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10 years after hybernation - '75 280z

280z hybernation restore

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#41 tamo3

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

Fighting for ring pin removal from the reverse idler shaft.

Attached File  ring_pin_.jpg   54.57KB   20 downloads

 

Waiting for 2 days, got new ring pin plier Tekton 3574 from amazon.com for $5.88

Attached File  ring_pin_plier_TEKTON.jpg   35.44KB   19 downloads

First try, it broke the tip! Cheap made in China product is not durable enough.

 

I read again datsun garage website again and realized that the author recommend Stanley-Proto J250G lock ring plier.

 This ring plier is different design from regular ring pin plier.

Attached File  ring_pin_plier_PROTO.jpg   22.43KB   15 downloads

 

Sure, it is heavy duty construction and using slotted screwdriver to push, finally, I could've removed the ring pin!

 

 

 



#42 tamo3

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:32 AM

While waiting for the ring pin plier, I was working on coilover project.

 

First of all, I try to cut the spring porch using grinder. It takes too much time and I replace disk to cutoff disk. Using right tool  is saving so much time.

Attached File  strut_front_00.jpg   62.34KB   19 downloads

 

However, I leave too much metal for grinder. It takes about one hour for grind off extra metal to smooth up just one of the strut.

Attached File  strut_front_01.jpg   40.06KB   19 downloadsAttached File  strut_front_02.jpg   36.12KB   15 downloads

 

For rear strut, I still haven't remove the drum disk brake. In order to remove drum disk brake, I need to remove the Hub.

 

When I read FSM and Blue's work, it sounds harder to remove the rear hub.

http://www.atlanticz...ings/index.html

 

I read some other post from somewhere, using impact wrench is much easier to remove the nut.

Grind the inner nut of hub and use impact wrench to remove.

Attached File  strut_rear_000.jpg   51.43KB   16 downloadsAttached File  strut_rear_00.jpg   44.54KB   20 downloads

 

Then using 12t shop press from HFT, to push out the hub.

Attached File  strut_rear_01.jpg   53.81KB   28 downloadsAttached File  strut_rear_02.jpg   67.71KB   25 downloads

 

So far so good for the strut modification.

 

I decided to go coilover conversion uing Bilstein P30-0032 shock following thehelix112's instruction.

I don't know whether GroundControl Coilover Conversion kit was available at the time when thehelix112 did his work. When I calculate the cost of the parts, it seems like it almost same with GC coilover kit.

I wonder I can use GC's coilover kit with Bilstein P30-0032.

 

 

 



#43 ISPKI

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:38 AM

Tamo, I have been reading through your build thread and I think you should get a clear universal fuel filter and install it inline immediately after the tank/before the fuel pump. After sitting for that length of time with old fuel in the tank, there is most likely some amount of sludge and/or rust piled up in the tank - My 77 280z sat for about a year with maybe a gallon of gas in it and it had some rust and sludge deposits in the tank. I installed one of those cheap universal fuel filters and it has collected about half a tablespoon of sludge/rust in it after a few months. The filters are available at many parts stores and online, usually for a few dollars.



#44 tamo3

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

Hi ISPKI,

 

Thank you for your reading my project thread and giving good advice. I was planning to do total clean up for gas tank before put my triple weber.

Previous owner filled up gas tank almost full and when I remove old gas, I didn't see any sludge at all.

 

Once tranny is done, I will replace fuel filter and fuel tube before running.



#45 tamo3

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

Just small update.

After ring pin is removed, banging mainshaft to remove counter gears.

Attached File  tranny_shaft_01.jpg   70.21KB   7 downloadsAttached File  tranny_shaft_02.jpg   65.06KB   9 downloads

 

On the mainshaft, there is Over Drive Gear Bushing that prevent me to remove the over drive synchronizer hub and insert retainer.

Attached File  tranny_shaft_03.jpg   58.37KB   9 downloads

 

There was a discussion about suitable spark plug.

I got B6ES and BPR6ES-11 to compare.

