How tough is a Q45 R200V

[SleeperZ]

If you aren't drag racing or drifting, you should be good with the suggestions already mentioned as you will never stick that much power down.  Technotoy has a really good solution for stub axle and bearing, and just about any CV and R200 solution will serve you well.  But there is nothing cheap about 500+ hp/torque, so don't think a "budget" solution is going to be reliable at that power level.

[CableSrv]

NewZed I'm not trying to be difficult, however you are trying to claim I have not absorbed any info at all which is incorrect. I'm simply going based off what I've researched on this site and others. By all means if you have more accurate information please post it.

 

SleeperZ I agree that T3's solution is awesome, however I don't want to go their route simply because I don't want to have to replace my rear suspension again when my suspension is already in good condition.

 

Chequered solution is even more expensive and does not facilitate the R230 or R200V differential. And is based on the 930cv design which has me worried. And is still based on the R200 which I don't have and will still need to find one which is rare in LSD form at least in texas it is.

 

I have been trying to follow the normal R230/R200V swap, but due to the site outage some information has been lost. Not to mention the loss of Ross from modern has set this upgrade back a bit. Thankfully Chequered was able to pick up where Ross left off, but the halfshaft/axle part of the CV does not appear to be listed anywhere. Moser does not seem to make these anymore and DSS just quoted me 600 for the pair.

 

T3's 480 price tag for the cv rebuilt has me cautious simply because I think they are relying on the Q45 hubs which I will not be relying on so not sure if their axles are the same as how Ross had designed the upgrade.

There are a few things I'm concerned with using Chequered's R230 companion flange vs the length's posted in the Q45 swap thread. In that thread they were using Ross's old adapter that mated to the 240/280z stub/flange. Does this new companion flange match the same dimensions that Ross's old adapter did? or does this flange mean I have to buy a different length axle vs what was posted?

[seattlejester]

The 930cv design has been used on several high hp cars both in stock application (porsche), our application (Z cars), off road (baja bugs), and a similar version is used in holden's in australia and they tend to run 1000hp plus. I don't think you should throw the whole design under the bus. One of the cheapest offerings of axles for that style is EMPI and they claim their axles are race rated with chromoly cages etc, it is generally understood that they can shatter, you really need to shop around and find what people are actually running. 

 

You still haven't really answered the purpose of the need for the setup. You can find a CLSD relatively easily and stick with the long nose R200, is there a reason you want the viscous?

 

600 for custom high torque/hp axles is fairly cheap. I think they even warranty them. Alternatively dutchman offers axles in 4340, but I'm not sure what they are rated to, they go for about 500 a pair if I remember. You would have to approach them with all the measurements. 

 

If you are really on a budget, don't want to sell or swap out your suspension, just go the standard route, find a CLSD from a Z31 300zx or aftermarket and put it in the car and convert to CV flanges. Should be able to get that done for about 1.5k, still have yet to answer what you plan on using the car for or what your hp goals are.

 

Fact of the matter is 2k is not all that much unless you plan on doing all the leg work.

 

You need the JY infiniti drive shaft (pain in the ass to pull by the way, not much room to get a wrench on it and the bolts tend to round)

Have a new drive shaft built using the flange and your drive shaft

New mustache bar

New dog bone if you are running the finned cover and what not

Might as well go with new uprights while you are at it

New CV joints, and you will need nice aftermarket ones, pulling them from the JY would be silly

Custom axles 

27 spline stub axles

Conversion flanges

 

I mean if you plan on drag racing or drifting then even 280z stub axles are not going to be happy, and even if they were happy, the stock wheel studs would not be. If you refuse to kind of lay out your plan it makes it difficult to suggest anything.

[CableSrv]

I have not found any local sources of Z's in the DFW area so a clsd R200 is extremely rare and I'd have to pay someone out of state to ship me one, if I could even find one online. I would in a heartbeat if I could find one reasonably priced. I have no problem doing leg work or even some light fab work since I have a Tig welder. My original goal for the car is around 500-550hp. With AFR heads and a good texasspeed cam and fast 102 intake, it's pretty easy to get to the 500 range NA at least from what I've seen on ls1tech.com

 

I was originally planning on finding a junkyard R200V and 4x axles + drive shaft and buying T3's front diff mount for the R200V. However what has stumped me was the inner halfshaft section as moser no longer produces the shafts that the original post talks about. That and we apparently no longer use an adapter but instead use a new companion flange.. so Not even sure what size length I need? The mustache bar I can get redrilled for the R200V. And I was planning on using Chequered R230 companion flange with the upgraded 280z stub... (later down the road buying chequered's billet 27 spline stub)

 

I don't plan to drag race, but I do plan to have some spirited driving and some track days. I never really cared for drag racing at all and probably will never be doing clutch dumps either. So far my stock halfshafts/R180 have put up with the LS1 but for how long is a big question. I don't think I want to get caught going to work and having my rear end grenade on me. Right now I'm stock LS1 hp/tq however I do plan to upgrade and figured might as well upgrade my rear end for my end goal of how much HP I want so that I don't have to revisit it.

