Rob L Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Yup you guys are right ....its a few things now. I like the analogy with the wack -o-mole...thats what its starting to feel like. So my flywheel is stock ....i have now put a new battery...new starter....new igniton coil...new plugs, wires, cap , and rotor. So whats left to check ....well ...im going to go over everything in the fuse box...change my battery cables....test the coil with a meter while turning ignition...will do the same with the starter again.....then slowly check all the wiring . My first step will be to get it cranking again.... then i will go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 My initial impressions is that I'm with Tony, sounds like a hydroloc with gas or ignition timing order is off. You have to solve each problem as a piece before you look at the whole. If the engine was indeed hydrolocked then continually cranking it is really bad for it. Make sure it isn't hydrolocked. You need to establish that it isn't the engine seizing by cranking by hand. Fact is that it should be battery powers starter, starter turns flywheel, flywheel turns crank, crank turns rods (rod pushes up cylinder) and pulley, pulley turns cam gear, cam gear turns cam, cam turns fuel pump and cam turns rocker. If the engine isn't cranking by hand something is happening there. Take the rocker cover off and make sure that everything is as it should be, no valves have dropped, the cylinders are hissing when you turn over by hand. You can also pull the starter and confirm good activation and voltage as Newzed mentioned. if you pull off the dirt cover plate you should be able to see the fly wheel spin by prying up on it. Once you know the mechanicals are good then onto the next step. Make sure you are not in gear. If you can't crank by hand, try taking off the spark plugs, if any fluid comes out and the engine cranks, then you have flooded again. Once you have determined that the engine is cranking as it should, then we start adding things to the equation. Give us some voltage values, you mentioned you have a meter, let us know the values while cranking of the battery, let us know the value that the starter sees during cranking as NewZed describes. Timing order is also a factor, before getting up in arms, unless you have been the only owner, keep in mind the PO may have installed the distributor shaft clocked or the rotor incorrectly. Confirming top dead center and the timing values will be a big help here to keep you from chasing your tail. As mentioned the firing order is 153624. It should start at the indicated 1 cylinder, but if the distributor shaft is clocked or something it will start at the cylinder that the rotor just passed when the crank is pointing at TDC. Bottom line is to make sure the engine cranks over nicely by hand. Then go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So whats left to check ....well ...im going to go over everything in the fuse box...change my battery cables....test the coil with a meter while turning ignition...will do the same with the starter again.....then slowly check all the wiring . You could be done by now if you learned how to use that meter. With a meter you don't look at the parts you look at what they're doing. Shiny new cables don't matter if the battery post is covered with a thin layer of insulating corrosion. Test resistance from the positive post to the fitting, from the post to the starter lug, from the negative post to various ground points (block, body, starter body, etc.). Just look at the numbers on the meter and fix the things that are wrong. It's very fast. If you look at old wires, and crusty old parts without testing them you'll just end up replacing a bunch of stuff that was fine and probably creating new problems. "using multimeter" will get you a bunch of tutorials on the Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey thanks seattlejester .....and everybody else who is taking the time to help me. I'm also going to take the fan off and try to crank it by hand ....I'm gonna try everything that has been mentioned and let you guys know . And if it isn't obvious yet ....yes this is my first carbureted and antique car . Every other car I have ever owned my entire life just needed a computer hooked up to it so it can tell you what's wrong lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey new zed ...I hear ya on the meter ....the problem is ...is the only meter I haven ATM is a multi meter that is way out of my league ....options on there that I would never use ...and when I watch the "how too " videos on google the symbols don't match up and gets confusing ....I'm going to go get just a basic 15 dollar meter that the how to videos use and will definitely try all of that before just replacing wires willy nilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Just want to give my 2 cents and reinforce what a lot of others are saying. If I were you this is what I'd do to investigate the two most probable causes of this within 5 minutes without a multi meter: 1) Remove spark plugs. Look into the holes and see if you can see or smell gas. Crank the motor, confirm that it will crank like this while also clearing any fuel from the cylinders. - If there is significant wet fuel in the cylinders thats your problem. If not proceed to step 2 because thats probably the problem. 