 

For my 280z ’75, B6ES seems to be the good one. Decoding the plug name BPR6ES-11…

  • B: Thread diameter 14mm
  • P: Construction. Projected
  • R: Construction. Register Type
  • 6: Heat rating. Hot (2 – 11)
  • E: Thread Reach 19mm
  • S: Firing End Construction. Standard center diameter 25mm
  • -11: Wide Gap 1.1mm (0.044″)

 

Attached File  Spark_plug_01.jpg   42.17KB   9 downloads

Left B6ES, Right BPR6ES-11

 

Attached File  Spark_plug_02.jpg   38.16KB   10 downloads

Left BPR6ES-11 with wider gap, right B6ES

 

Attached File  Spark_plug_03.jpg   30.39KB   7 downloads

Left BPR6ES-11 with Register Type tip, right B6ES

 



#46 ISPKI

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:41 PM

Thats the worst part about sludge buildup! In my (albeit limited) experience, you cant really tell that its in there until you either purge the tank with acids or you blow your fuel pump and clog your lines. Guess which one was the experience I had...

 

Keep up the good work, you inspire others like myself to keep going on our restoration projects.



#47 tamo3

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:32 PM

Thanks for your advice! I will make sure to replace Fuel filter before running engine next time!

 

small progress.

Finally all the gears are off from the shafts.

Attached File  gear_1st_2nd.jpg   58.7KB   6 downloadsAttached File  gear_3rd.jpg   64.97KB   6 downloads

 

I need to make sure to memorize the direction of 1st & 2nd gears's syncro.

Attached File  gear_syncro_toward_front.jpg   59.75KB   7 downloadsAttached File  gear_syncro_toward_back.jpg   60.41KB   9 downloads

 

The bearing inside of 1st & 2nd gear syncro has brownish color... rust??Attached File  gear_bearing_12.jpg   62.11KB   11 downloads

 

I bought rebuild kit @ ebay looong time ago, before acquired this close ratio tranny.

The syncros should be all 4 same thing. but 2 of the looks new, other 2 of them seems like used one.... :icon51:

Attached File  rebuild_kit1.jpg   36.17KB   9 downloadsAttached File  rebuild_kit2.jpg   48.82KB   9 downloadsAttached File  rebuild_kit3.jpg   43.78KB   10 downloadsAttached File  rebuild_kit4.jpg   45.46KB   10 downloads



#48 tamo3

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:16 AM

Getting advice from duragg,  I figure out my unkown tranny's gear ratio from the counting teeth of gear.

 

Main drive gear = 21

1st = 33

2nd = 27

3rd = 25

5th = 24

Reverse = 36

 

Counter drive gear = 32

1st = 14

2nd = 20

3rd = 28

5th = 45

Reverse = 15

 

Here is the formula of how to calculate gear ratio.

Gear ratio = (main driver gear) divided by (counter drive gear)

1st Gear ratio = (1st gear) divided by (1st counter gear) divided by Gear ratio

 

Thus,

 

Gear ratio = 21 / 32 = 0.65625

1st gear ratio = 33 / 14 / 0.65625 = 3.591836735

2nd gear ratio = 27 / 20 / 0.65625 = 2.057142857

3rd gear ratio = 25 / 28 / 0.65625 = 1.360544218

4th gear ratio = main drive gear / counter drive gear / 0.65625 = 1.000

5th gear ratio = 24 / 45 / 0.65625 = 0.812698413

 

Attached File  gear_ratio.png   7.22KB   3 downloads

 

Comparing with close ratio and wide ratio of 71B, my unkown tranny gear ratio is much wider than wider ratio. I think it's not worth to  spend more time on this tranny...

 

However, I learned a lot from this tranny and get so much experience and confidence from braking this in a parts.

I have '77 FS5W71B tranny. It's wider ratio. But I can install that into Z sooner.


Edited by tamo3, 24 May 2013 - 10:16 AM.


