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VW Bay Window Bus - Subaru Powered


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#1 RTz

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:47 PM

I've had a couple Bay's in the past, but that was long ago. I miss owning one and every 2 or 3 years get the itch have another. By pure chance I ran across this '72 Panel. Freshly painted inside and out, all new window/door seals, reupholstered/carpeted, new brakes, and so on. Long story short, my better half agreed that this one was 'it' and we towed it home. Got it running/driving in a few hours, but it doesn't run terribly well. Carb's are out of tune, low compression, etc, etc. Weighing out my options, I've decided to Hybrid-ize it with an EJ22.

 

Side_zps4016a426.jpg

 

Front_zps1b6bbc94.jpg

 

Rear_zps165e5f7a.jpg

 

Interior_zps428168b1.jpg


Regards, Ron

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#2 Leon

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 04:48 PM

Sweeet! Damn Ron, how many projects do you have going? How's the Locost?



#3 LanceVance

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 04:57 PM

Did we forget the 'T' at the end of EJ22 :P

Looking forward to seeing what you do with it, I've always loved Subaru and VWs!
2011 Subaru Impreza STI Limited Sedan - Daily Driver
1973 Datsun 240z - Running tripples, getting the L28ET!
1975 Datsun 620 Pickup - Future SR20/Ratrod project

#4 RTz

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:36 PM

Damn Ron, how many projects do you have going? How's the Locost?

 

Too many!

 

The Locost has evolved into Hicost. I'm expecting to receive my custom roll hoop and back-stays in the next week or so. It's moving along. Slowly.


Regards, Ron

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#5 RTz

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:37 PM

Did we forget the 'T' at the end of EJ22 :tongue:

Looking forward to seeing what you do with it, I've always loved Subaru and VWs!

 

The T is a future possibility :cheers:


Regards, Ron

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#6 tooquick260

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:57 PM

Love the bus,,, subaru motor will be awesome. I know everyone has seen the bus that they put the porsche twin turbo all wheel drive in!


1974 Datsun 260Z L26 bored out to L28, 8.1 to 1, 280Z turbo, MS3Pro, 500cc Injectors. Inter cooler, Schneider's custom cam, TTT3 Front & rear coilovers  with Z32 front and rear brakes, S15 6 speed tranny, Q45 rear diff 3.53. Using Z32 16" wheels. My build http://forums.hybrid...echnotoytuning/<p>


#7 RTz

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:49 PM

Love the bus,,, subaru motor will be awesome. I know everyone has seen the bus that they put the porsche twin turbo all wheel drive in!

 

Thank you.

 

Are you speaking of The Race Taxi? Agreed, it is a MASTERPIECE. However, I'm thinking that its not AWD. If you know of an AWD counterpart, don't hesitate to link it here!


Regards, Ron

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#8 Leon

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:55 PM

Too many!

 

The Locost has evolved into Hicost. I'm expecting to receive my custom roll hoop and back-stays in the next week or so. It's moving along. Slowly.

 

It happens! :lmao:



#9 RTz

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:31 PM

Tore apart my Wife's '95 Legacy... after buying her a 2013 replacement of course. She's happy. I'm happy. We're all happy.

 

Engine came out easily. Very easily...

 

EJ22Out_zps4813329b.jpg

 

The harness was a lot less easy. Unfortunately the EFI harness is fully integrated with the chassis harness. It's also buried behind EVERYTHING. Dash, supplemental structure, HVAC, etc. Took about 3 hours just to pry it from the cold dead carcass. But alas...

 

SubyHarness1_zps9a37dffb.jpg

 

Then began the purging of all the unwanted chassis electrics. In a couple of evenings I got it whittled down to a near minimum and celebrated with obligatory suds. In this case I tried out a new brew. 10 Barrel Brewing "Pray for Snow" Winter Ale. Very Nice. Will definitely buy again.

 

SubyHarness2_zpsa8a02369.jpg

 

I'll bench test it in this state, then tidy it up.

 

Also, I ordered the KEP adapter today. They tell me I'll have it mid-week.

 


Regards, Ron

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#10 RTz

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:54 AM

The Kennedy adapter, flywheel, and Stage 1 clutch arrived from Pacific Customs. Tom was awesome to work with. Professional, organized, and patient with all of my stupid questions.

 

Got most of the major grime off the motor and bolted up the adapter/flywheel…

KEPAdapter_zps7f6d6a90.jpg

 

Removed the old Type 4 motor and bolted the Suby in its place…

TestFit_zpsecaa27a9.jpg

 

It fits great. More room than I had expected and, so far, easier to work with than the stocker.