2) Replace the spark plugs and wires, loosen the lower distributor bolts, mark its position and then play with it and see if the engine behaves differently when you crank it. Then I'd look at the valvetrain/cam and its alignment, then I'd take out a meter. Doesn't sound like a problem with the starter or its wiring to me. Probably the dizzy stuck advanced. Quadruple check the plug wire order too if you hadn't. Edited June 18, 2015 by Gavin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Damn work keeps getting in the way !....hopefully this weekend i can try all the suggestions !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If you have trouble with the symbols you can buy a cheap one from I believe your canada tire. You only really need 2 settings to diagnose most things that is the voltage setting, and then the continuity setting. The symbols are universal so they should match up, but if thats what is holding you up, grab a new one with matching symbols. It is roughly 5$ for a digital multimeter nowadays. As gavin says give that a shot. The list should be, crank or try to crank by hand. You really only need access to the crank pulley, but with the radiator in the way it might not be the easiest I imagine. If it has a hard spot, then pull the spark plugs and see if any fluid comes out. If any does smell the fluid, find out if it is gas or coolant (I suspect gas, a flooded holley carb is not the strangest thing to occur). With the spark plugs out and the distributor disconnected turn the starter and it should spit out the fluid pretty well. Then from there have the carb looked at by a professional if you are unfamiliar. If there is no fluid, and no hard sport when turning by hand etc, then time to check the ignition. Take the cap off the distributor with the engine at TDC. The rotor should have just passed the wire corresponding to cylinder #1. These cars have oil pumps that also drive the distributor, and there are many stories of previous owner's installing them backwards or off and then moving the spark plug order to compensate. You have to visually confirm this by looking at the rotor underneath the cap. Confirm the cam timing as well by checking for bunny ears with the rocker cover off. Also inspect for any dropped valves or a valve train hesitation. Once everything is confirmed hook everything back up and get some voltage readings. It really is important to learn how to use a multimeter, it is a really easy thing to learn and can help so much in diagnosis. I'm even tempted to say to leave the fuel pump off while cranking and even pull the carb and spray some starter fluid as I fear a float sank and flooded the motor. Without more information though that is just a guess I am stuck on. Lots of good tips have been provided by many members, just make a list and check it off, and let us know. Even if we are completely off, it can help shift our focus elsewhere. Good luck sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ok so it's problem after problem ...with this car after I fix one thing there's another problem ....sooooo ...put a wrench on the crank spun it over by hand and it moves freely and just a little gas came out of cylinder 6. Again to reiterate ....brand new battery ...voltage is 12.6 and doesn't drop when cranked . Starter works now ...cranks over the motor no problem . So I had spark last week ...this week the problem is no spark ! Put the meter on the ignition coil ....cranked it over ...and no reading at all ....no power getting to the coil ! The + wire to the ignition coil is good but seems not to be providing power . So can it be the ballast ? At this point I have no idea and would just be replacing parts just to try it out . I think this is now a wiring problem ...and I hate wires lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 No gas should have came out at all. So this hints toward hydrolock caused by gas. The carb needs to be adjusted and the floats checked if that is the case. Just deal with each problem as they come. The engine cranks easy now, don't let it seize again, fix what caused it to seize (the carbs it seems like). Regarding spark, find the ignition based power wire and trace it until the power disappears. You have to get in the right mind set, seems good is not good enough. Turn the multi-meter to continuity and check that the wire is good by checking if it has continuity to its starting point. Just hammer them out you'll get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I have already taken care of the carb that is not the issue anymore ....carb is fixed ....there is no hydro locking issues anymore or issues with the carb . The issue now is a wiring issue ....for example my negative battery terminal was looking pretty shabby ....when I cranked the car I got no fuel pump sound but it would turn over ....today I changed my negative battery cable it ...again it turned over but no fuel pump sound . So I took the positive side off looked at it and put it back on and that's it ...now when I turn the ignition to crank the engine it doesn't turn over anymore and the fuel pump turns on at the point that the engine should crank ...when the fuel pump should be turning on just by turning the key Into position number one ..... I have no idea what's causing this new issue now so I'm going to go ahead and change the positive battery cable to and see what that Does Edited June 26, 2015 by theatriks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Let me correct myself ...the fuel pump comes on when I crank it if the ignition wire is not on the tab on the starter ....if the ignition wire is on the tab of the starter it cranks over but no fuel pump .