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VW Bay Window Bus - Subaru Powered


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#41 Tony D

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:36 AM

Yep, an old wall furnace front panel/door to cover the A/C Condenser!
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#42 RTz

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

I found this after about 30 seconds on Google:

http://images.thesam.../pix/275088.jpg

 

If the airflow is up, the fan would have to run nearly continuously. If the air comes in the 'slot' above it and downward than that makes cleaning that much worse. The access panel idea Tony had is nice, but in my experience, radiators/coils should be cleaned in reverse of the airflow. In either case, these are the reasons I chose to avoid belly mounting. And hopefully my approach will work well enough that I won't have to reconsider.


Regards, Ron

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#43 Tony D

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:39 PM

Caterpillars have hydrostatically driven fans that automatically reverse in operation to blow bags and chunks off the exchangers. Always watched the noobs on the dump stand near the big loud idling equipment, only to get showered with trash when the fans reversed.

The Suzukis basically run the fan all the time as a modification. But my bigger unit doesn't require that. The pressure operated fan stays off through several compressor cycles then runs for a minute or two. Going down the road, I expect it's on more than that.

Adequate rejection in the exchanger will get your fan cycling, if that's your bag... But if you run a smaller set of fans with an alternating mechanism as one always runs those brushless DC fans can last a looooong time! And multiple fans mean partial cooling for limp-home.

The more I think about that squat radiator...the more I think about behind the axle. It would greatly simplify running heater hoses as well! By that I mean plugging any internal bypasses, and incorporating them and the thermostat up at the radiator so no secondary hoses to run for heaters front and rear, just taps in the piping going up front, with those neat stepper motor heater control valves now available.

Unless, of course you are indeed thinking of retaining exhaust heat recovery heating in this van....
I mean, with the rainy weather you're surely going to need a defroster (and hint hint, those are tasty pieces from VW do Brasil to buy up from the current water-cooled versions!)

Edited by Tony D, 28 December 2013 - 07:43 PM.

Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#44 RTz

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:09 AM

…only to get showered with trash when the fans reversed.

 

:mrgreen:

 

But if you run a smaller set of fans with an alternating mechanism as one always runs those brushless DC fans can last a looooong time! And multiple fans mean partial cooling for limp-home.

 

Fair enough.
 

…plugging any internal bypasses, and incorporating them and the thermostat up at the radiator so no secondary hoses to run for heaters front and rear, just taps in the piping going up front, with those neat stepper motor heater control valves now available.

 

Not a bad idea.
 

Unless, of course you are indeed thinking of retaining exhaust heat recovery heating in this van....

 

No way Jose! She gets liquid heat. It was one of the bullet points for ditching air cooled.


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#45 RTz

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:15 PM

Been a while since my last update. Progress is happening, I promise. A few of the noteworthy items...

Exhaust is completed on both sides.

 

I adapted the Bus throttle cable to the Subaru throttle body. Didn't like it. Not one bit. The combination of the 18 mile long cable, with two more bends, made for a snatchy throttle feel. Various springs in various places subdued the feel to heavy numbness. I considered modern cables and liners as well as hydraulic operation but ultimately settled on an electric throttle. This (and other wants) ultimately lead me to aftermarket EFI. Most of you know I've been fond of Wolf EMS for many years, but they don't offer a system that directly supports Drive by Wire (ViPEC calls it E-Throttle). Long story short, I settled on a ViPEC i88 purchased from Vic at Pauertuning.com. I'm looking forward to getting my feet wet with ViPEC. It's a bit harder on the pocket book and the learning curve is a little steeper, but has a lot to offer in return...

 

ViPEC_zpsdbf0e705.jpg

I picked up a used 2006 Legacy E-throttle and adapted it to the older manifold. The main hurdle is the bolt pattern is 'off' by about .070". I machined the throttle to fit but, in retrospect, I should have modified the manifold instead...

 

E-Throttle1_zpsfaaf799e.png

  

E-Throttle2_zps7b1fd3a6.png

 

 

I disassembled everything in preparation for rust proofing, painting, and some rust repair at the bumper mounts. Once everything was out, pulling the fuel tank for inspection seemed obligatory. Glad I did. Aside from the hidden rubber hoses that were cracking, the interior of the tank was in a bad way. Rust had settled in deeply. I decide to try the apple cider vinegar trick and filled the tank with 15 gallons. It worked FAR better than I expected. I wish now that I had taken some before pictures, but believe me when I say it was BAD.

Here is the after pic. You can see the signs of the deepness of rust penetration. Very pleased with the results...
 

Tank1_zps63360bcc.png


Regards, Ron

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#46 RTz

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

I dropped the transmission mount in a bucket of apple cider vinegar for a few days. This time I snapped a before and after. The black areas are paint...

 

TransMountBefore_zpsacbcd383.jpg

 

TransMountAfter_zpse4a6ca86.jpg

 

The fuel tank was far worse.


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#47 NewZed

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:35 PM

That's impressive and kind of weird.  Is this home-made cider vinegar or some special brand?  How do we reproduce these results?



#48 RTz

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 08:38 PM

That's impressive and kind of weird.  Is this home-made cider vinegar or some special brand?  How do we reproduce these results?

