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TrumpetRhapsody

New CV Upgrade Option - 240sx Hubs & Axles

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Alright guys, I'm tired of the astronomical costs associated with upgrading the rear end to handle a decent amount of power. 280zx axles are old tech, and prone to failure. 300zx axles are better, but require $500 center sections not to bind. Either way, you still have a weak stub axle that will be next in line to go. By the time you get billet stub axles and upgraded axles you're looking at around $1700 minimum.

 

TechnoToyTuning and several others have come up with the R230 upgrade, but I feel like that diff is overkill for 90% of the people on this forum, not to mention the even higher cost of sourcing those parts and all the adapters and upgrades associated with it. Basically you won't do much better on cost that way either.

 

 

I intend to take the backing plate T3 has designed for their R230 upgrade, and use it to run 240sx hubs, wheel bearings, AND axles with the R200. The 240sx diff side stubs are 29 spline, so there should be NO EXPENSIVE ADAPTERS needed for this swap. All you'll need to do is shorten the CV center shafts, something most capable axle shops will do for about $150. An additional bonus is that you'd be able to use the 240sx SE hub to swap to 5 lug if you wanted. The only caveat is that you'll need to convert to the 240sx rear disk setup (or any of the 240sx rear brake upgrade options), something most of us do or have done anyway.

 

 

So the parts list should be:

 

T3 Backing Plates                                                 - $550 + coilover/strut option

240sx Hubs, Wheel bearings, axles, side stubs    - $200-500 depending on whether you buy new or source used

Shorten CV center shafts                                     - $150

 

 

 

I'm currently coordinating with TechnoToy to see if/how this can be pulled together, so i'll update you guys as I make progress. I'm hoping they can set it up where you have the option of choosing between retaining stock-style strut tubes, or coming with a coilover sleeve ready to accept the common Megan or GC coilover upgrades. Hopefully the final product will be significantly cheaper than existing options, and modernize our rear ends.

 

 

Let me know what you guys think, and wish me luck!

Edited by TrumpetRhapsody

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I'm using the Z32 rear brakes and keeping the E brake, FWIW. You just need the backing plates, wheel bearings, and e brake assemblies from a Z32 NA. NA and turbo are the same IIRC.

 

The Z32 NA stuff is the same spline count as the 240sx. The turbo stuff is bigger.

 

Food for thought.

Edited by SUNNY Z

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Very interesting, i'd love to see some picks of the mock up so keep us posted. I just got rear lca's from TTT they are awesome quality and fit perfectly so i can only imagine what it will turn out like when you are done. Wheel options get alot broader when you can fit s13 wheels and TTT just came out with billet 5 lug hubs that accept stock s30 bearings so when you do the front 5 lug conversion you will be golden.

Edited by motomanmike

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I would be very interested in this if I could make it work with 5 bolt axles. I've still got that 30 spline Nismo Z32 LSD laying around and would like to put it to use.

 

I'd thought about this, since I had that diff as well for awhile. Should still work, but you might need some LCA drop brackets to get those huge diff side stubs to clear. When I was mocking that diff up trying to think of ways to make it work, they wouldn't clear.

 

 

I'm using the Z32 rear brakes and keeping the E brake, FWIW. You just need the backing plates, wheel bearings, and e brake assemblies from a Z32 NA. NA and turbo are the same IIRC.

 

The Z32 NA stuff is the same spline count as the 240sx. The turbo stuff is bigger.

 

Pretty sure all Z32's are 5 lug, i'm trying to keep 4 lug. The Z32 rear calipers are a bolt on for 240sx's (which means it would work here too), but I was under the impression you would lose your e-brake? I thought the Z32 used a drum style ebrake. Can you show some pics?

Edited by TrumpetRhapsody

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Thats what i'm saying. You use a 4 lug hub inside the Z32 wheel bearing. Then you use the rotors/ calipers and e brake assy. The e brake is a shoe and drum style, with the drum being the ID of the rotor....... 

