Nigel Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Nothing wrong with insurance. You could put in a 500lb Nascar cage too. Those giant rotors are just not worth the unsprung weight gain for me. The giant rotors with aluminum hats weigh less than many smaller one piece rotors. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 As a point of comparison, I weighed a "giant" Modern Motorsports, two piece, 13" rear rotor, and a stock 11.81" Mustang rear rotor. 13" rotor: 11.695lbs 11.81" rotor: 12.705lbs 1.19 inch bigger rotor, yet 1lb lighter. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkspeed Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Wow, 13" rear rotor, really? I've taken rotor temps at the track and could not imagine ever needing anything close to that, especially on the rear. I think you may be missing my point, nothing wrong with upgrading brakes IF YOU NEED TO. But if you are going to spend $700-800 on an axle, why is giant better than just a little bigger? All those big brake kits sold could be even lighter if sized more reasonable. Every pound counts out on the corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Wow, 13" rear rotor, really? I've taken rotor temps at the track and could not imagine ever needing anything close to that, especially on the rear. I think you may be missing my point, nothing wrong with upgrading brakes IF YOU NEED TO. But if you are going to spend $700-800 on an axle, why is giant better than just a little bigger? All those big brake kits sold could be even lighter if sized more reasonable. Every pound counts out on the corners. Like most everything, it’s a compromise. The Modern Motorsports Xtreme rear brake kit uses probably the lightest rear calliper with an integrated parking brake there is out there. However, it’s not particularly “powerful.” Consequently, the leverage of a 13” rotor is needed to generate adequate brake torque, not because of its heat dissipation ability. Yet, by using a two piece rotor, the weight is kept in check, which as you point out, is beneficial. In regards to front brakes, I think you’d be hard pressed to have too much heat dissipation ability. So, a larger diameter rotor is advantageous in that regard, and again, weight can be effectively managed with a two piece rotor. However, where I believe you can easily get in to a situation of overkill is calliper clamping torque. The AZC kit has the largest pistons available for that calliper, and the resulting brake torque they’re capable of is not that far off of what you get on a Nissan GTR, a car that weighs nearly 4000 lbs! Still, if you've got big, sticky rubber on your Z, they work really well and the AZC kit is a great value for the money. But, on a Z with, say 215 wide all-season tires and stock rear drums, they're pointless, if not dangerous. For a street/track car not running fat rubber, I'd still stay with 12" or even 13" 2 piece front rotors, but ideally, it would be helpfully to go to smaller diameter calliper pistons in the same Wilwood calliper (they're already very light) to bring the brake torque down to a level that's more easy to modulate. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkspeed Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I'm not familiar with the MM rear brakes. Sounds like weight was considered. I agree that the ARZ kit is a great deal. You cant duplicate for less. But I do think you can have too much heat sink. Its just more unnecessary weight. A move from 12.19 x 1.25 rotor to a 11.75 x .810 saves 2 lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Surprisingly, based on a recent study by Lotus, who were commissioned to investigate the impact on handling and ride comfort when a 66lb electric motor was added to a wheel, unsprung weight doesn’t matter nearly as much as conventional wisdom dictates. They found that while adding that much mass does degrade handling and ride quality somewhat, it is of their opinion that this could be offset through normal suspension re-tuning. Consequently, in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn’t be particularly concerned about a 2 pound weight difference relative to all of the other factors to take into account during design. http://www.proteanelectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/protean-Services3.pdf Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkspeed Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Interesting article and a compelling argument for motor in wheel. I would believe no degradation in ride quality but performance is another story. I doubt you will see a F1 or LeMans prototype putting their motors there. 2 lbs of unsprung weight may not be noticed by most, but 2 lbs off unsprung rotating mass is heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDatsun Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 i recently purchased the 3T Wilwood big brake setup. running into problems. anyone else purchased them? Bolts aren't long enough to mount the caliper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 McDatsun - can you post pictures and details of issues. Good info posted Nigel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Buy longer bolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDatsun Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 here is an update. i wish i can see inside on how someone mounted em. