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STAR shop familiar with classic insurance exemption in the southbay?


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#1 Dan_Austin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:57 PM

When SB 1224 was shot down I took solace in the news that the state

had a rule in place permitting a sniffer only test for cars with classic insurance.

 

That solace dissipated quickly today as shop after shop and tech after tech

told that there is no such policy/rule.  I figured it would be a simple matter of

looking up the reg so I could then have a shop confirm it, but so far have not

been able to locate more than excerpts of the rule without citation. 

 

So it would be great if anyone knows of a shop actually familiar with the

rules, or if anyone is aware of the exact regulation that includes the exemption.

 

 

 



#2 Z-Guy

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:15 PM

I recall having a Bar Blast (random updates to regulations and reminders) a few moths back on vehicles that are used for special events such as car shows and charity events that are 30+ years old can register as a classic/collectible car to be exempt from a visual and functional check but still require the "sniffer".I could be wrong so check with your local referee.  So far the only ones that are "sniffer" exempt are 1975 and earlier vehicles. I don't know where things are going in the next two years for the CA smog program, but a lot of things are changing that's for sure.



#3 johnc

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:31 AM

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm

 

In addition:
 

 

V C Section 4000.1 Pollution Control Device Certificate or Statement
Pollution Control Device: Certificate or Statement

(g) For purposes of subdivision (a), any collector motor vehicle, as defined in Section 259, is exempt from those portions of the [emissions] test required by subdivision (f) of Section 44012 of the Health and Safety Code, if the collector motor vehicle meets all of the following criteria:

(1) Submission of proof that the motor vehicle is insured as a collector motor vehicle, as shall be required by regulation of the bureau.

(2) The motor vehicle is at least 35 model-years old.

(3) The motor vehicle complies with the exhaust emissions standards for that motor vehicle’s class and model year as prescribed by the department, and the motor vehicle passes a functional inspection of the fuel cap and a visual inspection for liquid fuel leaks.

 

 

Currently the DMV, through BAR, requires a smog inspection to meet requirement number 3.


----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC

#4 Dan_Austin

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:24 AM

Beautiful.  The 'V C Section 4000.1' is the info I needed.  Now to call a few STAR shops and

see if they can look that section up and confirm they understand it.  My google was not so

weak as to miss the SMOG FAQ, but it did not lead to this section.


Edited by Dan_Austin, 17 June 2013 - 12:35 PM.


#5 Homeboyx

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:13 AM

Best best is to talk with a referee.



#6 Tony D

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:39 AM

Any update/joy on this issue? Did you get a "sniffer only" test?


Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#7 Dan_Austin

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:30 AM

No update yet, work has kept me too busy during the week.  I printed out

the section and will visit a few more shops to see if they know the rules or

will be willing to look them up.  

 

I am keeping a record of the shops that do not/did not know the policy and

forwarding it off to senators La Malfa and Vargas who drafted SB 1224, and

my local senator who voted against it.  The existence of this option was part

of the official reason the bill was rejected.

 

Once I find a shop that does, I need to procure a POS to be my new daily

so the insurance companies will issue the Classic coverage.    I am scouring

the country for an early 80s Chevette diesel to meet the second vehicle

requirement. 

 

Once I have a result I'll post back.



#8 Tony D

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:33 AM

Actually, an 84 Chevette Diesel is not required to pass any Smog Checks!

 

Now, an 84 Fiero....2M4....yeah!

 

Thanks for the update. Let us know what you find!


Edited by Tony D, 07 July 2013 - 01:34 AM.

Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#9 Dan_Austin

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:59 AM

I hit up eight more STAR certified shops on Friday and came away with no new details.

I then found a web forum dedicated to SMOG techs and shops (who have no love for

BAR or CARB).  I joined to ask about the program and uncovered another nugget, a

memorandum posted to the DMV inside newsletter, Vehicle Insider News 2012-12.

 

The memo acknowledges the program exists, but directs all questions to BAR, but

does not provide any new details about the program.  So I will be calling BAR on

Monday.

 

I need a second car to qualify for Classic Car insurance, and the 84 Chevette Diesel

addresses that need, my fondness for the Chevette and does not require any additional

interaction with the SMOG industry.



#10 Tony D

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:34 AM

I loved the  84 Chevette Diesel.... though truth be told and Isuzu I-Mark Diesel had the EXACT engine and transmission and got 10mpg more. Constantly source of irritation to my UAW-Employed Father-in-Law at the time that 'Bought American" thinking Chevette was GM.... Only to find an Isuzu Engine under the hood (just like all those untouched Chevy LUVs on one side of the street... American, not Jap POS like those I-Su-ZOO Pups with the winders shot out 'cross the street every Memorial Day...) 

 

It annoyed him to find out the I-Mark got 50+ when he could only get mid 40's at best. Musta-been the Chevvette Reargear huh?

 

Then again, you can always get that Diesel Chevette, then swap in a Chevy S10 2.8 V6.... mmmmm! Illegal.... gaaaarrrrgh!

 

I was driving down Rte 58 near Kuwae Hospital on Okinawa one day, and in the oncoming lane came a Chevette driven by a Japanese guy....

To be honest, I blurted out "WHY?" With the selection of comparable vehicles in Japan........I could not reconcile buying a Chevette 1600 with the alternatives being cheaper, more reliable, and having more power.


