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Q45 VLSD tearing up cages


CrayZ

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can anyone enlighten me on this converstion. I just bought slammed 68's lq4/280 and the axle pull out is BAD, which i expected but im going to tear into it this afternoon and am looking for a little bit of guidance/do's/dont's/watch out etc. Im completely new to Z's and independent rear suspensions. This will be a learning lesson for me and the begining of a loooooong road with this car.

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halfshaft1_zps82d546a5.jpg

Before the CV axles can be installed, they must be shortened slightly. This is accomplished by tapping down on the flange on one end until the cover plate pops off:

halfshaft2_zps0b61659c.jpg

Then remove the circlip, place some tape around the ball bearings so that they don’t fall out, reverse the ball assembly on the shaft, and finally reinstall the circlip:

halfshaft3_zps8f27df50.jpg

The end cap then can be tapped back on, and the shafts are ready to install.

 

I dug this up on another website and was curious if this relevant to my issue. He shortened the half shaft  so could i lengthen them so they are not pulling out?

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What do you mean by "axle pullout is bad" and how do you know?  I've only read one account of a CV axle pulling out and it only did it once because the balls came out of the cage(?) and destroyed themselves. 

 

Probably best to describe what type of axle you have, 4 bolt or 6 bolt (MM makes a conversion for both), and if you have the MM parts or are asking about them.

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I think that those are VLSD axles.  6 bolt 280ZX axles are 3 sets of paired holes.  You probably have the shortnose R200 setup from MM. 

 

There is a link within this link that shows an install.  It might give you some ideas.  http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74&PHPSESSID=9e25b7fab3e9baf204ae3aa017e3d66f

 

Here's the link - http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/mm_gallery.php?album=2008+March+Proto+Q45+R200+Mounting+Proven+Brian+G/

 

It used to have text with it explaining the pictures but they're gone now.  Somewhere out there is probably another web page with more details.

 

 

Edit - pretty sure that you have to have custom axles made for this conversion.  The Q45 or 300ZX axles are too long.  Maybe someone got their measurements wrong.

Edited by NewZed
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What do you mean by "axle pullout is bad" and how do you know?  I've only read one account of a CV axle pulling out and it only did it once because the balls came out of the cage(?) and destroyed themselves. 

 

Probably best to describe what type of axle you have, 4 bolt or 6 bolt (MM makes a conversion for both), and if you have the MM parts or are asking about them.

 

I think that those are VLSD axles.  6 bolt 280ZX axles are 3 sets of paired holes.  You probably have the shortnose R200 setup from MM. 

 

There is a link within this link that shows an install.  It might give you some ideas.  http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74&PHPSESSID=9e25b7fab3e9baf204ae3aa017e3d66f

 

Here's the link - http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/mm_gallery.php?album=2008+March+Proto+Q45+R200+Mounting+Proven+Brian+G/

 

It used to have text with it explaining the pictures but they're gone now.  Somewhere out there is probably another web page with more details.

 

 

Edit - pretty sure that you have to have custom axles made for this conversion.  The Q45 or 300ZX axles are too long.  Maybe someone got their measurements wrong.

 

I think you are correct. the link you sent me looks like what i have.

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This is my question. The previous owner stated that he installed the "races backwards" does that mean that the snap ring groove on the "race" (im calling it) needs to be flopped around? this is how it is currently setup at the moment.

 

22D91CC8-BFE6-4D95-B9A6-255EE5D491A4-211

 

7594DF61-EFDA-4BAE-9B38-AD487BD4026D-211

 

the second picture is the wheel side of the shaft. That side of the shaft is intact. The snap ring groove is on the outer most side closet to the wheelas you can see. Both of the races are setup in this configuration. Im wondering if they needed to be swapped from the get go? snap ring groove closer to the middle of the axle on both ends?

Edited by CrayZ
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soooooooo basically which picture is the correct insatllion procedure?

 

 

68FE3E35-E3C1-4E0D-8C14-8D0364C85A6D-211

7594DF61-EFDA-4BAE-9B38-AD487BD4026D-211

 

 

AND if it was wrong would it be the reason it looks like this?

 

000E4DC4-CF53-4C5D-B812-225060C2C240-211

 

 

 

 

 

I was not able to tell much a difference in legth from the two different ways i installed them. Thanks in advance guys.

