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Guest Anonymous

SR20DET in a 240Z, problems????

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Guest Anonymous

I'm curious to know if anyone has installed a SR20DET (S13-S14) into their 240Z?? If so please reply and inform me of the possible complications involved in doing so. I'm trying to get all the help I can before I purchase the SR20DET. Thanks.

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Guest Ian turbo240

I'm sorry I can offer any tech advice on the SR20DET 240Z swap. However, I have to ask "why do you want to do that?" This is a very opinionated post, so if you get offended easily you may not want to read any further. I think that putting a 4 cylinder in a car that originally had a 6 is rediculous. Here is the reason. If you are going to go to the trouble of installing a non-L6 turbo engine in a Z, why an engine of lesser power than the turbo L6? The S13 Silvia engines were about 170HP. A turbo L6 can do better than that stock, and more torque to boot. All of this with much less fabrication hassle. You will undoubetly need to run a Silvia transmission because the Z trans will not bolt to the SR20. If you are looking for a lightweight engine, why not a 20B rotary Mazda? Those can be modded to 500+ hp and are very light weight. How about a VG30ET or VG30DETT. Those have some serious HP potential. The SR20 IMHO is not as great an engine as it is cracked up to be. I've seen many of them with broken bottom ends. Things like spun rod and main bearings. Plus, the HP potential of the SR20DET is only about 300 without very serious mods. Truthfully, the stock bottom end will not hold up under the stress of more than 300hp. You have to remember that the SR20 is an all aluminum engine, and the block starts to flex under high-HP loads.

 

This is all just a rant, but I truly think that installing a 4-cylinder engine in a Zcar is an insult to the car. I can't think of a better way to rice-out a Z than installing a 4-cylinder. Keep in mind that this is just my opinion, but man, you can do better than that. What's this swap gonna cost you? Wouldn't it be better spent on an RB20DET or RB25DET? I can think of tons better engines than the SR20. If you really want an SR20DET, why don't you put it in a 510? There have been many documented SR20DET into 510 swaps. The 510 would be faster than the Z because it's lighter.

 

I guess I've gone on enough. I don't usually do that, but damn, don't put a 4cylinder in a Zcar!

 

Ian

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Guest Anonymous

I understand where your coming from and was only curious about the swap. I'm actually leaning tword swapping in a VG30DETT in my 240Z. I have heard that its a tight fit, but I think that it's probobly the best swap and staying Nissan. If anyone has the 411 on the swap and could pass on some swap info down my way I would really appreciate it. Thanks yall. Hail the all mighty

 

hail.gif NISMO!

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Guest AlsoRanFPrepared

I have to comment...

 

The SR20DET can be a great motor to swap. It all depends on what you are doing with the car. Is it a daily driver? drag racer? Dedicated autocross car? Boulevard pimping? It all depends on the intent for the car. For simplicity the L-series cant be beat as it will basically be a bolt in mod. Anything else will require fabrication. If you are not trying to seriously autocross or roadrace the car you would likely be better served by a aluminum headed American V8.

 

The S13 was rated by the factory at 205HP. Achieving 300 HP at the crankshaft usually entails more boost, an intercooler and some reprogramming. As with any turbo motor more power quickly comes from more boost. Stock bottom ends on the SR20DET have survived 400 HP and many consider that to be the limit of the stock components. Power costs money and with any motor if you want big reliable HP it will cost you. I have seen many Chevy and Ford bottom ends let go too. I have even seen spun rod and main bearings on the L-series. It always depends on the individual motor and the application.

 

The large benefit for the SR20DET is the weight. Being an all aluminum motor it will drop the weight considerably when compared to an L-series or iron block V-series. Are you trying to build a 1500# car? If not again the US V8 looks promising. If you are the L28 is pretty darn heavy and wont leave much for the chassis. One other benefit to the 4 cylinder is the length. Having less length will allow its center of gravity to be placed further back in the chassis.

 

The aftermarket and replacement parts for the RB-series is much weaker here in the US than the SR20's. That is a consideration when deciding to modify either motor. Lots of people have installed that motor in the 510 and Sentra.

 

Complaining that the car should have a 6 or an 8 cylinder is in my opinion weak. An insult? Why exactly do you feel that way? I think it may be more of an insult to put an American V8 in than a Nissan 4 cylinder but who cares this is HybridZ.org isnt it? How many cylinders does a rotary equal? Is it equivlant to a 6 cylinder? What is the rotor to piston conversion factor? The CG on those rotarys are indeed low but they are not light. And the 4 cylinder being rice? Rice usually referres to something done for show not go. The SR20DET in stock form will out go the stock and even moderately modified L24.

