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AFM fitment

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#1 Ben's Z

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:36 PM

I thought I had my AFM mounting licked.  Well I temporarily installed my AC compressor and I have no idea how anyone can get the AFM between the compressor and that big piece of shit dangling off the bottom of the throttle body with the one wire coming off of it. (Whatever purpose it serves)  I can sort of get it in there but any universal cone filter I buy is going to be something off a single barrel stromberg carb. I see no way in hell you can run your IC pipes using the fresh air holes in the core support, (drivers side serving the turbo, passenger side serving the throttle body) keep your AC and get any sort of decent sized air filter on the AFM.  I did however get my IC mounted tonight and it looks pretty good.

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#2 BluDestiny

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:40 PM

That thing off the TB is the BCDD (boost control decel device). It basically controls your decel fueling so you don't dump gas when you just decide to let off after a wide open throttle run. 

 

What have other people done? I'd imagine just moving it forward more, or even lower. I'd also probably not run the clutch fan and use some slim electric fans instead. 


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#3 Tony D

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:53 PM

Other people mount it in front of he radiator, upside down...
But that was inconceivable.
So we get this!

Woot!

And the BCDD has nothing to do with fuel, it has everything to,do with admitting air so you don't get a vacuum spike in the manifold on drop-throttle (oil consumption in city driving and racing...), and also pump enough air into the exhaust that throttle cut injector disable/reengagement doesn't spike HC to,he catalyst due to,over-rich mixtures from lack of air on drop throttle...

Edited by Tony D, 08 March 2013 - 08:57 PM.

Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#4 Ben's Z

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:04 PM

Other people mount it in front of he radiator, upside down...
But that was inconceivable.
So we get this!

Woot!

And the BCDD has nothing to do with fuel, it has everything to,do with admitting air so you don't get a vacuum spike in the manifold on drop-throttle (oil consumption in city driving and racing...), and also pump enough air into the exhaust that throttle cut injector disable/reengagement doesn't spike HC to,he catalyst due to,over-rich mixtures from lack of air on drop throttle...

Does the air between the turbo and AFM just magically find its way between the two?  I'd love to see how the pipe is ran, you incessantly blather on about this routing method.  



#5 Ben's Z

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:07 PM

I'd also like to see the AFM harness reach that far.



#6 Tony D

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

The frustrating part is for some reason I can't enter your screen name into the "ignore" list so you inability to surmount basic items and constant prattle goes beneath my radar.

I mentioned it, there are PHOTOS POSTED. That you can't visualise it is your issue dude. This stuff ain't rocket science and is documented clearly all over the web. In addition to here. But you don't want to hear what you don't want to hear.

That "Ben's Z" won't enter the "ignore" box is more than a mild irritation. Seeing the posts simply compounds it!

WOOOT! Cut and Paste! No more issues! Happy day...

Edited by Tony D, 08 March 2013 - 09:37 PM.

Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#7 Ben's Z

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:02 AM

And the lochness monster is still a myth... Heard of, maybe even a glimpse, but no real photos to prove it....



#8 billseph

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

I think the simple fact here is that you're gonna have to put the AFM outside the engine bay. Make some custom piping to extend the stock intake boot to the turbo, or just toss the boot all together and make a full intake pipe from metal. Extending the AFM harness will be a snap after that little bit of intake fab, it's just 4 wires to cut and splice.
I know I'm stating the obvious here, but Tony pretty much said to put it "in front of the radiator" which is a great location for it, it just requires some extra work.

#9 OldAndyAndTheSea

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:59 AM

Or if you wanted the "quick fix"

 

Remove the BCDD.

Block it off.

Become comfortable with the idea of some "crackling/popping" exhaust noises on decel. Especially noticable right after WOT driving.

 

 

But, the "better" fix is to keep the system in tact, and working how it was designed to.... So like Tony and others have said above,  just get creative with intake routing, and put it in front of the radiator support.

 

 

 

 

Or......lose the A/C, roll down windows,  and just drive REALLY REALLY fast, since you live in Tx. 


Edited by OldAndyAndTheSea, 09 March 2013 - 09:01 AM.

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#10 rayaapp2

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

Im afraid I have to side with Tony.

 

If you cannot conceive what he is trying to portray your missing his point.

He laid out what some people do and gave you a hint as to what that BCDD does. Its up to you as to how to execute the resolution.

Many folks have obviously done this swap. If you dont know how to make it all work thats on you. This is a classic case of looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

If you cannot make your own intake, understand how and why things work, cut and splice wiring, or use what ever creativity you have to solve this problem its not on him or anyone else. And you may not be able to overcome this simple problem.

 

I can come up with at least 5 different ways of solving that issue. Think outside the box. Take that stupid rubber ducting out and start coming up with ways to connecting the two.

 

Its really that simple like it or not.

 

BTW in my last turbo swap I was able to mount the VAFM inside the engine bay near the radiator support and run a K&N filter up front. And I didnt have to extend any harness!


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#11 Ben's Z

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

Decided to reclock the turbo and run the pipe underneath the oil pan. It worked great and is going to leave me more space for the afm. I have a question about cut ic pipe. Do you necessarily need to reflare or swedge the pipe again after you have shortened a piece? I have access to a muffler shop pipe bender so I can do it no problem but didn't know how crucial it was.

