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A musician's therapist (The $300 Z)


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Zetsa- I'm in Mendon working on a '71 240z as time and funds allow, would love to check out your fuel tank setup sometime when you are down this way.  As for your LS price options, you'd be surprised what they go for on the KSL classifieds, I saw a 5.3 with computer and harness for only $750 a couple of weeks ago.  

 

Always awesome to see another local Z owner! Good luck with your car and teaching.

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As long as you are not compromising too much, and appreciate the cost, then the RB25 is going to be a fine swap. Keep in mind the reliability is only going to be as good as you set it up to be. Making sure that everything is well lubricated, easily accessed, well cooled, plumbed sturdily, and wired cleanly and strongly, short of a catastrophic occurrence you should be fine unless the motor in question is prone to catastrophic occurrences. It might even be better in that you will have to plan some of your regular maintenance ahead of time to allow enough time to get in parts, like water pumps etc, so it could even be better.

 

On the other hand, you could pretty easily hit those numbers with minimal cost with the L28et as others have mentioned. 

 

It would require at the bare minimum a turbo manifold, a turbo, and a way to add extra fuel. A step above would be a way to control ignition timing which would either be a distributor from the turbo motor and ECM, or coil packs/EDIS with megasquirt or other spark controller. Once you start pumping up the power you are probably going to need at the minimum a stronger clutch/pressure plate combo, and maybe start looking at the trans options.

 

The L series is pretty reliable, someone I once talked to said he was never surprised when he took a head off of an old L-series and found cross hatching still in place. Doesn't mean they are indestructable, it is still mostly iron and iron rusts and corrodes, so if it wasn't flushed and maintained once in a while it might not be very smooth and pretty inside.

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Zetsa- I'm in Mendon working on a '71 240z as time and funds allow, would love to check out your fuel tank setup sometime when you are down this way.  As for your LS price options, you'd be surprised what they go for on the KSL classifieds, I saw a 5.3 with computer and harness for only $750 a couple of weeks ago.  

 

Always awesome to see another local Z owner! Good luck with your car and teaching.

 

I'd be happy to show it to you sometime! Will probably be in town for a couple weeks around Christmas. You'd have to head to my place, but I could PM you when I'm around and show you the setup. You could probably even give me a couple ideas on cleaning up things I don't need, like the stock charcoal canister and other stuff. 

 

 

Jester, I think if I went with the RB25 I'd definitely be collecting parts for a while before doing the full install. For now my focus is more on body restoration and suspension/brakes/wheels. After I've painted it and feel at least semi-satisfied with the suspension and breaks is the first time I'll seriously look at buying engine upgrades. For now the stock L28 is actually running quite nicely. My biggest beef with it in its stock form is cleaning up things I don't need like the charcoal canister, since the camaro tank has that already, plus what I can do to reroute a few few lines just so everything doesn't look like a scrambles mess in there.

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For those who keep up with my very mediocre build so far, this is sort of the styling I'm going for (but probably not quite as low or with so much negative camber in the rear)

The L28ET will probably fit my needs I think, it's just a matter of finding them and making sure it'll last a while. I've been doing a lot of reading and browsing the last couple nights and I think I might end up going L28ET. Save the RB25 for when things totally blow up and finding parts for the L28et is just not convenient anymore :D

 

http://www.yogapantsandstance.com/originality-is-dead-tonys-datsun/

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Take a nap-it will pass.

 

Took a nap... started thinking about what it would take to get the engine that's already in the car to around 200whp. I've tried reading up on it, but there doesn't seem to be much info on it other than stroker engines. So far all I've REALLY seen is get a better cam, upgrade to MS, header and exhaust, bigger throttle body... and I think that's about it.

 

EDIT: It's purely out of curiosity. I know throwing in a stock L28ET would get me that faster, easier, and probably cheaper. 

Edited by Zetsaz
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You want to know the trick for L28et's? Find the whole car.

 

Keep your eye out for a zx turbo, they pop up from time to time. I think there was one available a week ago at 650$ for the whole car. A couple years ago I found one for 400$, and another for 550$. 