 

Really consider the use of the car carefully and pick the motor based on that. If you are drag racing the Chevy or Ford offerings will be a good way to go fast. Boulevard pimping requires nothing except perhaps some neon or a wing. If you are autocrossing lighter weight is always better as more HP doesnt always make the car faster. Road racing usually allows for the use of more power which may lend itself to larger displacement/higher power motor, however, as with autocrossing the lighter you can make the car the better. If you are making a daily driver you need to consider reliability at the HP levels you are looking for which will likely place the V8 in front again. I cant say it enough choose the motor for the desired use.

 

-Mark

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Guest 280Tom'z

well heres what i can contribute. i know cars, i don't think, and i haven't heard, i know specs. the SR20DET has a bottom end capable of 500rwhp. i've thought about doing this swap but fell in love with simplicy and overall goodness of the L28 just my opinon. i think it would be a really cool one off swap its a really strong block easy to upgrade and just as cheep or cheeper than any other nissan engine or the cost of a V8 and think of all the room for intercooling pipe and you might end up with a car that is NASTY fast and handels like an indy car because of the weight. so i say go fot it Nissan power all the way

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man not again. im going to hold back, although i have one thing to say, what i like about the l turbo swap is that im having a complete ball everyday in this car, its silky smooth, makes great power, and mechanically yes, its an r and r, i also know a guy that didnt change his gas tank for the swap, he does keep his gas level high, but has had no problems cornering hard and has run 13.4 at some ungodly mph with stock internals, stock tb, stock turbo ecu and afm, and 16psi on a starion intercooler, i think thats really really good considering he does it on a stock t3 and 2" ic piping and a bone stock l28et with

pumped up boost. im hooked on turbos, theyre just sick.

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Guest Anonymous

No problems on the swap, just problems getting people to accept the idea without losing they' mind. bonk.gif

Seriously, there was a long post about this very swap that (like this one) got heated. I have to admit I was all, go v8, more torque etc etc, but you know I've gotten more tolerent and the idea has grown on me. It'll have little bottom end torque, but will be light and fast and well I can't see how theres anything wrong with that if you can live with that sort of powerband. (which truthfully isn't like that hard to live with or any worse than a v8 car with a big cam in it)

Truthfully, I wish someone we knew here at HybridZ would do that swap, just so we can all find out what its like, how it goes and how someone likes it. I think thats whats really neat about the different swaps, finding out how they go and if it met the swappers needs. Good luck with it bud.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

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Guest Ian turbo240

Too all who were offended by my post. Yes, I may have overstepped my boundries a bit by using words like "rice" and "insult". However, I did warn that it was going to be an opinionated post. I realize that here at Hybridz any engine swap should be accepted and maybe even encouraged. However, I couldn't help voicing my opinion. There are pros and cons to every engine swap, I just don't think (IMHO) the pros outweigh the cons on this one. And that is my opinion. I expected some people to dissagree. What it comes down to is:

It's your car, you can do whatever you want with it. Hopefully, with the help of these forums, someone out there will provide you with the info you need. Good luck.

 

Ian

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Try the Bluebird (510) list as the SR20DET is becomming a popular swap with them. However we just went through the weight issue thread. The SR20DET fully dressed with tranny weighs 490 lbs per Sport Compact Car in their swap chronicled in May,02. A 5.0 with Al heads, intake, flywheel, and T-5 will be almost exactly the same weight. You will also spend a lot $$ upgrading to get the potential hp out of the SR20DET.

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Guest ON3GO

well sense i started the other thread ill post for the heck of it.

the SR20DET is a strong ass motor... it loves boost. they are super strong, parts are pretty cheap, they will leave alot of room in the Z's engine bay, and i think will be a easy swap.

im still thinking about it if the 7M-GTE motor doesnt work out.

ive seen SR20DET powered 240sx which weigh in about 2900lbs with a upgraded turbo and some other little mods, NO INTERNAL WORK! spank vipers with bolt ons from stops and walk hard on BPU'ed supras from rolls....

i say go for the swap!

as a owner of a VG powered car (1993 300zx) i say NO to the VG30DETT motor, its a pain to work on, parts cost alot, and stupid turbo swaps can be as much as 5k+.. for get that.. plus the injectors suck but they are strong motors i will say that and can be made very fast but for alot more money.