[CableSrv]

The only reason I was negative to the 930cv is because both wolfcreek, and troy ermish cv's are based on the 930 design and neither of them state they would withstand more than 400hp. Plus there is a post on the forums showing damage to the cromoly ball cage. But you are right, not all 930cv's are the same! But the question is what makes one inherently stronger than the other? and how do you verify? Chequered said theirs is rated to 800hp... but has anyone run theirs to verify how strong they are? As NewZed stated, people throw out chromoly a lot without it carrying too much meaning. A better question is how do we know how well it was heat treated?

[CableSrv]

I think, I have decided to tone down my HP requirements, and go with a subaru STI torsen LSD as these are easy as hell to get and use stock components. DSS makes a 800hp rated cv kit for 1200 which will keep me in budget and be good for around 450hp. I've read a lot of post from the subbie guys that do RWD conversions for drifting on the stock R180 that they have in the STI models or upgraded to the STI diff.

With this I don't have to upgrade my driveshaft, or buy new mounts, but will need to buy DSS's CV kit for 1200 + source a 3.54 STI R180 LSD which can be had from anywhere of 400-650 on ebay. It seems that the torsen lsd R180's are much more stout since they are using 27 spline inner stubs vs the datsun R180 using 25 spline inner stubs.

 

Does anyone make a upgraded stock companion flange? Chequered has 39 spline stub versions but not with a stock mating companion flange, only upgraded to new companion flanges.

[seattlejester]

Whitehead makes a one piece companion flange to adapt to the Porsche CV

 

You were questioning the strength of the R180 and moved onto the R200 maybe even thinking R230, stepping back down to the R180 is probably not a good idea. The STI diff is I think 4 pinion, so it is stronger then the 2 pinion R180 that comes stock, but the subaru guys stick with the R180 because that is as big as subaru ever went. I've heard some interesting rumors that some of the guys even move onto R200 for the drag cars from our cars or early zx's.

 

If one post is enough to convince you that the wolf creek axles aren't worth it, then I would point you towards the two posts in the drive train section of people snapping the input shafts. Granted it isn't the same and probably not the same material, but just putting it out there. 

 

I looked into it since I was in the same boat, I had a CLSD R180 from an STI and decided to sell it as it probably wouldn't last for the activities I wanted to do and my power levels.

 

With all that said, there are people out there running this setup behind some pretty powerful cars.

[CableSrv]

Well newzed made a very fair point. Not all 930cv's are the same. While they share the same design, material strength on the other hand could be different. It seems that wolfcreek and TroyE haven't beefed theirs up.

 

From what I've read about the weaknesses of the R180 and R200 is that R180 are only 2 pinion diffs and also smaller ring gear which means slightly less load. However the R200 having 4 pinion's plus slightly bigger ring gear have seen 800+  hp from people. The downside to the R200 is a decent CV option and the stub axles. As stated most cv kits minus the DSS kit are rated at about 400hp. However DSS stated theirs is rated to 800hp which would mean the weakest link would be the stub axles?

 

The STI R180 is upgraded to 4 pinion + torsen LSD which should be much stouter than a stock R180 and roughly as stout as a R200... however the inner stubs are the weak link.... which is where DSS comes in! They have 1000hp rated stub -> 930cv adapter that just snaps into the STI R180 and complete cv kit. Which would now make the weakest link the 280z outer stubs/flange. Which I can upgrade to the MMS 39 spline kit if they also offer a 280 flange to match the stub they make?

 

If not then I'll stick to 280z 27 spline stub/flange till I can find a upgrade to that?

 

But I figured, that with lack of money and lack of time to have the car down, that it would just be better to lower my HP goals down to around 400 and thus save myself headache on getting all the parts needed and breaking the bank just on the rear end.