 

If that fails, the only real piece that is nice to have is the turbo manifold. You can go megasquirt and run EDIS or coil packs with a crank wheel or distributor, and you can put a bung in the oil pan pretty easily. The NA manifolds are actually somewhat preferred for the turbo swap, the AFM is not as good as a decent TPS, and the ECM can be a hit or miss. 

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You want to know the trick for L28et's? Find the whole car.

 

Keep your eye out for a zx turbo, they pop up from time to time. I think there was one available a week ago at 650$ for the whole car. A couple years ago I found one for 400$, and another for 550$. 

 

If that fails, the only real piece that is nice to have is the turbo manifold. You can go megasquirt and run EDIS or coil packs with a crank wheel or distributor, and you can put a bung in the oil pan pretty easily. The NA manifolds are actually somewhat preferred for the turbo swap, the AFM is not as good as a decent TPS, and the ECM can be a hit or miss. 

 

I didn't know the whole car was selling cheaper than some engine/trans combos, good to know!

 

Is the last tip still related to just getting a whole car or do you mean if I find an incomplete swap?

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Yea, that really blew my mind. I could buy an engine for 750, or I could get a whole car for 500. I even priced it out. If you sell the front struts to the Datsun 510 guys, rear calipers to a z guy, and part out part of the car, sell the rest off to pick and pull and keep just the driveline, you could end up with a 100-200$ engine depending on how much you paid for the car.

 

The latter portion is in regards to piecing together a turbo setup for the motor you have in the car right now. The L28ET is just an L28 with much lower compression, oil feed, oil drain, and hydraulic lifters. You don't need the hydraulic lifters (actually some people even convert them to solid) and you can find a source for oil and make a bung in your pan pretty easily. The only problem is that you would be a bit limited in how much boost you can run with the relatively higher compression on the NA motor.

 

Other then that you need a turbo manifold, a turbo, the exhaust (which will probably need customization anyway), bigger injectors, a better fuel pressure regulator, intercooler (which the stock L28et doesn't even have), and a way to control ignition (megasquirt with coil control, ZX distributor and ECM, or a locked distributor).

 

Having the actual motor is nice in that you can build it up and just swap it in when you are ready.

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The L28ET is just an L28 with much lower compression, oil feed, oil drain, and hydraulic lifters. You don't need the hydraulic lifters (actually some people even convert them to solid)

 

Not quite right - If I am not mistaken, all '81 and '82 ZXTs have solid lifters, and only '83 ZXTs with the P90a have hydraulic lifters. And I've read that even some of the P90a heads have solid lifters from the factory.

 

I bought my ZXT donor for $600. I still haven't gotten around to parting it out yet all these years later, but I wouldn't be surprised if I break even, or even turn a profit after selling what I don't need.

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Not quite right - If I am not mistaken, all '81 and '82 ZXTs have solid lifters, and only '83 ZXTs with the P90a have hydraulic lifters. And I've read that even some of the P90a heads have solid lifters from the factory.

 

I bought my ZXT donor for $600. I still haven't gotten around to parting it out yet all these years later, but I wouldn't be surprised if I break even, or even turn a profit after selling what I don't need.

 

That sounds awesome! For now I think I'll keep my eye out on either. Converting my own to turbo is way too much of a hassle, especially since I want to bring it up to Washington after next summer and still drive it around. Working on the swap over time and making sure everything is ready then swapping it in all at once is the only reasonable option for me. Good info on the '81/82 vs '83, I appreciate it.

 

I have have the Datsun Z Garage bookmarked and I've been reading as much as I can from there these days. Can't really work on my car right now, so I figure learning as much as possible is the best thing I can do while I start buying essential parts. I'm hoping to buy these books soon too. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931128022?gwSec=1&redirect=true&ref_=s9_simh_gw_p14_d3_i1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931128049?gwSec=1&redirect=true&ref_=s9_simh_gw_p14_d3_i3

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931128030?gwSec=1&redirect=true&ref_=s9_simh_gw_p14_d3_i4

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seattlejester, you mentioned that people like to run tokico springs and some KYB struts as a stage I option for suspension. 