Regards, Ron

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#11 Leon

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:47 PM

Fantastic! :2thumbs:



#12 RTz

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

Wrapped up the motor hanger/mount. The Bus has a robust Bellhousing mount from the factory. The Subaru motor mounts are near the rear of the engine, which means that there is only about 6†from mount to mount. This also means that the motor 'hanger' doesn't need to be terribly burly. Just stout enough to share the duties with the Bellhousing mount and relieve some stress on the upper mating bolts/bosses.

I started with some 10 gauge U-Brackets I had laying around from another project, machined some ferrules and 1x1 tubing...

 

U-Brackets_zpseff73d4e.jpg

 

Welded the U-Brackets to the frame and the rest fell into place...

 

U-BracketWelded_zps154fcef4.jpg

 

MotorHanger1_zps4251c345.jpg

 

MotorHanger2_zps5627ef42.jpg

 

The Suby oil pan is tall. If left as-is you lose about 3" of ground clearance. I ordered a shortened pan and pick-up from Outfront Motorsports. It's 1 ½" shorter than stock, has a 10ga bottom plate, and I can still run about 5 quarts of oil.

 

ShortPan1_zpsd9e37654.jpg

 

ShortPan2_zps0841e23d.jpg

 

I also picked up a shortened billet Oil filler from Outfront...

 

ShortFiller_zpscd5242ed.jpg

 

Installed...

 

MotorHangerInstalled_zps9938ebf0.jpg


Regards, Ron

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#13 tooquick260

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:17 AM

Great progress. Seen a guy do that with a karmann Ghia. 300 hp in a 2500 lb car is a lot of fun.

 

With the bay window bus should be a great cruiser!!

 

 

Here is cool cruiser....

 

Bus051.jpg

 

 

This has 4 wheel disc brakes. Porsche Fuch wheels. Running a 2332 cc motor with fuel injection. Transmission is from a bug but has the Gene Berg 5 speed kit! He had a 3.44 rear diff in the tranny with a .89 5th gear. Cruises at 80 mph all day long at 2600 rpm.

 

Can't find the motor or interior pics. He has the interior empty in the rear just carpeted. Front seats are cool bucket seats. He competes in water skiing events. 

 

 

The pic below shows my dads yellow 73 has 2165cc dyno'd at 188 hp before the nitrous. Black car a 1952 Split window bug is the bus guys other car. Running the same exact setup as the bus motor wise. He dyno'd the bug at 170hp. The buggy is running a 2007 with a T4 turbo fueled by a single barrel mukuni carb. He put down 190hp.

 

hensericmeloyello-1.jpg


Edited by tooquick260, 27 October 2013 - 03:19 AM.

1974 Datsun 260Z L26 bored out to L28, 8.1 to 1, 280Z turbo, MS3Pro, 500cc Injectors. Inter cooler, Schneider's custom cam, TTT3 Front & rear coilovers  with Z32 front and rear brakes, S15 6 speed tranny, Q45 rear diff 3.53. Using Z32 16" wheels. My build http://forums.hybrid...echnotoytuning/<p>


#14 RTz

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

That splitty looks delicious. Fuch's are on my must have list, but I gotta get this thing road worthy before I can convince my better half the world will stop spinning unless I have a set :-)


Regards, Ron

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#15 tooquick260

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:13 PM

For sure.... BRM remakes are cool to!


1974 Datsun 260Z L26 bored out to L28, 8.1 to 1, 280Z turbo, MS3Pro, 500cc Injectors. Inter cooler, Schneider's custom cam, TTT3 Front & rear coilovers  with Z32 front and rear brakes, S15 6 speed tranny, Q45 rear diff 3.53. Using Z32 16" wheels. My build http://forums.hybrid...echnotoytuning/<p>


#16 RTz

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:46 AM

I think the most challenging aspect of a liquid cooled swap in a Bus is the cooling system, especially if you want the Bus to keep its air cooled appearance. I've poured through many peoples projects and there are a number of ways people go about it. But I'd say the two most common radiator strategies are belly mounted...

 

BellyRadiator_zpsffafdcf2.jpg

 

And side mounted...