#49 Leon

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

Interesting, looks like what you have there is a FS5W71B from either an '84 200SX or an '80-'86 720 Truck. I found this site extremely useful when doing Datsun transmission research: http://www.gracielan...k/gearing2.html



#50 tamo3

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:35 AM

I realize that if I change main drive gear and counter drive gear with other one, my "unkown" 5th gear seems like useful.

Attached File  gear_ratio2.png   13.21KB   5 downloads

 

If I swap my 5th gear and 5th counter gear to '77 FS5W71B(wider ratio), my Over Drive 5th gear ratio become 0.7515 which is closed to "closer ratio" 5th gear ratio of '81-'83 FS5W71B, which is 0.745. It's good finding. Wider ratio 5th gear is 0.864. I can get better high way millage with this swap.

 

Attached File  71B_comp.jpg   63.11KB   4 downloads

 

I think my "unkown FS5W71B" 5th gear and counter gear of 5th are interchangeable with wider ratio of FS5W71B. Will try this weekend.

 


Edited by tamo3, 24 May 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#51 tamo3

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

Interesting, looks like what you have there is a FS5W71B from either an '84 200SX or an '80-'86 720 Truck. I found this site extremely useful when doing Datsun transmission research: http://www.gracielan...k/gearing2.html

 

Thanks Leon for this site.

That's really useful information! I didn't know FS5W71B has so many variety of gear ratios.



#52 tamo3

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:25 PM

- Remove exhaust

- Remove anti-sway bar

- Remove front of diff mount

- Unbolt propeller shaft bolts

 

- Remove radiator fan

- Remove slottle linkage

- Drain transmission oil

- Remove starter

- Unbolt Transmission - Engine bolts

 

Finally, 4 speed transmission dropped last night. I spend too much time not to brake other staff.

Attached File  4speed_drop.jpg   71.07KB   1 downloads

 

 

The problem was clutch withdraw lever spring was bent. That's why I did not get traction.

 

Next steps:

- Remove Clutch

- Remove flywheel

- Replace clankshaft rear seal

- Investigate '77 FS5W71B transmission

- Install tranny

 

 


Edited by tamo3, 07 June 2013 - 08:01 AM.


#53 tamo3

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:07 AM

Just for a reference for wiring of starter.

Attached File  starter.jpg   50.79KB   0 downloads

 

The problem of my transmission is here.

Attached File  bearing.jpg   49.32KB   0 downloadsAttached File  lever.jpg   27.47KB   0 downloads

 

Measurement of collar.

Attached File  collar1.jpg   54.03KB   0 downloadsAttached File  collar2.jpg   48.84KB   0 downloads

 

As this site, state, http://www.zparts.co...ear_specs1.html the measurement is not accurate.

My 4 speed 71B is different size.



#54 tamo3

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

Order some parts from Nissan Parts Zone. This distributor has good web site online chat with tech support and cheaper shipping cost.

 

Item                    Description                    Unit    Price     total
12279-R4601    CRANKSHAFT SEAL     1         27.56    27.56
    Replaced by: 12279-2B500            
30542-E9000    COVER-DUST                1        4.88      4.88
01223-00041    NUT                                4        1.46      5.84
38320-N3111    GASKET-COVER            1        3.99      3.99
C8189-N3100    SEAL-OIL                       1        6.33      6.33
38342-N3100    SEAL-OIL                        2      10.25      20.5
39627-E4100    NUT                                 8       0.86       6.88
    Replaced by: 39627-N3000            
32103-U8400    PLUG-DRAIN                   1       7.59       7.59
    Replaced by: 32103-U840B            
38352-78600    BREATHER-COVER         1       1.34      1.34

 

 

Order some diff parts for rebuild and propeller shaft nuts, half drive shaft nuts too.


Edited by tamo3, 07 June 2013 - 01:11 PM.


#55 tamo3

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:12 AM

Progress update.

 

I can't find my pipe wrench in my garage, so I bought new one from HFT.

24inch wrench for $12, I feels good deal with heavy metal item!

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 33 14 PM.jpg   47.92KB   0 downloads

 

Remove all shocks.

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 33 00 PM.jpg   63.45KB   0 downloads

 

I compare the shocks I have.

