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johnc

HybridZ Is Not Automotive 101

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I filled out my About me tab, just for you Miles. I just had an suggestion, I am not trying to suggest to turn this site into something that represents eliteism, more of a "are you a person who can read and comprehend logical thought" "are you a spammer" and why not make their essay their about me tab, so no one has to wonder who a person is. If you read some of my previous post then you know that I joined this site when I was in high school, and I posted things that I am not proud of now. I agree lock this thread

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IIRC, the turbo forum had something similar to the above concept. I had to post in the "about me and my build" thread which was supposedly reviewed by admins before I was allowed to post in the other forums. I thought it was a good idea. My most recent frustration was a post in the v8 forum about a carb choke. The poster just wanted to be handed information. Did not appear to know the difference between manual and electric choke etc. I am 29 so I may be just slightly older than the newest wave of "entitlement" youngsters, but It has gotten out of hand. I am 100% behind JohnC on this one.

 

There is SO much valuable information on this site, and to be able to have an archive like this that isn't diluted by idiot posts is priceless. I am not without a couple of dumb questions, and mostly regretted them as soon as I went back and read them. All you have to do is go look at some of the other z websites to really appreciate the members and admins of this forum.

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That assumes they will be honest.

 

Then again, some jackarses forget that some of us travel, and actually try to MEET other members... I've called more than one out on BS they've posted on boards here and elsewhere. It's amazing how face to face people turn into "less" confident and "less" skilled. Real like. Ain't it a byatch!

 

Mike

Even better calling them out for a field calibration on a torque wrench, and when they realise whou you actually ARE ("uh, ahhh, is this Tony D?") and the caller I.D. From your hotel has not only the correct area code, but the same PREFIX...

 

Oh, yeah! I love the guys who claim "you're one of those guys!" But like someone said at an MSA event a few years ago: "Holy Sh*t! You REALLY DO talk like that face-to-face!" (At the same event someone came over to point out three youngsters scurrying away and said "Were some guys named (Gave Screen Names of three guys) supposed to meet up with you? They were like "Is that Tony D? He doesn't look like the photos on the Internet!" They had come to "set me straight, forcibly"... But decided, apparently I was somehow not fat, out of shape, and old as dirt (anybody who knows can testify I am!) and took to the hills without so much as an introduction! I think the last contact I'd had with any of them online was to give them my location during the show (260 Island) and say "after you kick my arse, I will buy you a beer!"

 

Maybe I should have offered a shot, some people don't like beer...I'm so insensitive.

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Well its a sign of the times. That's like saying you prefer to have your speedometer set via resistors rather than having a fancy self-calibrating one. While I understand and respect the "ITS NOT FAIR, 'CAUSE IN MY DAY," argument I think we should all be MORE humbled by the fact that we have encyclopedias at our fingertips. No longer do you have to break your back, proverbially of course.

Missing the point, totally. I don't think it's a generational thing, but there IS a component common in all people complaining about achieves or holders of knowledge and those that don't yet have it: drive and desire.

 

If you want information, do not make out like you're ENTITLED to it!

 

I think Randy77ZT makes a valid point, but neglects one facet of those days: you STILL had to ASK SOMEONE!

The scene in Christine where the guy lets Arnie Cunningham work on the car in his shop is a good example. The guy had been through the war (literally) and wanted to help the kid... But he wanted the young punk to know UP FRONT what the rules were...and as long as he abided by them, he could be very generous.

 

Arnie, as demonised as Steven King tried to make him showed due deference because he realised without that old man and his shop, he would never get his dream going (demonic possession feats of mechanical rejuvenation notwithstanding.)

 

If you think you will get knowledge without breaking your back, without toil, without hassle...

All I can say is you aren't dedicated, don't have the drive, and likely won't finish the project. Or if you o, it won't be he best it old be...a 12 second car with all the same parts as another seemingly identical car that turns 9's.

 

If you have drive, and a thirst for learning, you WILL break your back getting every bit f information you can. My nephew runs a 9second Malibu... People continually bug him for the tricks he employs... He routinely blows them off. Why? He didn't get spark plugs thrown at his head. He didn't work LOF for a year till an opening in heavy overhaul opened up.