 

SideRadiators_zpsa74a6b4d.jpg

 

It seems that belly mounting has been typically less troublesome for most swappers, probably in part due to the seriously large radiators that can be fitted in the space available. Aside from the vulnerability issues, the main thing I have against them is that, here in the Pacific Northwest, we have an extended rainy season and with that comes a lot of road grime. I'm not sure I'd be content with the maintenance hassles of belly mounting.

 

Side mounted radiators have worked great for some, and less great for others. There are a few things I'm not crazy about with side mounting:

 

Venting. If you can't get air out, you can't get it in. Most people are relying on the air being forced down and around the engine. While I haven't tested it, I'm reasonably certain the air coming from the underside of the Bus is pressurizing the engine compartment (like most cars). This means the radiator exit air must overcome this pressure build up sufficiently. Guys have found various methods of venting the engine lid helps which helps confirm my suspicions. And that brings us back to keeping the 'air-cooled appearance'. I'd rather avoid visual venting in the body if I can help it.

 

Coolant filling. In order to have a high point fill you need to get creative and more than likely have the filler high and inside the cabin. At the very least, cutting an access hole in the rear deck (in '73 VW started putting access lids over the engine, so that makes it a little easier with later Buses).

 

High point bleed. Same issue's as filling.

 

Air intake is always getting hot air (unless some creative intake plumbing puts the air filter somewhere not so user friendly).

 

Battery. The normal place for a battery is now covered up by the radiator. That means relocating the battery inside the cabin and that means an expensive sealed battery or a vented enclosure.

 

I decided to try a different type of mouse trap. The EJ is so short (front to rear) that there is a decent sized area left behind the crank damper. A 36" x 8" x 3" radiator will fit lying flat. So I had Ron Davis build a radiator to those dimensions...

 

RonDavisRadiator_zps65522124.jpg

 

 

It holds more than twice the coolant volume of the Subaru radiator and core surface area is around 4 times greater as well. The Bus is similar in weight to the Suby Legacy, but the Bus pushes more air at elevated speeds. I'm gambling on this being enough to compensate for the additional aero drag and the occasional light loads this Bus might carry.

 

The trick to getting this to work will be sealing the engine to the engine compartment. I don't believe it must be air-tight, just reasonably so. Creating a low pressure on the bottom side will also probably be necessary.

 

If this works, it addresses all of my complaints about side mounting and belly mounting. The immediate downside with this scheme is that it seriously limits exhaust routing choices. But we all like a good challenge, now and then :mrgreen:

 

Here it is being test fitted...

 

RadiatorTestFit_zps2d5352b8.jpg

 

 

The EJ throttle body will hit the firewall on Bay Bus's. There are throttle reversers available, but I decided to flip the intake manifold around backwards instead. This impacts a few items, but the biggest crash is with the alternator. I CAD'd up a bracket ant had it laser cut from 6061. I still need to build the rear mount and adjuster but you get the idea...

 

AlternatorBracket_zps0f7f58d1.jpg


Regards, Ron

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#17 Leon

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 01:56 PM

Some serious engineering going on here! Loving it.



#18 johnc

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:01 PM

We just picked up a '62 single cab pickup as a shop truck.  We have looked a the Subie swap but we can do a 180hp Type 4 and 5 speed for about $3500 all in.  That's plenty for a drum braked bus chassis.  You have to do a lot of work to the brakes and suspension to run 300hp in this chassis.


----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC

#19 tooquick260

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:58 PM

We just picked up a '62 single cab pickup as a shop truck.  We have looked a the Subie swap but we can do a 180hp Type 4 and 5 speed for about $3500 all in.  That's plenty for a drum braked bus chassis.  You have to do a lot of work to the brakes and suspension to run 300hp in this chassis.

 

 

what 5 speed? Bergs is about $2000 grand in parts... Unless you have an old mickey 5 speed laying around.


1974 Datsun 260Z L26 bored out to L28, 8.1 to 1, 280Z turbo, MS3Pro, 500cc Injectors. Inter cooler, Schneider's custom cam, TTT3 Front & rear coilovers  with Z32 front and rear brakes, S15 6 speed tranny, Q45 rear diff 3.53. Using Z32 16" wheels. My build http://forums.hybrid...echnotoytuning/<p>


#20 johnc

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:35 AM

Rancho owes us a few favors.  We are also thinking about swapping in a Porsche 901 rear suspesnion (which will blow the $3,500 number I listed above).  That will let us use any number of 901/02 five speeds we have around the shop.

 

And Ron, here's a better Subie engine option:

http://www.racecar-e...e-mans-revealed


----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC




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