Jump to content
HybridZ
Guest Anonymous

2JZ-GTE Swap(better then RB26)

Recommended Posts

Granted, high-tech doesn't always mean better. But more valves and better flow is hard to argue with.

 

As far as Morgan's comment regarding "Machining mods" I have found nothing. Certainly I can verify that these engines have a deserved reputation for choking on head gaskets.. What I have found is that, depending on wear, they may need to have the gasket surface (primarily of the head, rarely of the block) machined to eliminate wear marks due to the gasket. There is then the issue off attaining a suitable finish (post machine-work) that is compatible with the steel (HKS) head gasket. IOWs, if the head is not worn, then the stock gasket can (and should be) replaced with a steel gasket and the head bolts torked to 70lbs (as opposed to the recommended factory 52lbs). There seems to be agreement that a properly (70lb) torked, steel gasket motor is very robust.

 

Certainly when dealing with a Junkyard motor, it is questionable. Most yards offer a 30day guarantee and this would seem sufficient to remove the head and verify whether it needs machining or not. I can find no details on how the J motor solves this gasket problem, but apparently it does. Also, no one seems to address the problem of attaining the proper "post milling" finish that would be compatible with the steel gasket. even though many sites seem to mention motors which have had their heads milled. Makes one appreciate all the more the wealth of info availabkle for the Z - low-tech engine and all... smile.gif

 

Still, I am intrigued. My plan up 'til now has been to (eventually) get a junkyard datsun L28t to swap in. At this point, I am widening my search to include a suitable Supra motor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

If you're looking at a non-l2x engine, then it's not a bolt-in swap. That being the case, why don't you look for a better drivetrain weight-wise that still makes the power?

Like, a vg30t perhaps? Dirt cheap, dead reliable, and plenty of power. You'll spend the money you save on initial cost on modifications though, so it'll probably even out in the long run. But you'll be left with a short v6(the lightest iron block v6 ever made as a matter of fact!) that is lighter than either straight-6 and also puts it's weight significantly farther rearwards.

 

 

------------------

Morgan

http://z31.com/~morgan/s30

http://carfiche.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

the 7mgte is a great engine

 

after you get the head milled flat

and use a hks mhg and arp bolts on the head its dead reliable

 

the head gasket is caused by a toyota's head gasket not the engine itself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are definately alot of the vg in the yards. But, as you discovered, the turbo plumbing in the 240 with this engine is not straight forward.

 

Plus, the trade-off for the front heavyness of the inline engine is that there ends up being more room to work on it.

 

Those are pretty much my 2 main goals - easy to work on, and inexpensive. The datsun L28t definately fits both of those requirements, and that's what I was originally shooting for. That may, in fact, end up being what I install.

 

But it does look like this whole head gasket fiasco has its upside - the yards and classifieds appear to be full of 7M-GTE cars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a line on a pair of Mark3 supras. Apparently one was a project and the other is the parts car. The guy wants $1500 for both.

 

One has had the engine rebuilt with the head milled and the HKS gasket (and a port and polish and valve job apparently). The other is missing front sheetmetal and has a blown HG.

 

So, my devious mind is thinking: get these (perhaps for a skonch less than asking price), drop the good motor and trans in my Z, then, if I have the energy left over, put the other engine together and put it in the good car to sell cheap, $1000 maybe, as a driver. Misc. parts for the swap (driveshaft, mounts, hoses, etc) probably cost about $350.

 

But, at this point this is all simply devious conjecture. I've also found 2 280ZXTs for $500 each. But they're much farther away (6 hours in opposite directions vs 2 hours for the Supras). And they're both Autos, so I'd still have to find a 5speed. The ZXs do have the rear axles and calipers that I could use though. And it would be an easier swap. But, they'll need rebuilds - about $400 by my calc.

 

Hrm. I likely won't do anything. But it's fun to ponder such possibilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

BS. You're being lied to or not told the whole story. You can't get 2 mk4 suras for $1500, esp. with one of them running. If those prices are real, you'dve never heard of the car because it would be sold before it was ever put up for sale.

 

PS. Point me in the right direction and I will buy 2 mk4 turbos, 1 running, for $1500 sight unseen.