 

No, he was a GenX or Y kid, grew up with computers. The reason he acts just like like those grizzled old codgers? His words were prophetic:

 

"I didn't do anything special. I asked a lot of questions, watched what other guys did, and I spent every single possible second I could researching everything I could find on he Internet about how to do this! It's not hard, it just takes time busting your a$$ learning everything you can. I tell them 'look on the Internet, all the information is out there!' And they get all P.O. at me or not spilling 3,000 hours research at nights, on weekends, at work, into a 15 minute magic formula to go 9 seconds in a Malibu! I busted my ass, it's not hard, but you have to WORK for it--it's all out here, you just have to look!"

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"I didn't do anything special. I asked a lot of questions, watched what other guys did, and I spent every single possible second I could researching everything I could find on he Internet about how to do this! It's not hard, it just takes time busting your a$$ learning everything you can. I tell them 'look on the Internet, all the information is out there!' And they get all P.O. at me or not spilling 3,000 hours research at nights, on weekends, at work, into a 15 minute magic formula to go 9 seconds in a Malibu! I busted my ass, it's not hard, but you have to WORK for it--it's all out here, you just have to look!"

 

So true. One of my biggest frustrations is when I sit down and take 30 minutes, or much more sometimes, to write a post trying to help someone out, and then  few hours later they respond with something that makes me think they didn't even read it... This to me shows exactly what your nephew said. If people aren't willing to INVEST, with HARD WORD, to SPEND THE TIME to LEAN SOMETHING then even spoon feeding them simply doesn't work. There's no magic bullet and to let people think there is a magic bullet is just cruelty.

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So true. One of my biggest frustrations is when I sit down and take 30 minutes, or much more sometimes, to write a post trying to help someone out, and then  few hours later they respond with something that makes me think they didn't even read it... This to me shows exactly what your nephew said. If people aren't willing to INVEST, with HARD WORD, to SPEND THE TIME to LEAN SOMETHING then even spoon feeding them simply doesn't work. There's no magic bullet and to let people think there is a magic bullet is just cruelty.

Agreed 100%

 

Anything worth having never comes easy.

 

It's a labor of love. Some have it, others; don't.

 

 

And I mean c'mon...We live in the age of the internet....5 minutes and Google have answered near ALL my life's questions.

Edited by OldAndyAndTheSea

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The only other thing I'll add is this...

 

I "teach" people how to search complex queries using boolean logic at my customer site.  I also write technical documentation in support of the software applications our customers use in searching large data sets.  More often than not, the issue is how a person constructs their query.  Rather than asking "Why" nobody responded to your question, you might want to go back and look at the content, and what it is you're asking.  You may find that the answer was one or two search terms OFF from your intended search results.  All that said, there have been one or two times I've searched for data and found that there simply wasn't a "current" answer to it, because nobody else was doing what I was trying to do.

 

Mike

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My favourite at another forum was to click and paste the wannabe spooner's post DIRECTLY in the search box...

 

In those days, 9 out of 10 times the EXACT answer came up in the top ten hits.

 

I mean, what do you do with that?

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My favourite at another forum was to click and paste the wannabe spooner's post DIRECTLY in the search box...

 

In those days, 9 out of 10 times the EXACT answer came up in the top ten hits.

 

I mean, what do you do with that?

LOL, I remember one point when I was making several changes and trying to document some of it because I thought people might find it interesting.  Somebody wanted me to make one change at a time and dyno test each change so that _they_ could know which changes were most effective.  Do I look like the f-ing Underwriters Labratories??

 

That, or like Tony's nephew, people wanting to know exhausting details on "my setup" when there's no way in hell they are ever going to use any of the info, except maybe to mis-quote it later.

 

I'm dubious on the idea of requiring posting some sort of resume before people are allowed to post, though.  As others pointed out some will lie about their experience, and others will simply have an inflated notion of what they know (present company excluded of course! :P ).  