 

I'll likely end up using the dust shields from the Z32 stuff, as it has a couple little brackets that will be useful in the ebrake assy.

 

 

 

Edit: I just updated my 8.8 thread in this forum with a post regarding just this.

Edited by SUNNY Z

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I gotcha now, but staying 4 lug limits me to using the 29 spline axles that fit the 240sx hubs, so might as well stick with the bolt-in (shortened) 240sx axles.

 

I like the Z32 rear brake idea though, since I wasn't thrilled about using the undersized SX units OR losing my ebrake. I'll bet I could use the SX wheel bearing and hub, and still use the backing plate, caliper, and e-brake assembly from the Z32. Please take LOTS of pics as you work on your rear brake setup.

 

 

 

I just got all my used parts in, so I need to take apart my 240sx axles to see if I'm going to be able to get them shortened and resplined, or whether they're too thin and will need custom center bars.

Edited by TrumpetRhapsody

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I think the 29 spline axles will be more than enough to handle anything you or I will throw at it. However, in the case that I do break one, I'll just get a TT 5 lug hub re-drilled for 4, and be on my way. Hmmm... Maybe I should do this in the first place!?

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Perhaps! I think I"ll be fine with 29 spline for a turbo car.

 

I looked into the Z32 rear brake upgrade, and the whole drum thing looks like it's more trouble than it's worth. I found this:

http://forums.nicoclub.com/diy-larger-rear-rotor-upgrade-t483332.html

 

I'm thinking that should be enough to bring the bias issues people see with the SX rear disk swap back into check. Guess we'll find out!

Edited by TrumpetRhapsody

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I hope you put those parts to good use, I didn't think anyone would want them. The issue for the rear E brakes on 240sx's is a simple matter of using literally everything e brake related to the z32. They even make conversion brackets for like $60. You already have the hubs and will be able to go 5 lug with a hub/bearing swap. 

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Good to know. At least this will give me options. I'll try the Z31 bracket swap first, and if that's still not enough rear bias i'll bite the bullet and go full Z32.

 

The Altima rear rotor is only 0.06" bigger in diameter than the Z31 rear rotor. The Z31 rotor and SX caliper are what come with the basic Modern Motorsports rear kit, and it's not adequate for any of the big front brake options. The problem is the puny little 34mm piston in the caliper. That gives you a 74/26 front/rear split with V6 4-Runner Calipers/300ZX vented rotor up front. It's even worse running the MM Xtreme 13", or AZC Wilwood setup up front with the SX rears. Might as well not have rear brakes!

 

Near the end of the SX run, Nissan bumped the rear caliper piston up to 38mm, but that'll only get you to 70/30 with the V6 4-Runner setup. Even the Z32 only had a 38mm piston out back, but a slightly larger rotor (+0.3" dia). Still not great if you want to have some serious brakes up front. Keep in mind that the Z32 front brakes are less powerful than the V6 4-Runner setup. And stock SX front brakes are less powerful than stock S30 front brakes! But at least they have vented rotors.

 

What the ideal front/rear split is is hard to say. Too many variables from car to car with all of the different modifications that we make. But I'd at least like to have enough brake in the rear that I can dial them back with a proportioning valve. Better than not enough to begin with. There are other caliper/rotor options out there. I've got something in the works right now that will bolt on to stock S30 rear hubs, using an OEM aluminum body caliper with a 43mm piston, integrated parking brake and can run an 11.5" to 13" rotor, but it's probably still a couple of months away before I have all the details worked out.

 

If a new rear backing plate is being designed, what I'd suggest is to use the Z32 parking brake assembly and rotor and design the backing plate to use a Wilwood 4 piston caliper, or at least a decent sized OEM caliper. Once you eliminate the need for a caliper with an integrated parking, your options open up tremendously!