 

Pretty basic actually. The vinegar came from Safeway in gallon jugs. I would guess most of the supermarket apple cider vinegars are pretty close to the same thing. The natural acids in the vinegar are what is attacking the rust. All I did was completely submerge the part in the vinegar and be patient. That's all there is to it. The only 'magic' in that sentence is completely. What I found was that anything not submerged and exposed to the off-gassing of the vinegar would rust nearly as fast as the rust was being removed from the submerged portion. Aside from that, it's child's play.


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#49 Tony D

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:16 AM

"I adapted the Bus throttle cable to the Subaru throttle body. Didn't like it. Not one bit. The combination of the 18 mile long cable, with two more bends, made for a snatchy throttle feel. Various springs in various places subdued the feel to heavy numbness. I considered modern cables and liners as well as hydraulic operation but ultimately settled on an electric throttle. This (and other wants) ultimately lead me to aftermarket EFI."

Translation:
I was adapting the throttle cable and while I was in there I decided...

LOL

Nice...
Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#50 RTz

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:13 AM

Removed the old spent wiring harness, neutralized a lot of surface rust underneath, repaired battery tray, repaired bumper mounts, modified the rear apron to accommodate the radiator, painted everything, and reassembled. It's pretty well complete mechanically. I've installed AN push-lock fittings in the fuel system, but I'm still waiting on 2 more to show up. Once those arrive I've have about an hour or so to wrap up the fuel system end all that's left is a coolant overflow bottle, carbon canister, and some tune up items (plugs, wires, PCV valve, oil, etc).

Then it's on to EMS and wiring.

 

Assembled1_zps877216ff.jpg

 

Assembled2_zps67ec7a69.jpg

 

Assembled3_zps71f21935.jpg

 

Assembled4_zps9720c6a5.jpg

 

Assembled5_zps86a1751b.jpg

 

Assembled6_zps40aa2cd1.jpg

 

Assembled7_zps51518f59.jpg


Regards, Ron

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#51 RB26powered74zcar

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:17 PM

Amazing job you've done Ron!  I absolutely dig that bad boy...


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#52 RTz

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:20 PM

Thank you, Sir. Maybe someday I'll actually get to drive it :-D


Regards, Ron

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#53 RTz

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 01:38 PM

Started mocking up the board. It fits neatly into one of the cabinets in the rear of the Bus.

 

BoardMockupA_zps7536808c.jpg

 

 

BoardMockupB_zps5291eb40.jpg

 

I've also spent quite a bit of time researching and testing the E-throttle over the last couple of weeks. I think I'm finally comfortable with what needs to happen and what to expect. Next is to finish up the board, install it, and tackle the remainder of the wiring.

 


Regards, Ron

HybridZ; Some diligence required.

#54 Vw-traveller

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:25 AM

That's an amazingly clean job. I've been planning similar ideas for my '79 Westy for 13 years. Especially to recycle the sealed engine compartment airflow idea from the original design.
Any reason you went with electric fans as opposed to one running of the crankshaft?
Have you fired it up yet? I'm looking forward to seeing if the cooling is sufficient. If yours works out, I'm starting this the next day.

One reason I was hoping for an all engine compartment compact design is the hope to be able to switch out engines quickly. Everybody else's solution of putting the radiators over the battery makes it an awfully permanent solution. If the radiators is mounted on a bracket connected to the engine you can just remove the whole thing for maintainable. Or go aircooled for w/e.

Thx for sharing.

#55 RTz

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:47 AM

That's an amazingly clean job.

 

Thank you.

 

Any reason you went with electric fans as opposed to one running of the crankshaft?

 

Several:

  • The Subaru is not set up for a mechanical fan so you would have to construct a fan drive
  • As I see it the only practical orientation of the radiator and airflow would require pushing air through the radiator. Most engine driven fans are built as pullers, not pushers.
  • Pulling air through a radiator is generally more effective than pushing
  • It would require the radiator to be in the vertical position directly behind the engine. That equals crappy maintenance access to the engine
  • You would still need to route the discharge air without a visual impact to the Bus
  • Electric fans are generally quieter and more efficient

I can think of a few more reasons but I think we’re already past a solid ‘heck no’ :-D

 

Have you fired it up yet?

 

Still working on wiring. It’ll be a while yet before its running.


Regards, Ron

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#56 RTz

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 10:43 AM

The engine is finally wired. The only wiring left at the rear is the battery and starter.

Wired3_zps22edb389.png
 

Wired2_zps14981773.png

 

Wired1_zps5fc6538c.png

 

 

I have about a dozen or so wires left to run to the front. The only remaining challenge are the foot position sensors.


Regards, Ron

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#57 Vw-traveller

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:14 AM

OK, i'm convinced that electric fans are better now. Thx ;)

 

is an expansion tank going on the left side where the radiator cap is?



#58 RTz

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:01 PM

OK, i'm convinced that electric fans are better now. Thx ;)

 

is an expansion tank going on the left side where the radiator cap is?

 

Yup, around the corner behind the tail-light along with a carbon canister.


Regards, Ron

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#59 RTz

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:05 PM

I've completed a number of smaller tasks since my last update, such as installing a DBW Infiniti G37 throttle pedal, completing the Vi-PEC wiring, and so on, but the real news is that she started up for the first time tonight :burnout:

 

 


Regards, Ron

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#60 RB26powered74zcar

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:46 AM

I've completed a number of smaller tasks since my last update, such as installing a DBW Infiniti G37 throttle pedal, completing the Vi-PEC wiring, and so on, but the real news is that she started up for the first time tonight :burnout:

 

Can hardly wait to see a vid of it purr-n    :2thumbs:


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