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gacksen

Fender flare position

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Hypertek    11

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My pics probably suck I know, but what I did was look at all my favorite JDM Z cars with flares on and compare them. My flares are marugen shoukai, so the good fitment made it a little easier, just matched up to where it fit the best. I think the front of your flare looks good. The rear portion was the tricky part, as there is no body crease to rest it on. What I did was look at that rear bottom rivet point, match it to around the bottom of the rear bumper area.

 

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gacksen    1

thx for the input. the front portion sits very good and snugs just over the edge. will try to bend the rear part more inwards and get new pictures. problem on the rear part had been the edge of the fender. will take a look at it the next days. bought the fenders from rhd japan and manufacturer is restored.jp your marugen look nice. perfect fit

 

just finished most of the wiring today

 

IMG_20150629_181915.jpg

Edited by gacksen

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gacksen    1

Yeah, forward. Not a fan of when the back sits further back. Here's mine a few years back...

 

looking good :) played around yesterday a bit with the position and if i want to close the rear gap with the fender flare my bolt position

woulnt be any more on the flat metal part it would be almost on top of the fender lip edge.

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gacksen    1

just read the thread with the zg ones. youre right mine are way to low. have found a picture

of 240hokes car with the first attempt i guess.

 

flares.jpg

 

if you compare front and rear height quite a difference. my wheels are not that

special with beeing 16x8 et0. will put some spacers under front rear to adjust ones

flares are fitted. will need to sort an issue with the wiring of the greddy gauage today.

didn´t think it could be that complicated to find +- and ign power. took + from the clock

power supply. put in a new line for - to the batt that the gauage will read fine and hooked

up the ign power to the solid yellow cable of the old water oil gauge. when ign is turned 

on gauge reads perfect and updates values right away. once the engine is running

gauage sort of hangs up and just updates values every 30 or 50 seconds. suspect it has

something to do with the ign power of the old gauage. maybe some sort of voltage regulator

inbetween.

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gacksen    1

hm quite strange. thought i wire it the easy way via the fusebox but same issue. with just ignition on gauge works perfect and shows values straight away. with engine running gauge does not update values.

 

ign i took from the fuse box now green solid cable. continious mains from horn circut at the fuse box and minus direct from the batt.

 

if the wiring would be wrong the gauge shouldnt work at all with ignition on ?

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RebekahsZ    106

There are two justifications for fender flares: looks and tire clearance. The guys who install for looks put them low and run small diameter wheels and tires and get all worried about having too much clearance between the tire and the flare. The guys who do them for tire clearance do a max resection of sheetmetal, then use the flares to un-Mad-Max the car and make it look like a Z again. After a max resection of sheetmetal, I can fit 28" tall tires at a reasonable ride height. I still had to cut the leading edge of the flare down due to the forward position of the tire in the wheel well, which has already been discussed.

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gacksen    1

fixed the greddy gauage problem. chinese crap :D fault had been the greddy control unit. if each sensor get´s connected

with one wire to the greddy loom and with the other one to ground no problem. inital wiring had been correct. normally

would need to replace the control unit but it seems an easy fix and i dont have to sent it back where i bought it overseas.

 

as for the flares tried it today with some tape and pushed them around. no problem to adjust them higher but getting away

of the hole behind the wheel is not possible without welding plates in to get the look with the rear wheel in the middle. if you put

metal in would bring me to antoehr paint job :(

 

need to put on the front fender first to have an impression with the raised rears. at a higher position the fender flare

is almost aligned perfectly with the regular lip but of course still the gap on the rear.

Edited by gacksen

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bjhines    33

I have done a few sets, both bonded and bolted on. There is no right way to do them. I have always needed them for tire clearance and fit them according to the positions of the tires.

 

A general rule seems to be that the lower edge of the flares can be the same height as the original fender edges. You place the tip of the flare so the it starts at the lower body detail/fillet line and set it so the inner edge is even with the original height. On the fronts; make sure your tires don't hit the front edge of the flares or the airdam sides(this is a typical problem area).

 

With that said, Many folks have changed the positions of the wheels under the body with increased caster up front and increased toe in under the rear. That has lead to many RE-DOs of fender flares in the past. I have seen so many people get the car out for the first time and then find that the flares are not in the right place for clearance and looks.

With any car build you need to have your suspension and tires figured out first. then modify the bodywork to fit them.

 

Tire rub inside wheel well. This is with typical fender rolling work and the suspension is bound against the halfshafts. We need more room.

Rub%20Marks%206_zpsrqof3p6p.jpg

 

 

Layout for placement.

IMAG3651_zpsa7z4ofdl.jpg

 

 

Initial cut.

IMAG3653_zpszwm3t53h.jpg

 

 

 

Cut and filler strip.

IMAG3660_zpshi5y2wyy.jpg

 

 

Welded and trimmed.

IMAG3661_zpsujocwqwy.jpg

IMAG3677_zpssfn7z85a.jpg

 

 

Temporary clamping screw for glue.

Media%20dump%20May%202015%20406_zpsxbpt1

 

 

Fillet

Media%20dump%20May%202015%20412_zps6jgxj

 

 

Screws removed and fillets done

Media%20dump%20May%202015%20440_zpsdxuvs

 

 

Ready for paint

Media%20dump%20May%202015%20450_zpsf05cn

 

 

Off to the races

Media%20dump%20May%202015%20726_zpspt5pb

 

 

and they still hit just slightly under hard acceleration, uphill, apexing over the gators. dammit, but this is not a problem with the flares just a little more metal relief to do.

Media%20dump%20May%202015%20760_zpskf4it

Edited by bjhines

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RebekahsZ    106

We cut mine so that the roof of the inner fender was completely flat. I can run 28" slicks. As BJ suggested, ya gotta have the tires on it that you intend to run. My pic below may look extreme, but this is the same flare position shown in the road race photo above.