 

Also I'm not real keen about using what I do for a living as a reason that people should listen to me. If I can't put together a logical premise and defend it then that will come across quickly enough.  I don't pay close attention to Tony or John or Peter at PMC (to name a few) just because of what they've put in their profile - I pay attention to them because of the hundreds (or thousands) of well thought out and informative posts that they've made.  You don't have to watch for long to understand who is who.

Edited by TimZ

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Hey, I used info on your exhaust a lot in building my car!  I went a little different way, but still did side-exhaust.  What you did and the pictures you sent were super helpful - thanks!  I appreciated all the detail you provided.

No problem, and I'm glad it was useful to you!  

I don't mind helping out at all in most cases, but I guess I don't like the requests for the "list of parts", as though that was the big secret.  Like Tony said, there is no big secret, just a lot of work.  If its clear that you are going to use the info I'm glad to share, but this can often take a long time and a lot of effort to convey so I'm not so keen on sharing for bench racing purposes, if you know what I mean...

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What's in my profile?

 

JeffP is Underwriter's Lab... Especially when I'm around!

We way over tested the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX on the engine dyno, but the results were amazing!

Great!  Now I'll know where to send them the next time a request comes up! :P

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The510realm, a forum for the 510 crowd, has new members post an introduction before you can post at all. Admins look at your introduction draft and if it passes (very slack) requirements then it is posted in the forum for everyone to see. Then you can post new topics. Im a moderator at another forum. Each day without fail, there is something I do not like, a mistake, spam, etc. I was given the power to use my judgement in what I would tolerate. When it comes down to it, I let a good bit slide when it comes to new members. Sometimes I will just tell them to search, then lock the topic. Kind of like a public disgrace. I did that recently with a wheel fitment thread. Today someone asked where to buy a cheap timing light. Delete! Its tempting to hit the ban button, but I hadnt yet. If that guy asking how to shop for a timing light posts another stupid thread... He may be my first ban. If I used my instincts to ban and delete, hovering over the forums with an iron fist, I would greatly reduce the activity and likely be banned for being a forum Nazi. Very few new members are good additions. Eternally grouchy chest beaters. Too many religion and political comments are made by certain members that are not related. Agghk. Its a mess. Here its not so bad. Im no expert, but I have spent many years hands on type learning on different Z cars. Here I rarely post. If I do it is because I cannot find the exact info I wanted, want other peoples advice, or I am stuck and do not understand what I did wrong. I have to just accept the fact that Im going to look dumber than the old timers. At least Im not asking where to buy a cheap timing light.

Edited by Heroez

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I understand John's (and others) frustration. However I also agree that having the FAQs pinned in their respected sections (as it was at one point) may deter some of the newbie questions. Ultimately without a screening process there's really no way to keep lazy people from posting simple questions and hoping someone has the patience to answer. I have been trolling a highly technical site that I refer to as "non denominational" in that it doesn't cater to a make or model but rather just going fast. As I reference it, I have six posts there and have been a member since 2003, because it is one of the many outlets I use to gain knowledge. I was trolling this site for years before I thought I could start an intelligent conversation here, much less help someone else with their Z issues. 

 

But that's just me, there are (as we know) a crapton of people who are not willing to read and be humble and learn. Another point from a previous page that I believe holds water is if this is strictly a top end technical site then "which of the MSA airdams looks coolest" should get flamed on. John sees this site as a place where highly skilled and experienced people in and out of the industry can talk advanced tech. It is just that. But if we want to grow as a community (or continue to grow) there needs to be a buffer of tolerance for newbs and newbie type behavior. 

 

There is a rules section I remember reading that stated something to the effect of search before you ask... Perhaps putting it in the user agreement and suspending or banning people for offenses is in order? 

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I lurk waaaaaay more than I post here.  John can certainly be short and abrupt but his info is good.  I sense his frustration.  I have been a wrench for many years but am brand new to my 240z and probably ask some dumbass questions.  He's been a bit short with me when I do.  I'll take that.  There are other admins here who need to get the eff over their rediculous selves and cut the petty self-important crap.  He's not one.  Nothing wrong with a ground floor guy trying to keep the site going in the way it was intended.