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/20140723_204042.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/20140723_184946.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/20140723_170600.jpg is this correct? i bought longer bolts. but then the inner caliper has more cap for a pad. so i micro metered in washers and came to about 14.20? also any actual measurements on wheel spec with studs to run 15's on these if possible. im looking into adapters. Dorman 610-240 fronthttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/20140716_170400-1.jpg Dorman 610-310 Rearhttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/20140716_170352.jpg what do you peepz have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-E Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) also any actual measurements on wheel spec with studs to run 15's on these if possible. im looking into adapters. Dorman 610-240 fronthttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/20140716_170400-1.jpg Dorman 610-310 Rearhttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/20140716_170352.jpg what do you peepz have? You mean like so: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/117455-rt-cromoly-60mm-extended-studs-foolish-april-pricing/?p=1101207 Oddly you posted M12x1.25 for fronts and M12x1.5 for rears... ? Edited July 24, 2014 by G-E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDatsun Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Thanks G-E exactly what I was looking for on studs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDatsun Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 so have a contact back from supplier. i had the fat washer i was talking about on wrong place... silly goose. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/xibeacx/unnamed.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDatsun Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) willwoods installeds with all t3 components. on 15's they fit over the whole brake system but hit front caliper plate. so it is possible to run 15s on wilwoods but with a whole spacer deal. will try to have a set with the correct spacer soon heres some photos also on the wheel studs i have chosen with an updated DORMAN stud book with closest measurements to 240z studs of what i can find. the last book was dated up to 2000. so yea... dorman 610-323 is what i went with the 1.5 thread. massive welds. went about 1/2 inch lower on the towers since I've seen most Z'splates on top it seemed like the shock nut would hit the hood. Bow chica wow wow Edited August 7, 2014 by McDatsun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Out of curiosity, did you go with the "swiss cheese" rotors for less weight or because you like the looks of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianZortiz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The AZC are a bit larger than the TTT front BBK if i'm not mistaken. Can you get drilled cross rotor with AZC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 The kits use Wilwood rotors, so you can get a large selection. The Ultralight Drilled rotors (shown above) are designed for circle track cars where brakes are not run hard and have low to medium temps. Running them on a road course would be BAD....warping and distorting. I run hard on road courses and went with the GT 36 Vane slotted rotors, which are the most durable for extreme use. When I worked with Wilwood on my brakes, the guys there told me that the only reason they drilled the rotors used on street cars is because people pay for the looks. Unless rotating weight is what you are after, getting rid of surface area cuts down on performance and all you need is slots to clear hot gases and pad buildup. You will also get stress cracks at the holes on brakes that are run hard (track days), Then again, if you don't plan to run your car hard on road courses, then it may not ever be an issue. If you like how they look, then go for it. Just get the right brakes & rotors for your application and driving use. http://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorList1.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Are the calipers on the TTT and AZC setup the same? Looks like the AL hats are designed pretty much the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Yes, same calipers...Wilwood Superlites. The differences are in rotor choice and hat construction. The biggest difference is if you look at the TTT setup, it has extra holes in the hats and the UltraLite rotors (300mm / 11.81"), which would certainly mean less unsprung weight. This would be great in a street car, autocross or track day on street tires. (maybe DOT race rubber in a lower HP car) If you plan to run race rubber and have high horsepower, you would want to go with the AZC setup, as that rotor (310mm / 12.19") & hat are up to the task of full-on, high speed track days where you will hammer the brakes like you would on a full race car. Of course, the track would also have an impact on how hard the brakes are used, as would driving skill. That being said, both would be fine for street car with regular "enthusiastic" driving, but one is better for extreme driving, which is small number of us on here, anyway. Hope that helps. Edited August 8, 2014 by Savage42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.