 

mike

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Guest Anonymous

I reckon the SR20DET would make for a very slick swap indeed. I own an S15 Silvia (SR20DET) and a '73 240Z and can see lots of sense in a transplant like that. The S15 is an awesome car to drive. Very quick, light weight and handles like a go-kart. It seems to be a no-brainer to extract 200rwkw with simple bolt-ons to an SR20DET without breaking the bank. Yes, in the Zed you'd have to run the Silvia gearbox but that's a good thing. They're strong, slick shifting and fit right in there without drama. There's also the option of a 6 speeder if you're so inclined. The car would be quick as hell both in a straight line and around corners and while the v8 boys are spending their weekends replacing half-shafts ........

 

Sounds like a hoot !!

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I am currently helping my buddy swap and sr20det into his 3rd gen RX-7. He has the motor mocked in the car and we cut the cross member and created a new cross member. I will post pics of the swap early next week. BTW, it is a clean swap with plenty of room and quite easy.

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First off I have to say that even though opinions are opinions, a lot of the stuff that Ian said was false information. Not to nitpick or anything but just as someone else said the S13 Sr20 is rated at 205 not 170. It's the CA18 that's rated around 170(actually 175 i think). The motorset isn't too heavy weighing in around 490-500, but IIRC rotary engines are pretty heavy themselves. With an SR20 300rwhp is easily achieved. The block is strong as anything too. I've heard of over 400whp on a stock block. These guys are running bigger turbo, upgraded fuel, some have cams, and all that kind of stuff but nothing extreme.

 

Maybe i'm biased because i'm a 240SX guy, but i have always been a Z guy at heart, just never had the funds to do what you guys are doing. I think the SR20 is one of nissan's strongest engines. The aftermarket in the US for this engine is growing by the day. It has been a tuner favorite in Japan for over a decade now and the parts are coming over more and more. With this engine you can build a quick Z, with the correct sized turbo you it will still spool quickly and make power to redline and you could be making easily 300 at the wheels.

 

I think this would be a great swap for someone to do. Many people have pointed out other good reasons for it, such as the better weight balance due to the shorter length of the engine. Sure there are engines that will make more hp and torque but it's everyones opinions. In my opinion i don't like the idea of putting an american V8 in a Z but obviously there are a lot of people around here who would disagree with me. Personally i would choose the RB26 if i were doing a swap, this is a swap that i promise you i will do before i die. The vg30dett is a good engine but i forget who it was but he was supposedly a z swap guru or something like that and he said he did this swap and would never do it again. He said besides the major pita of getting the engine in, there just isn't enough room to actually work on it. A complaint a lot of z32 guys echo.

 

Well this is starting to get a little long, but this is just one of those topics that gets this way. Anyway, i hope the swap gets accomplished at some point by somebody it's something i would love to see.

 

Tim

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i am 100% certain that 500lbs for an sr20det motor is incorrect. My neon's 122cid (2 liter) motor with cast iron block and aluminum head weighs 242lbs. I seriously doubt the SR20det's tranny weighs more than 100lbs - the Z's 5 speed tranny weighs about about 80lbs, i've lifted them with ease

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about the weight thing. That is what i got from sport compact cars article about the swap into a 240sx. I just said it wasn't that heavy because compared to what i have right now, which is a 240sx, the motor in that weighs about the same. this weight includes all the manifolds and tranny and all other stuff on the engine, not just the block and head. just didn't know if you guys were considering that too.

 

tim

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Guest Anonymous

I can't remember the exact numbers, but they go something like this.

 

sr20det

 

s13: 202hp-203lb/ft torque

 

s14: 22#something hp-202lb/ft torque

 

s15: 247hp-203lb/ft torque

 

I got the stats from a 'Sport Compact Car' magazine, but I can't find that issue.

 

On a side note, however, I've read that a ca18det is a better canidate for a high power build. It's an iron block and was the predecesor to the sr20 det, used in the '89/'90 Silvias.

 

I'm all about 4 banger swaps--better weight distribution...

I say go for it!

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Guest Anonymous

I've read in quite a few threads that the total weight of the sr20det complete with tranny, and basicly everything that's bolted on to it in it's "turn the key and fire her up" form, is about 450lbs... Give or take an ounce or two.

 

I can only assume that the reason that number gets kicked around so much is because it's correct... Though I've never weighed one myself, so this is sort of second hand/common knowledge, if you take my meaning.

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Guest Damn Cracker

It seems like whenever someones asks about an Sr20 swap, everyone says to go for an rb26det. But here's the problem with that: at http://www.nippon-motors.com, a s-13 sr20 w/ tranny is about $1000. the cheapest I've seen an rb26 is about $5000. If you ask me, thats too friggin expensive for a stock motor.

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