 

 

------------------

Morgan

http://z31.com/~morgan/s30

http://carfiche.com

 

[This message has been edited by Morgan (edited February 01, 2001).]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Speaker

anyone got a site with info on modding the 7M-GTE?

 

besides the head gasket problems... can the bottom-end of the motor handle lots of power like its 2JZ-GTE relative?

 

i'm looking for a motor to go in a 280Z that would give lots of top-end...

 

does the L28T have the top-end? i think the 6k rpm redline kinda holds it back...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when i win the lottery i want a 20bt mazda 3 rotor turbo in my z.these engines are around but not cheap 3 to 4 grand.i found a place that makes a bell housing for a t5 or t56 trans.i like the mad swarm of bees sound.these things make 300 or 400 hp with out turbo and rev to 9000 rpm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RacerX,

 

not sure I agree with your comment regarding the head on a SupraTT to make serious HP. Of course you did not define serious HP so I have no idea what that target is. I can tell you from personal experience that 400RWHP in a 1st-gen Z-car is serious. Now, note 2 things in that comment. I said RWHP and I said serious, not serious HP. 400RWHP in a 1st-gen Z-car is serious HP enough to run 11.0 1/4-mile at the track. On the street you can translate that to 0-120mph on less than 11-secs so the potential top-speed is insane because I can tell you that the Z is pulling HARD at that speed. That begs of some serious braking and suspension. The whole point of that diatribe is that if you plan on more than 400RWHP, your main concern should not be on the cost of the headwork to support that HP but the chassis/suspension/brakes needed to make the car safe.

 

The SupraTT requires no internal work to support 400+RWHP and if you were planning on much more, you would have to open up the engine (or any engine for that matter). Someone else made an excellent point about the RBs. When you buy one used, you have no idea of the condition and of course the same applies to the SupraTT. However, if something goes wrong or you need to make upgrades, that is where the SupraTT has an advantage, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: the 7M gte engine.For info go to the Sogi (Supra Owners Group Int'l) or Sonic web pages and check out the tech pages. The reason for headgasket failure seems to be related to the fact that the factory torque specs for the headbolts were not high enough. Because the bolts were not torqued tight enough they would loosen--Read these sites and there are instances of going to pull off the head and finding the bolts hand tight. These sites are full of info and the author of many is Reg Reimer who finished 4th in Car and Drivers One Lap the latest Supra. He has a very good article on swapping the 7m into the previous gen Supra.

 

Basically when buying a used motor a safe bet would be to pull the head and install an HKS metal headgasket. I put this engine into my 71 510 wagon and before installing I pulled the head and put in the HKS gasket. I smoothed the head and block surfaces with emery cloth prior and installed the gasket with copper seal gasket dressing. I ran 16psi at Thunderhill park last summer and have had no problems as of yet.

 

Check out racetep.com to see what they think of this engine--Also Toysport has a very informative website. I had my used engine shipped from K. Watanabe 450.00 + 150 for shipping. I sold the factory turbo for 150.00 and purchased the HKS gasket for about the same. Tough to beat price wise and you can use the W-58 transmision which came in the N/A Supra's from 86-92 and was used in the SC300. The Turbo Supra's trans is harder to find and has a very expensive and weird clutch system. It is not needed.

 

This engine has 24 valves, oil squirters piston cooling and is very strong. Hard to beat for the price and availability

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all,

 

I just wanted to dispell a couple of misnomers. First of all the supra engines do have a problem with blowing alot of headgaskets, but there's a good reason for that. The supra engine is one of the few engines that need nothing done to the internals, meaning turn up the boost way higher without ever having the heads off than they would dare to on most other engines. The weak link is the head gasket, not because of poor design, but because of the false sense of security supra owners have about their engines.

Now that I've defended the Supra engine I'll play devil's advocate and say that it can't compete with the RB engine!!!!!!!! A couple of years ago Top Secret, a tuning company in japan set about building two of the most radical street cars ever built. One was a Toyota Supra and the other an R33 GTR skyline, both had almost 1100HP. They decided that they would rather stroke an RB26 and swap it into the Supra than use the Supra powerplant, because the RB is superior! Thats as fact, and there are magazine articles out there to prove it. Besides in the Japanese touring series the Skyline dominates everything!! GO NISSAN!!!