 

Tokico springs aren't really made anymore, and it seems like people are moving to the Vogtland Springs. Stagg struts are the cheaper option, but they come packaged with the KYB too, so I'm thinking of going that route. I don't know if Vogtland springs on Tokico struts would be a better option, but it might be a little too pricey while I'm trying to piece together other things right now.

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I will defer to rturbo, typing that I was a bit skeptical, but I was sure someone would correct me. I believe he is spot on, with only the later '83 cars having hydraulic I think, it has been a while since I've had to recall the exact mechanicals.

 

If you want, I think I have all three books sitting on my shelf. They are good reference to have, but as I no longer have the L series engine, and my car is missing quite a lot of stock components a lot does not apply to me. If you find yourself near seattle I don't mind loaning them out, the how to rebuild your engine one is quite dirty though :).

 

It used to be a highly recommended stage one, Tokico was having some problems with supply, or maybe that was a myth you would have to search for the truth on that so they may be available now, but there was a shortage for a while. And it is just a bit of an upgrade over stock, I've heard the phrase (ride like it's on rails, but I think that expression is highly overused) I think they ride quite nice, over bumps, just one nice solid cycle. On aggressive driving on big dips I rubbed a little bit with about 500lbs of people onboard, but with just me never had a problem. It actually rides nicer then my brand new strut and spring combo I just ordered from Acura OEM for my daily. I actually am planning on selling my setup as I am moving onto a stage up with adjustables, but a 280z is heavier and would probably sit differently. Once again if you find yourself near seattle you are free to hit me up for a ride.

 

I can't speak of the Vogtland spring combo, came out after I had done my suspension so I just know of there existence, there is a thread where someone is having trouble with getting a correct ride height, so I would look into that and see if that was resolved. It was brought to attention by johnc, which is who brought my attention and sold me the KYB/tokico setup, so I'm sure with the correct parts they would ride nicely.

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Thanks for the offer! I think I might just buy them for myself long term and so I can have them as references down the road. The more I've been thinking about it, the more I'm settling into the idea of either and L28ET or just modifying what I have now. Would be better for me as a first swap. I don't wanna have to mess too much with different mounts and custom harnesses. Messing with MegaSquirt will be plenty fun on the L28

 

I got a chance to check out that engine in Bellingham that I posted. The guy seemed to know what he was doing. Had a 260 2+2 with and SR20DET swap. Definitely not buying just yet, but the owner said he'd let me know if he had any other offers and could probably hold onto it until I was able to bring the car up to Washington. His own words "it's not going anywhere." 

 

I'll be reading up more on the strut/spring combos... still undecided on what to go with. 

Edited by Zetsaz
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Slowly adding to my purchase list google doc. One of my priorities is the fuel gauge. I hope this post is useful to anyone searching around. I've done a lot of digging around the forum and I think this is what I'm going with. I found all the data from other posts, but never in the same place.

 

http://www.autometer.com/2-5-8-fuel-level-240e-33-f-sse-pro-comp.html

 

-Stock fuel level gauge in any S30 was 2-5/8" (All center gauges were this size. Tach and speedo are 5")

 

-Stock sending unit ohm range was effectively 0-90 but REVERSED from GM gauges. (E would be F if reading a GM gauge and vice versa)

 

-This is true up until the LS1 sending units/gauges in '99-'02 (perhaps even later, I'm not sure about other LS1 cars)

 

-The LS1 unit is about 250 ohms full and 40 ohm empty (250F-40E)

 

-Standard aftermarket gauges, as far as I've seen only come in 240E-33F, which is close enough for me. Only modification required after putting in the new gauge will be to bend the sending unit to create a mirror image of itself so the readings aren't backwards.

 

Will update this post with pictures of my install either in a couple weeks, or Thanksgiving depending on when I actually visit home. This one of the most important parts to getting my car on the road reliably. 

 

EDIT: If any of this information is wrong, please correct me for my own sake and that of anyone who happens to be reading :)

Edited by Zetsaz
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