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Coil power wire is good ...it seems as if it's wired to the tach I tested as close to tach as possible there was a steel plate in the way ...but the wires good just no power going to the coil Edited June 26, 2015 by theatriks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 So today I replaced my positive battery cable ...and I think my old cable was shot . The reason I say this is because after putting new battery cables in ...I think it made the short visible now because I can't even connect my battery cables to the battery without sparks flying from the terminals ....I triple checked my cable install and it's fine ......I tried with 2 different starters and the same problem ....now just to find what's pulling power for it to spark like that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 One cable or two? Maybe you're putting them on the wrong terminals. You're not really using that meter are you? You said you "put the meter on the ignition coil" but didn't report any numbers. You can check for a short to ground before you connect the battery. No need to look for sparks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Battery issue is fixed . The ignition coil is still getting no readings ...looking for the issue ...using the multi meter on continuity selection ...testing all wires that lead to lhe coil . Had spark tester on ...getting no spark and coil is getting no power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 What year is your car? In your opening posy you said you have a 260 engine but were not clear about the car. If the coil positive lead goes to the tach you have the so-called 4-wire tach that triggers from the current in the positve coil wire. With this system, if the tach is disconnected the ingition will not get any power and therefore the engine will not run. Test the voltage at the positive terminal of the coil with the key on. There should be +12 volts (battery voltage). If you have an electronic ignition the voltage may not stay on for long without the engine running so have a freind crank the engine while you take the reading. If you get nothing, trace circuit back one component or joint at a time until you find voltage. The last section without voltage is the problem area. If you have a 260Z, and the ignition system is still original, the ingition module is in the passenger footwell under the dash. Check the connection to the module. Make sure the pins are clean and shiny, and fit tightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Thanks I will try all of that ....the car is a 10/74 260z stock motor .....I have tested the coil and there's nothing it's not getting power ..traced the power wire back to under the dash just before the tach ...and it's good ...I will check for the module . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac_Man Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Looking over a wiring diagram, the coil seems to be fed 12v via the ignition switch. According to the diagram there is a green/white wire going from the switch to the tach, then continues out the tach as a black and white wire which leads to the coil. I suppose you could hook up a wire from a known 12v switched source to the coil and see if that works. Assuming the coil is grounded, there's nothing based on the wiring diagram that would make me think it could cause issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thanks for all the help guys ! I'm sure if you guys had the car in front of you ...you could probably have it running ... I unfortunately am caught in a vicious circle with this car and have decided to send her to my local Datsun specialist ...I'm not one to give up ....But.,,, This car keeps vapor locking on me ...I have drained the oil twice and she still gets filled . The carb is fine I'm 95% sure ...it has electric fuel pump ...running at 3 psi . It's a Holley 4 barrel 450cfm list 4548. When I turn on the ignition the fuel pump turns on and stays on ....I look down thru the venturies and don't see any fuel its dry ...floats are set properly . Maybe I don't know enough about carbs ...but my understanding is the carb will only release fuel if the throttle linkage is pulled on. I have tried starting the car a lot but have never touched the gas pedal a lot ....a quick tap here and there and that's it but yet the motor keeps getting lots of gas in it so this is were I keep circling around and decided to let Tom the local Datsun guy fix it....I know he will figure it out and I will post what the problem was when this is finally over with hopefully .... Anyways time for a brew . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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