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I lurk waaaaaay more than I post here.  John can certainly be short and abrupt but his info is good.  I sense his frustration.  I have been a wrench for many years but am brand new to my 240z and probably ask some dumbass questions.  He's been a bit short with me when I do.  I'll take that.  There are other admins here who need to get the eff over their rediculous selves and cut the petty self-important crap.  He's not one.  Nothing wrong with a ground floor guy trying to keep the site going in the way it was intended.

wesmc,

You will be shown the "eff" ing door here if you want to buck a moderator when asked politely to follow forum rules.

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Maybe, if newbies can't browse to the FAQ forum, the login system can be altered that the first 20 logins drop the first timers into the FAQ forums instead of the forum index?

 

Sort of a pointed reminder that there is a lot of info available to read before posting inane questions already answered in the FAQ section...

 

 

 

 

No idea how viable that is to code however.

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16 posts and you've come to this conclusion...  Interesting.

 

Here's the thing.  We created this site because we were hammered by the ZCAR community for "butchering" such "priceless treasures".  15 years later, we still have little patience for laziness, ignorance, and stupidity.  Some of us try to help, but honestly, sometimes when you know the info is out there, it gets tiring.

 

The comments about some of the mods are uncalled for.  If you have an issue with how a mod/admin has behaved, send a PM to John or Superdan.  Keep in mind that it takes a lot of effort to maintain a successful website.  These folks don't get paid for their efforts, and they do a damned good job.  They're also human and have bad days, just like you and I.  But honestly, 16 posts in?  Maybe you should post less and read more until you get the hang of it.

 

Mike "Retired co-founder" Kelly 

 

I lurk waaaaaay more than I post here.  John can certainly be short and abrupt but his info is good.  I sense his frustration.  I have been a wrench for many years but am brand new to my 240z and probably ask some dumbass questions.  He's been a bit short with me when I do.  I'll take that.  There are other admins here who need to get the eff over their rediculous selves and cut the petty self-important crap.  He's not one.  Nothing wrong with a ground floor guy trying to keep the site going in the way it was intended.

Edited by Mikelly

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Mike

Tony

Administrators

Founders

 

If, after 15 years, you are still disappointed  with the types of people who join the site, change the rules to what you think is neccessary to select people who are a good fit for your vision of the site. Just honestly state on the website marqee and in the rules what the criteria is for membership: professional/experienced car builders, automotive techs, mechanics, engineers etc.  Discourage all others not to apply for membership.

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I probably spend about 20x time searching Hybridz threadz than posting.  There should be a rating for Posts and Searches!

 

In truth, hasn't every single issue on a Z  been discussed 18 times over. Everything!

How much is really truly new?   Yet.. I read 10 threadz on the same damn thing and in between the lines, among the coal and fossils  I'll find a little diamond... that one little diamond. I'll cross refernce to what the FIAT guys are doing with Webers, or the Porsche guys with blowers and I might even see what the Suby guys are doing with R180s (but not likely).

 

In the aviation world we struggle on type-specific forums and groups to keep the quality up, yet run through enough new candidates to promote the best.

A forum called "Beechtalk" does a superb job of this.  VERY tight to the Terms of Use and zero tolerence to the decorum rules.

(Airplanes are aluminum so we have to be more gentle with each other.)

 

My problem is I have a WP, a veritible  "Mama's boy" and I want everyone to get along and have a good time like I am.  So I pick on CertainD members because I perceive them to be "mean", When they probably, most likely, by all means, (maybe) they aren't.  

 

But if we don't allow or or if we discourage posting of Old-Business there is a risk of squashing good information and new ideas and tricks and new angles on old problems which is the heart of Hybridz.

 

Tj

 

 

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The last two post have been perfect.  Why not just close the site to further postings of a tech nature.  Let people post builds/pics/events etc. and leave the rest along.  You will never be able to stop the 'newbie stupid questions'(your words not mine).  Another opinion might limiting tech posting  to the few senior members that seem to so annoyed by all of this.  Not a perfect world, this could make a majority of people happier. HybridZ library.

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