Laterz,

TonyZXT icon_rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

The RB isnt better then the 2JZ, THAT IS A FACT. Only 86-92 MKIII 7M-GTE Turbo Supras have head gasket problems. The reason is because they werent torqued down to the right specs.0 Vinny Ten ran his Supra at 907 RWHP with stock internals at a couple of races because his RACE motor was being built. Also, the 2JZGTE is bulletproof and does not have ANY head problems. Also, skylines dont dominate the JTC, SURPAS DO, and they ALWAYS qualify ahead of Skylines. I hate when people say stupid things like XXXXXX dominates JGTC when they have never even watched a JGTC race. Also, that RB26 in a supra was just an experiment, right know they are running a 3S-GTE that Supra. It did 199MPH in 4th and ran out of straight away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

Hey guys. First post. Cool board.

 

I have a '94 Twin turbo 6-speed Supra. Power upgrades are 3 inch downpipe into 3.75 inch exhaust pipe, manual boost controller, after market air filter, and Boost Cut Controller (allows to boost beyond preset factory limits).

 

Stock boost on a TT Supra is about 11psi. The mods described above are BPU (basic performance upgrades) and with those installed Supra guys usually boost around 17-19 max psi on the street. They sometimes will go higher though.

 

The fuel system (6 550cc injectors) and ignition system (individual coil packs) can support 500 rwhp. It has been done.

 

Tranny can handle the power too, of course an upgraded clutch is needed when making BPU power and up.

 

I ran a 12.7 1/4 mile at 115mph my first try at BPU power. That was on stock 255/40/ZR17 tires. A good driver could do low 12s to high 11s.

 

Just wanted to give you guys some info on just how easy it is to make power from the Supra motor (2JZ-GTE) . Now if you have the money there is always aftermarket turbo systems/fuels systems too. icon_smile.gif

 

Hope I helped with my long post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW. Top Secret is the shop that made the gold GTR in the Shin Wangan Midnight video.

I've seen that Gold Supra at the AutoSalon, pretty sweet with that RB engine.

 

So, in the Supra vs. Skyline debate, which is better, the Nur Spec Supra or the Skyline that came after it (R34?)

 

Whatever the debate, you should only be comparing the engine YOU'RE getting, so what Nissan makes an RB26DETT if you can only afford the RB25DET?

 

Owen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hello again i hate the title of this post just an invite for flaming and this place (HybrideZ) isnt teh palce for it everybody entitled to there own opionions.

 

for you guys in teh states teh supra is better becasue it is cheaper but as for as durability and power they are about teh same. but as for preference ... i just came from japan and lived ther for 6 years... didnt see any toyota moters swapped into anything but older supras and tourer V's. but did see just about everything with a rb26 in it. from a datsun 210. to a ford mustang. thats says alot to me ;> my 2 cents ;> icon_wink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

Like someone said before, Top Secret swapped an RB26DETT into a Supra. The reason I heard though was that the RB is quite a bit lighter than the JZ engine. As for power output, they are probab;y about the same. I would probably go with the Supra engine because: 1. It is cheaper, and 2. It is easier to attain parts for it here in the states.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty much all the technical aspects have been discussed. But what about good old convenience, 2jz-gte is an america motor which mean parts are very easy to obtain, while the rb26dett is not. You can go to Auto-zone to buy parts for the 2jz. Good luck finding an oil punp pick up for an RB26dett and when you do your at the mercy of the 3 people who have spare parts.

And plus you dont have to open the 2jz up at all which makes to cheaper.

 

But the ricer in me says the rb26 is more jdm!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty much all the technical aspects have been discussed. But what about good old convenience, 2jz-gte is an america motor which mean parts are very easy to obtain, while the rb26dett is not. You can go to Auto-zone to buy parts for the 2jz. Good luck finding an oil punp pick up for an RB26dett and when you do your at the mercy of the 3 people who have spare parts.

And plus you dont have to open the 2jz up at all which makes to cheaper.