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post-5903-0-97980300-1439419210_thumb.jpg

Edited by RebekahsZ

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gacksen    1

thx for the pictures. i do get the point now in moving them upwards that they won´t sit as low.

had to much regular work the last weeks so could not motivate myself to get back working on the car.

got it back from the paintshop two weeks ago that got rid of some overpainted old rubber seals and

in the meantime fabbed up new TB for my rover v8

 

IMG_20150714_WA0002.jpg

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RebekahsZ    106

Very cool! I'm not sure we mentioned this, but the interference point for tire rub is actually a little FORWARD of the apex of the fender arch. So if you can, cheat your flares toward the front of the car. You will notice in my last pictures that I have eliminated a good portion of the "dog leg" of the rocker panel. Same for the front. When/if you go to reslly wide front tires, they will conflict with the front of the fender arch and the rear edge of the airdam. SunnyZ's car shows how far forward you should cheat the front fender flare. If I can find a pic I will post it. Might as well eliminate the front side markers-they are in the way if you do flares "right". I think SunnyZ is running 17x9.5 with 275/45/17 tires. You only have to cheat forward if you plan to turn your steering wheel. It's not necessary if your car is a static display.

post-5903-0-44372900-1439644082_thumb.jpg

Edited by RebekahsZ

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@rebekahsz

 

Which flares from which vendor do you use and what is the offset of your drag wheels?

 

I know I'm going to need flares, I'm just not 100% on which ones.  I'll be going with wfritts911's IRS rear setup.

 

I was looking at maybe a 17x9.5 -20 for the rear with a 275/40 and 17x8.5 -10 front with a 245/45.

 

Mostly those wheel sizes because the Rota RKR come in 4x114.3 and 5x114.3.

 

My napkin math makes it look like the wheels will clear the suspension, and the extra width dealt with by flares.  The rears would stick out ~2.5" over the stock wheels/tires I have now.

Edited by bramagedained

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gacksen    1

will go also with the RKR but with smaller tyre sizes like 225 and 245

 

didnt do much those days due to regular work. put in more interior and hazzled around with the headliner. finally got it in but it felt as you need 10x hands to get it done properly. sides had been way more easy with the heat gun.

front windscreen is back in now. exchanged the gearbox to a fresh rebuilt one with perfect synchros and still not shifting properly. bled the clutch and it was not getting better. have taken a deeper look into this and it seems

a wrong master slave combo had been used on the car. currently in is the regular 240z master and the slave with the adjustable pushrod of the 240z. ordered the pathfinder one and a 3/4 master of a toyota and will switch rods to

make it fit. hopfully will have enough throw after that.

 

headliner.jpg

 

btw. one of you guys is familiar with the dizzy curves on a L28 ? just have taken a look at the 123 tune that had been on it and it looks like the all in advance is quite late ?

 

tune123.jpg

Edited by gacksen

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JMortensen    235

You shouldn't need a different master with the adjustable slave. In fact you can swap the pin with a non-adjustable slave to make it adjustable. Sounds like it isn't adjusted right, or something else is going wrong. My fear is that if you use a 3/4" master it will either hyper-extend the pressure plate fingers or push the slave cylinder all the way out.

 

Your distributor looks like it might be getting some vacuum advance at higher rpms. If you have the stock 280ZX distributor and take the vacuum advance off or lock it down, then you should get 17 or 18 degrees mechanical, and you can look at the bottom of the plate with the centrifugal weights and it will tell you which one you have. When I was running an L28 with triples that's what I did, and just set the timing for something like 17 or 18 degrees at idle to get mid 30s at all in, which I think happens at about 2500. 

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gacksen    1

after the new gearbox had been in i tried the following. adjusted the slave pushrod so that no slack had been on the fork. drove the car and crunch had been there in all the gears. more noticeable in 1/2/3 than 4/5.

next adjusted the pushrod on the slave with more force means the throwoutbearing pressing on the pressure plate with not engaged clutch. after having done this there was also crunch but not that bad as before.

this would bring me to the conclusion that the slave has not enough throw to fully disengange the clutch. next step is either to reduce the bore of the slave or increase the bore of the master or do both to increase

throw on the slave. is my math wrong in this point ?

 

the dizzy is the tune 123 with disconnected vac. this had been the tune that was one it after it had the triple weber 45 rebuilt and was on the dyno. have read a lot of threads and the consens seemd that the the all in

advance should come in between 2500 and 3200 rpm so i aksed myself why in this case they bring it in quite late at 4000.

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JMortensen    235

after the new gearbox had been in i tried the following. adjusted the slave pushrod so that no slack had been on the fork. drove the car and crunch had been there in all the gears. more noticeable in 1/2/3 than 4/5.

next adjusted the pushrod on the slave with more force means the throwoutbearing pressing on the pressure plate with not engaged clutch. after having done this there was also crunch but not that bad as before.

this would bring me to the conclusion that the slave has not enough throw to fully disengange the clutch. next step is either to reduce the bore of the slave or increase the bore of the master or do both to increase

throw on the slave. is my math wrong in this point ?

I haven't adjusted a Z clutch since maybe 2000, but from what I remember, the spring retracts the slave so I want to say there was a little free play between the adjuster and the fork. I set mine to disengage about 50mm off the floor. The fact that yours won't disengage says to me that something else is wrong. Bad master, or slave, or air in the system. But the size of the manual adjust slave isn't any different, so I don't see why yours won't disengage but everyone else's will. Unless your parts are different sizes for some strange reason, it should work.

 

I'm not following you on the dizzy stuff so I'll leave that to someone else.

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