Bilstein F4-P30-0032-MO in Yellow

Tokico Blue

and original KYB gas shocks front is short and rear is longer.

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 23 05 PM.jpg   181.43KB   0 downloadsAttached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 23 50 PM.jpg   180.54KB   0 downloadsAttached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 23 24 PM.jpg   183.62KB   0 downloads

 

Bilstein F4-P30-0032-MO is shortest.  TOKICO TOHZ3016 is almost same length with KYB 361002 without spacer.

 

 

Bilstein diameter is about 33mm.

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 25 43 PM.jpg   48.89KB   0 downloads

 

Tokico Blue and KYB is almost same size 21.28mm.

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 25 54 PM.jpg   43.87KB   0 downloadsAttached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 26 02 PM.jpg   46.68KB   0 downloads

 

I notice Bilstein Shock has small hole at the bottom of the shock where thehelix112 inserted bar on his Step by Step Coilover conversion thread.

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 9 27 18 PM.jpg   141.74KB   0 downloads


Edited by tamo3, 10 June 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#56 tamo3

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:19 AM

'77 280z FS5W71B Transmission tear down.

Attached File  Photo Jun 08, 6 33 25 PM.jpg   213.65KB   0 downloads

 

Compare clutch folk levers and collers between 4 speed and 5 speed.

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 8 31 04 PM.jpg   256.71KB   0 downloads

 

5 speed is about 37.51mm

4 speed is about 33.28mm

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 8 29 05 PM.jpg   196.7KB   0 downloads

 

5 speed is about 27.85mm

4 speed is about 24.66mm

Attached File  Photo Jun 09, 8 29 41 PM.jpg   183.82KB   0 downloads

 

Gears are really great condition.

Attached File  Photo Jun 08, 8 09 15 PM.jpg   239.09KB   0 downloads

Attached File  Photo Jun 08, 8 08 58 PM.jpg   226.03KB   0 downloads

 

Need to check Syncro rings wear out size.



#57 tamo3

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:25 AM

Use special tool to remove flywheel :-)

Attached File  Photo Jun 07, 9 11 30 PM.jpg   77.84KB   0 downloads

 

As spitz17 recommended, I need to replace crank rear end seal. There is oil leaking.

Attached File  Photo Jun 07, 9 19 59 PM.jpg   80.98KB   0 downloads

 

After dropped transmission, I put 2x4 wood to prevent engine tilt.

Attached File  Photo Jun 07, 9 46 53 PM.jpg   66.67KB   1 downloads

 

Luckily clutch is same size of the new one that I bought for my previous 240z.

Attached File  Photo Jun 07, 9 10 06 PM.jpg   220.58KB   0 downloads

 

Flywheel has some surface rust, I gust I can just scribble off.

Attached File  Photo Jun 07, 9 22 56 PM.jpg   196.72KB   0 downloads



#58 NewZed

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:36 AM

Looks like you're deep in to things.  I noticed your measurements on the throwout collars and you might be measuring to the wrong spots.  The critical dimension is from where the clutch fork contacts the collar to to where the bearing contacts the pressure plate levers.  I modified one of your pictures to show it.

 

 

Attached Files



#59 tamo3

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:45 AM

Thanks NewZed for your comment.

I was afraid of my collar was broken. And if this happens, I'm afraid of to find right part.

 

Also, I want to keep track information where this site mentioned their measurement is wrong.

http://www.zparts.co...ear_specs1.html

Also I noticed the bearing for 4 speed and 5 speed is different.

 

I will measure the size again.

 

Thanks!



#60 tamo3

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:07 AM

Power wash bell house and rear end housing of transmission.

I try to remove rear end seal for replace to new one, it's hard to get rid of. Using heat gun to heated up, still no luck. It looks like the rubber stick to the metal.

 

Attached File  rear_seal_1.jpg   37.81KB   1 downloadsAttached File  rear_seal_2.jpg   46.98KB   1 downloads


Edited by tamo3, 13 June 2013 - 12:47 PM.






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