#12 Ben's Z

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:25 AM

Or if you wanted the "quick fix"

Remove the BCDD.
Block it off.
Become comfortable with the idea of some "crackling/popping" exhaust noises on decel. Especially noticable right after WOT driving.


But, the "better" fix is to keep the system in tact, and working how it was designed to.... So like Tony and others have said above, just get creative with intake routing, and put it in front of the radiator support.




Or......lose the A/C, roll down windows, and just drive REALLY REALLY fast, since you live in Tx.


Old Andy: I live in Houston buddy. A/C is shortly behind water in life necessities in this part of the world!

#13 Ben's Z

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

Hell there isn't even a bcdd on my turbo throttle body. Does anyone ever use the cold start injector hole for bov return?

#14 rayaapp2

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

Hell there isn't even a bcdd on my turbo throttle body. Does anyone ever use the cold start injector hole for bov return?

um... no crap Sherlock.

 

And seriously? Why would you use anything on the manifold for BOV return?


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#15 Ben's Z

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:17 PM

Well I hadn't really took a look at my turbo intake yet, it was in storage above my garage. The one you see in the picture was just loosely on there and was from my n42 intake.

In reference to my bov, I thought excess pressure was plumbed back in to the intake.

#16 Ben's Z

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

Well I hadn't really took a look at my turbo intake yet, it was in storage above my garage. The one you see in the picture was just loosely on there and was from my n42 intake.

In reference to my bov, I thought excess pressure was plumbed back in to the intake.

#17 NewZed

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:54 PM

Are you going to use the N42 manifold, or the turbo manifold?

 

I was just comparing a ZX NA W24 intake to an N47 intake.  The dimensions are slighty different, the throttle body mounting boss position is farther back (more room for you) and the throttle shaft also (the distance to the firewal will be shorter).  And the N42 throttle body is bigger than the ZX, with a different bolt pattern.  IIf you're using the N42 intake to mock up for the turbo intake, you might be wasting some time.  Plus, the BCDD is probably hanging from the bottom of the turbo  manifold, that's why there is none on the TB.  Nissan moved it from the TB to the bottom of the manifold with the W24 manifold.



#18 rayaapp2

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:40 PM

Are you going to use the N42 manifold, or the turbo manifold?

 

I was just comparing a ZX NA W24 intake to an N47 intake.  The dimensions are slighty different, the throttle body mounting boss position is farther back (more room for you) and the throttle shaft also (the distance to the firewal will be shorter).  And the N42 throttle body is bigger than the ZX, with a different bolt pattern.  IIf you're using the N42 intake to mock up for the turbo intake, you might be wasting some time.  Plus, the BCDD is probably hanging from the bottom of the turbo  manifold, that's why there is none on the TB.  Nissan moved it from the TB to the bottom of the manifold with the W24 manifold.

Its no wonder Tony has an aneurism when he reads these posts.

 

There is no BCDD on the turbo manifolds. period

The ECCS system is more complicated than the NA versions and cuts injectors based on RPM and throttle position so the BCDD is not needed!

 

I have N42 manifolds and the P79 manifolds, and the turbo manifolds. The turbo manifold uses a 55mm throttle body. The N42 I just measured is 55mm as well with the same bolt pattern!

 

I do not have a W24 intake to compare with, but all the manifolds I have all locate the TB in about the same position.

 

The linkage positions for the N42 and the turbo manifold(which do not seem to have a casting code on them) are also the same.

 

Now as for you Ben,

-BOV do not recirc into the manifold. The stock manifold has something to that effect, but its different as the stock L28et did not have a BOV. It uses a check valve at the #5 runner to bleed excess pressure off, but a BOV works a little different. You should be doing a lot of research on how to run a BOV before you proceed, or at least search for pictures of how some folks do it. You may be headed towards disaster if you continue down this path your on. But its your time and money.


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Truth 2 "You don't know half the stuff you think you do, and the rest is questionable."

#19 NewZed

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:55 PM

Can't help you on the different measurements.  I was considering usng the W24 manifold so took side-by-side measurements a couple of days ago, a 1981 P79/F54 engine manifold compared to an N47 from a 78 N47/N47.  The TB diameter and bolt pattern and positioning is definitely different.  The W24 TB from the ZX is surprisingly smaller than the N42, as are the hoses that connect it to the air filter.

 

I didn't say that the turbo manifold was the same as the W24, I offered it as a possibility, since the W24 is different and comes from the same ZX body style.  Which you'd know if you had one to measure.

 

Looks like we're all adding to the confusion.  Check valve (? - check valves don't generally "bleed" pressure), BOV, emergency relief valve (Nissan's term), definitions of each, how they work, where to plumb them and whether or not to use them.   Looks messy.  Yeehah.


Edited by NewZed, 09 March 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#20 Ben's Z

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

I do know that the best place for a bov is right before the throttle body. I've only owned one turbo car before in my life and only briefly. It discharged excess pressure to the atmosphere. Frankly I didn't want want the blow off woosh, I was trying to push it back into the motor, which I thought was protocol to eliminate the noise, I guess I am wrong.




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