 

Nigel

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Maybe this is just in my instance, but I dont have binding issues with z31 turbo axles, but they are hard to find. if you flip the bearing races around and can even grind the end of the axle down a few mm's to help it all squeeze together

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Meph: You still have weak stub axles just waiting to snap. This addresses multiple issues. Not saying you aren't right about not having binding issues, but there's a reason the custom center bars were made.

 

 

Nigel: Nice catch on the rotor sizes. The 240sx guys were saying it was a 1.5" increase over their stock rotors. I didn't think to check if the Z31 rear rotor we use was bigger than the stock 240sx, which it is. Not much gain there, ill have to keep digging, maybe look at the cobra upgrade. I really want to avoid that drum e-brake nonsense. Trying to keep this cheap and easy.

Edited by TrumpetRhapsody

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If you're trying to keep this cheap and easy, you've missed the mark by a mile.

 

Stock Z31T driver's center bar gets swapped to the passenger side. You've already got this if you have the Z31T axles.

Stock 1990-92 OR 1993 WD21 Pathfinder 4x4 front driver's center bar gets fitted in the driver's side. This is a 10$ part in the U-pull yard.

 

Using the 1993 center bar, you run a larger spacer, about 1.25" thick on the driver's side. 1990-1992 will need a thinner spacer, as the axle is STILL shorter than you need it to be, but not AS short. Spacer thickness for the 1990-1992 axle will be less. The spacer thickness depends on if you have bolt-through companion flanges or the threaded companion flanges, as they are going to be different thicknesses. Not a huge deal to measure out, either.

 

Done. No binding, no problems.

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Sunny: I'll dig more into that, maybe I'm thinking it's more complicated/expensive than it should be.

 

T3 seems to think this will be a decent lower cost swap, just need to confirm that by trying it!

 

Xnke: That is a decent Z31 axle option, but that leaves the weak stub axles. Those are the heavy hitters on price. Plus not everyone has easy access to a pick-n-pull. 240sx parts are a dime a dozen on many forums.

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If you're trying to keep this cheap and easy, you've missed the mark by a mile.

 

Stock Z31T driver's center bar gets swapped to the passenger side. You've already got this if you have the Z31T axles.

Stock 1990-92 OR 1993 WD21 Pathfinder 4x4 front driver's center bar gets fitted in the driver's side. This is a 10$ part in the U-pull yard.

 

Using the 1993 center bar, you run a larger spacer, about 1.25" thick on the driver's side. 1990-1992 will need a thinner spacer, as the axle is STILL shorter than you need it to be, but not AS short. Spacer thickness for the 1990-1992 axle will be less. The spacer thickness depends on if you have bolt-through companion flanges or the threaded companion flanges, as they are going to be different thicknesses. Not a huge deal to measure out, either.

 

Done. No binding, no problems.

 

How'd you come about this info?  I've been searching all over the place trying to find a solution and this is the first I've seen of the Pathfinder 4x4 front driver's side axle.  Not saying you're wrong by any means, just curious if this is actually an option.

 

Either way, I'm all :popcorns: in this thread.  Looking for a solution!

 

Keep up the good work.

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There are several threads on hybridZ involving those parts. I actually found that info here, as posted by NZeder, I think. He was trying to find a way to make the Nismo 30 Spline LSD work.

 

You can always just order that axle from the parts store too. That still doesn't solve the stub axle problem, but I think there is another easy solution for that too...not sure yet.

 

As for it being a real option, I've been driving on that solution for a year now. I'd hope it was real!

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There are several threads on hybridZ involving those parts. I actually found that info here, as posted by NZeder, I think. He was trying to find a way to make the Nismo 30 Spline LSD work.

 

You can always just order that axle from the parts store too. That still doesn't solve the stub axle problem, but I think there is another easy solution for that too...not sure yet.

 

As for it being a real option, I've been driving on that solution for a year now. I'd hope it was real!

 

You're right, I just hadn't seen them yet.  I'm still trying to figure out what to do with mine. 

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