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I have this setup in my Zcar setup.  You do need to flip the cages to gain additional clearance.  My car is lowered with GCcoilovers and it's a real chore to get them in place.  Flipping the cages allows you the additional space.  If you have the MML setup you should have the "stops" endcaps that will allow the Axles to have less travel.  This would stop them from slamming into each end cap. 

 

Also, Just an FYI but you want to use the OEM factory CV boots.  The aftermarket stuff is just to thin and comes appart in a VERY short period of time.  My build thread has the part numbers for the OEM units.

 

Mike

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One of the Hybridz members just had a similar situation and ended up with a damaged cage like yours.  You might start a new thread with a link to this and put a good title on it.  Your problem isn't from the MM product, but from the Q45 CV axles.  Search Q45 CV axle and you might find somehting.  Read jmortensen's Differential thread in the FAQ section and you'll find a description of what you have to do to get the Q45 or 300ZX VLSd to work.  I think that, in general, they say that you have to buy four Q45 axles and mix and match parts to get two good ones.

 

Edit - Mikelly posted at the same time.  Still not clear why you seem to have the other problem, of too much clearance allowing the axle to come apart.  Anyway, lots of new stuff to read.

Edited by NewZed
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I have this setup in my Zcar setup.  You do need to flip the cages to gain additional clearance.  My car is lowered with GCcoilovers and it's a real chore to get them in place.  Flipping the cages allows you the additional space.  If you have the MML setup you should have the "stops" endcaps that will allow the Axles to have less travel.  This would stop them from slamming into each end cap. 

 

Also, Just an FYI but you want to use the OEM factory CV boots.  The aftermarket stuff is just to thin and comes appart in a VERY short period of time.  My build thread has the part numbers for the OEM units.

 

Mike

by flipping the cages you mean installing the cage with the embedded grove to the inside of the axle?

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One of the Hybridz members just had a similar situation and ended up with a damaged cage like yours.  You might start a new thread with a link to this and put a good title on it.  Your problem isn't from the MM product, but from the Q45 CV axles.  Search Q45 CV axle and you might find somehting.  Read jmortensen's Differential thread in the FAQ section and you'll find a description of what you have to do to get the Q45 or 300ZX VLSd to work.  I think that, in general, they say that you have to buy four Q45 axles and mix and match parts to get two good ones.

 

Edit - Mikelly posted at the same time.  Still not clear why you seem to have the other problem, of too much clearance allowing the axle to come apart.  Anyway, lots of new stuff to read.

 

 

thank you

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http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/110716-mm-cv-axle-converstion/?do=findComment&comment=1035280

 

 

having some trouble with this setup tearing up the "cages" i think they are called. Im new to Z's and just bought this car, looking to get this squared away ASAP. thanks in advance.

 

 

 

000E4DC4-CF53-4C5D-B812-225060C2C240-211

Edited by CrayZ
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Looks like the exact same problem I had when my axles were too short. It pulled out when I got on the gas real hard, and spun the balls and cage in the cup, just like your picture, and destroyed the cup.

 

My car is basically the exact same height as yours. 

 

I'd bet you that axle length (too short) is where your problem lies. Check the clearance between the companion flange and the the CV cup where they mate, when your suspension is at full droop, and the axle is completely compressed.

 

Get that #, and report back.

 

2012-07-09_13-36-41_702.jpg

Edited by SUNNY Z
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Looks like the exact same problem I had when my axles were too short. It pulled out when I got on the gas real hard, and spun the balls and cage in the cup, just like your picture, and destroyed the cup.

 

My car is basically the exact same height as yours. 

 

I'd bet you that axle length (too short) is where your problem lies. Check the clearance between the companion flange and the the CV cup where they mate, when your suspension is at full droop, and the axle is completely compressed.

 

Get that #, and report back.

 

2012-07-09_13-36-41_702.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

how did you fix it? longer axles? i have already torn the axles out of the vehicle can i measure this with it out? The axle is right at 12" long by itself. And im sorry but my lingo with these suspension parts is non existent. can you give it to me in retard terms? *edit* when i suspend the assembled axle up and down making it as long as i could possibly be it measures 16" from one end of the cup to the other

Edited by CrayZ
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