 

But the ricer in me says the rb26 is more jdm!

 

Would you like me to order an oil pump pick up from my dealership for you? It costs 30 bucks at a local Nissan dealership.

 

If you supply the part-numbers, you can get it from Nissan if you push them.

 

As for autozone stuff, a lot of Z32 parts work on RB engines, and so do other parts as well, you just need to know the ones that work, and ones that dont.

 

And if the next thing anyone mentions is the option of going to autozone if something breaks down, well... if your oil-pickup happens to break, you may soon have bigger problems than what auto-zone can help you with.

 

Adding to that, It only takes 10 - 20 days for nissan parts to come in, sometimes less. That's not that bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hehe if you guys want to see a real battle with EVERY freakin spec tumbled around go to www.supraforums.com. They have a sticky for just this topic pitting the 2JZ against the RB....Personally to the OP I have owned both a 1991 Turbo Supra with the motor pulled/rebuilt AND I have owned a 1993 TT Supra. The engines are WORLDS apart. As previously mentioned the 7M has a huge problem with blowing head gaskets due to the wrong torque spec on them from the factory. It is still a MAJOR feat to break into the mid-400's let alone the 500 HP club with the 7M engine. That takes LOTS o money's.

 

Now for the 2JZ. Yes you probably see ALOT of those guys running around with maybe mid-400's and yes these engines are very easy to get in the excess of 800+ on internals. The problem is try getting reliability out of those numbers haha. To reach those numbers it still takes alot of money and I garuntee most of the 2JZ's with high HP #'s have spent ALOT of money to get there. You have to remember that they are:

 

1. Probably singled which is costly to do right

2. Fuel mods

3. Electronics to support it (AEM Stand alone is the most popular)

4. Race Gas

5. Probably not on stock internals, yes they will hold it but for how long who knows.

6. This is just FYI but the stock TT set-up is a royal PITA to work on with all the vacuum switches etc.

7. Parts are becoming increasingly harder to find. Pretty much Champion Toyota is the best place to get them from anymore and GOOD LUCK finding a mechanic that truly knows what they are doing.

 

After considering all that I still LOVE the 2JZ but you need to understand its not nearly as easy as most people think it is with this motor. It still takes some bleeding knuckles and decent amount of money to get these cars to the bragging point that most have them at.

 

You have to remember most of these engines are going to be pulled for a reason. Oh if you decide to buy from Japan make sure your motor is coming from a SUPRA and that it is not an Aristo motor. Aristo's had a 2JZ in them but they were slightly different from USDM. Same with the JDM 2JZ-GTE motor it is slightly different as well. So if you do go the 2JZ route, I would highly recommend you pay a little more for a USDM motor.

 

I forgot to mention if you can get your hands on a decent Getrag Tranny (6-speed manual from TT Supra which will cost upwards of 2k for a good one) they will pretty much withstand any amount of HP you throw at it....straight awesomeness.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good writeup but I do not agree with everything you said. I will correct you again and say the Aristo turbo engine IS the JDM 2JZ-GTE. Building a 2JZ setup can be expensive if you must have a getrag 6-spd and all your parts from Greedy, HK$, etc and you must match the ridiculous dyno numbers the Supra crowd likes to to tout. How fast does a 2JZ-powered Z want to go? Well it only needs mid-400hp to break into the 10s and 600hp to scare yourself silly and require proper safety equipment, certification and license.

 

My heavier FC RX7 has a stock Aristo 2JZ-GTE with $100 used USDM cams, a $350 single header, old-school T72, pump gas and meth-inj and is pushing mid-600 at the wheels based on 139.6 trap speed and 3050lbs. HP is capped to avoid being thrown off the track because I only have a 6-pt. I said all that to make the point that a lightweight Z-car does not need to spend a ton of $$$ like Supra owners to go fast, unless hey are looking to into the 8s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok sorry I think I need to clarify what I meant by the Aristo and JDM being different, I meant the samething you said in the other post about their cams, etc being different from one another while both are different from the USDM engine......I just did not use the best grammar lol....I was meaning to say the samething you said without going into the details of why they are different......hehe thats my mistake in the grammar department.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×