the piston skirts clear at BDC. Shorten the pistons, not grind the counterweights, if clearance is needed. If you really wanna get froggy, you can offset grind the crank for Ford 300cid 6-cyl. rods and go even bigger. There are several 427cid stroker kits available for the 351W and supposedly there is someone making a 4.5" stroke crank (or is about to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 If the 412 cid and all the work you mentioned is cheaper than just buying a crank and some pistons, then this must be one expensive crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I meant 408 cid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 The 393 crank typically runs $550 to $700 for a cast version, depending on the source; much higher if you are looking for a forged unit. The machine work on the 400V8 crank isn't that expensive since chances are you're going to have to have the journals turned anyway. The aftermarket 4" stroker cranks usually have SBC rod journals and force you to buy a set of aftermarket rods and custom stroker pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 427 Ford is the Magic number!!! In a small block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 sopdadope, I found some info from Scat that might interest you if you want to build a Cleveland head 393ci Windsor. Seems you can order a 3.85" crank with BB Chevy rod journals and use stock length Chevy rods bushed for floating .927" (SB Chevy) pins and install a set of Keith Black 372 W/C pistons (#KB285 or #KB286). This should give you zero piston to deck height with a post-'70 9.50" 351W block; but be careful with the compression ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Quantrex, thanks for all the info. I'd like to adapt the 393 stroker to EFI from a 5.0. Is this plug and play or is there something I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene_w Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Originally posted by sopdadope:Quantrex, thanks for all the info. I'd like to adapt the 393 stroker to EFI from a 5.0. Is this plug and play or is there something I'm missing? Not much of a problem there. Firing order is the same between 351w and 5.0 (earlier 302 was different). The only problem you will have is that the lower EFI intake manifold won't bolt up. The 351 has a taller deck height, requiring a wider manifold. I think you can get a lower gt40 or cobra for a 351 from Ford Motorsport. For that matter, you can spend just slightly more and get a full upper and lower from trickflow. I think theirs runs a little over $500 for the entire upper and lower intake. Electronics wise, you should be set to go. You might want to consider a larger throttle body, MAF, and injectors to match the higher flow of a 351, especially if you build it up. All the standard mustang upgrades all apply. Like I said, only difference is lower intake manifold. Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Price Motorsports makes adapters to use 302-width intakes on the 351W, but I'd wonder if the runner and plenum size wouldn't limit breathing on the bigger motor. I'd invest in a 351W specific manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Quantrex, I'd been eyeing the Trick Flow upper and lower intake for some time now but I didn't know they were $500 for both. That sounds too good be true!! Instead of running the 5.0 ECU, I'm leaning towards SDS so as to keep my options open down the road (a 6PSI Vortech is really, really attractive). I have an 85mm throttle body from an Infiniti Q45, I bought it along time ago for an SR20DE project that never took off. This TB is commonly used in high-hp import applications but I wonder if it'd be good for the 351W? It has a built-in throttle position sensor and IMO is of better quality than BBK. I'd have to port the inlet of upper intake but would this hurt the flow of the intake? Here's a pic of the TB off of ebay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene_w Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I just looked it up, and summit carries the Trickflow upper and lower intake for $549 (currently on backorder). See http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=23079&view=2047&media=2 . I imagine the throttle body would do great on the 351. I'm not sure if you'd have to do much to the trickflow intake or not. I seem to recall you used to be able to get an 85mm throttle body from Ford. If you do have to modify the intake, I'm sure it will work great, provided you don't introduce any rough edges or anything. If you bore it out, use a grinder or something to make a smooth transition from the end of your bore to the intake plenum to make it as smooth a transition as possible. I think your biggest issues would be first getting the throttle body to bolt up, second getting the throttle cable to hook up, and third adapting the throttle position sensor. You might measure the resistance on the terminals of both over the entire range of rotation. If you're lucky, they'll match and then it's simply an issue of splicing the ford plug onto the tps. Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 GeneW, The Q45 throttle looks to have the same bolt pattern as a BBK 85mm except the bores might be slightly bigger. In any case, tapping new threads would be a quick fix. IMO I'd be guilty if I spent $300 for a TB when there are OEM TB's that get the same job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 I also have another concern. It's a pretty big one. Down the road, say in a year or so, I'd like to S/C the car. Not much boost, a Vortech@5PSI. Is it dangerous to run forced induction on a stroker motor with high compression? BTW, this a '74 block with 7.5" deck height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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