Edited by Tony D, 08 July 2013 - 03:36 AM.

Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#11 Dan_Austin

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:56 AM

Funny you mention the Luv/Pup, as that was my backup plan if I was unable to find

a Chevette worthy of acquisition.  Sadly they appear to be as rare as the Chevette at

this point.

 

I now have enough info to wrap up my investigation.  The program is real, albeit well

hidden.  I spoke to a gent, Marvin, at BAR after close to 40 minutes on hold.  I cited CA vehicle

code section 4000.1, paragraph (g) and he knew exactly what I was after.  He sent

me a questionnaire to confirm eligibility and followed up that the program requires a

visit to a local referee (in deference to homeboyx's advice it is good to know that this is

a requirement).

 

The bad news is that there are no openings at the local referee stations for the rest of the

month, and apparently they cannot schedule August yet.  So it will be a bit before I can

provide much more info on the actual workings of the program.

 

Marvin was able to confirm at least the basics-

       1.  The vehicle is 35 years or older (so for our purposes 76 to 78)

       2.  The vehicle is insured with classic automobile coverage

             a.  This implies it is not a primary use vehicle, which means proof of a daily driver is required

             b.  A copy of the policy is required.

       3.  The vehicle will be subject to a tailpipe sniffer test and an inspection for fuel leaks.

             a.  An under hood visual inspection is not performed.

 

Marvin volunteered that the point in 3a is odd, that if they look for fuel leaks, then they are

performing a visual inspection, but thought the regulation as written meant that if all else

was in order and no fuel leak was observed that the criteria for being inspected as a classic

car had been met.



#12 Tony D

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:04 AM

The underhood fuel leaks is a LOT more than what they COULD do on an underhood. There is no functional test of the EGR, no timing check, none of those things that allow you to tweak the car to pass a sniffer that would FAIL you under the normal SMOG check.

 

Example: I had a 1973 240Z (related this many times) that passed CLEAN to 1983 Standards, using only 71 SU's, an AIR pump pushing air into ONE header primary, and NO CATALYST.

 

That car FAILED because it did not have the EGR on it. It was a VISUAL FAIL. NOW there is NOTHING in the criteria that says all components must be in place and functioning any longer. 

 

Under classic insurance and this section, my 73 now WOULD PASS as it is ONLY TAILPIPE PASS/FAIL CRITERIA!

 

Taken in another light, within 3 years, you SHOULD be able to take your 76-78 S30 with an 81 ZXT Engine Swap...as it's now only a tailpipe only test... and...

 

THANKS for the update, keep them coming. Good information!


Edited by Tony D, 11 July 2013 - 03:04 AM.

Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#13 Leon

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:00 PM

Great detective work, Dan! I hope your diesel Chevette dreams come true. :)



#14 Dan_Austin

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:14 PM

I found exactly what I am looking for outside of Chicago, so the next steps involve

CFO approval, and someone local to give it a look see and help with shipping if

it is not too rough.  50MPG and a 2.5 mile a day commute makes it a financial

no brainer, but the CFO thinks I should just walk my ass to work and save even more.



#15 johnc

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:14 AM

Thanks for doing the research.
----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC

#16 Leon

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:24 AM

I found exactly what I am looking for outside of Chicago, so the next steps involve

CFO approval, and someone local to give it a look see and help with shipping if

it is not too rough.  50MPG and a 2.5 mile a day commute makes it a financial

no brainer, but the CFO thinks I should just walk my ass to work and save even more.

 

"CFO", that's great! :lol:

 

Dude, just buy a POS and call if your DD for insurance's sake and ride a bike to work!



#17 Dan_Austin

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:58 AM

You know of a bigger POS than a mid-80s Chevette Diesel?  I may love em, but

they are crap and I know it.  I missed one in the northbay by a couple of days last

month and have been kicking my self since then.  To add insult to injury, they were

almost giving it away.

 

My new DD will either be a pre-75 or a pre-97 diesel passenger car/light truck.

I briefly considered an VW R32, but I would be too tempted to twiddle with it...



#18 Leon

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:08 AM

You know of a bigger POS than a mid-80s Chevette Diesel?  I may love em, but

they are crap and I know it.  I missed one in the northbay by a couple of days last

month and have been kicking my self since then.  To add insult to injury, they were

almost giving it away.

 

My new DD will either be a pre-75 or a pre-97 diesel passenger car/light truck.

I briefly considered an VW R32, but I would be too tempted to twiddle with it...

 

Point taken! I suppose a Chevette Diesel is a POS even in showroom condition...



#19 Tony D

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:37 PM

"You know of a bigger POS than a mid-80s Chevette Diesel? "

Ever run around in a Yugo...
Or Trabant of similar vintage?

By default, just about anything from GM, Ford, or Chrysler in the Mid-80's is a POS, it's only a question of degrees.

Grand National/GNX Regal T-Type a high point in drive trains, but hideously trimmed and appointed! LOL
Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#20 johnc

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:57 AM

There are so many examples of 1980s, 1990s US cars with great engines in a crap chassis: GN/GNX, Dodge Cummins Diesel Trucks, Fox Mustang, Pontiac 6000STE, LT1 Corvette,...
----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC




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