[seattlejester]

I mean if money is a problem I would say go for the old school tried and true method.

 

R200, 280zx turbo adapters, 280zx turbo axles, 280z stub axles, new bearings and call it a day. Should be less then 1200ish.

 

I don't think anyone makes a new billet companion flange for the stock 4 bolt pattern, the most stout option would be to go with the white head porsche companion, but that would mean finding out if that changes the length of the axle. They are also quite a bit of money. 

 

Just in case you missed it, if you swap out the stub axles that means new lock nuts, new grease seals, new inner and outer bearings. That's about 150-250$ depending on the quality you go with. 

[CableSrv]

I couldn't find the porsche companion on whitehead's website? I found 300zxt, 280zx and the R230 flanges, but nothing related to the 930cv type.

[seattlejester]

My apologies, Z car depot

 

https://zcardepot.com/driveline/rear-axle/axle-stub-companion-flange-chromoly-930-cv-racing.html?search=axle

[CableSrv]

Oh heck yea! Thanks man! 

[NewZed]

Notice how tall/deep the zcardepot flange is.  Might not work with someone else's axle.  

[seattlejester]

That was my concern, unless they factored in the height of the stock flange and adapter plate a lot of people run. Would be worth asking. 

[CableSrv]

Looking at the adapters that DSS use it looks like it might take up the difference from a stock flange plus the adapter... but not sure? Probably have to measure it vs a stock flange + their adapter. 

[redleg]

I'm doing an upgrade soon to my rear end as having a LS1 mated to my stock R180 using the stock 240z stubs and half-shafts are bordering dangerous destruction soon. I don't plan to do drag strips ever. I'm trying to budget as much as I can to support about 550-600hp/tq. So I've looked at the Q45 and 300zxtt diffs and everyone talks about the R230 being almost impossible to break... but no one talks about the Q45? I know it's much beefier than a longnose R200... but how much HP/TQ can one of them sustain? Would my goals of around 550-600 be to much for it? or should I aim for the R230? or would a stock longnose R200 from a 280z work with that type of HP/TQ?

 

I know I at least have to replace my 240z stub axles to the 280z to get 27 splines... I also know that my stock 240 half-shafts are my first weakest link. So I need to upgrade to CV's as quickly as possible, however the 280zxt cv's won't support my 550+ hp goals and with the guy from wolf creek dying... not sure I can get those cv's anymore.. or if they can even stand up to 550+ hp/tq. Then there is Troy Ermish cv's but what are they rated for?

 

Can I get away with a longnose R200 + Troy Ermish cv's with 550+ hp/tq?

 

If not then I really should plan to get the Q45 or the R230. If I have to get the Q45/R230 can I have my late R180 mustache bar re-drilled? or do I need the R200 bar to get re-drilled? 

 

Right now I'm thinking Q45 if it can support my hp/tq goals with the Arizona Z mustache bar and dog bones.. or just dog bones and re-drill my mustache bar. 

 

I have around 2600 coming to me soon.. so trying to plan around that and still have some money left to do a few other misc things. Q45 Diff shouldn't be to hard to find at a junk yard in DFW as well as 4x axles. the R230 on the other hand... I have not seen many z's at any junk yards...

 

I will be mixing and matching between T3 and AZ parts.

 

280z stub axles (found on ebay) 160

T3 front diff mount  150

T3 axle service  480   (is there an alternative to this? it's quite expensive. I can build my own if I can buy the actual axles themselves... also do these come with endstops?)

AZ mustache bar  239

AZ dog bones   329

chequeredflag R230 companion flange 490   (is there an alternative to this? it's quite expensive)

Q45/R230 (need to find at junkyard)

Q45 cv x4 (need to find at junkyard)

Q45 driveshaft for modifying my ls1 driveshaft (need to find at junkyard)

Q45 diffs are pretty strong. I had one in my 240 for a few years , dyno at 600hp/600 tq. You have get the right Q45 diff for your application, did you know they had to different diffs for the Q45?? 90-95 diffs had 3.50 ish final drive ratio and the bigger input shafts (30 spline) 96 and up had the 3.69 ish final drive ratio and 29 spline input shafts. Axles need to be made. That  setup was the smoothest running diff I had in the car, no clunking/noise. I sold that setup years ago on Hybrid. I wish I would of kept it. I curently have longnose R200 lsd from 300zx turbo installed now, it is holding up to thoses power levels. But a little noisey and clunky. I am waiting to install the q45 diff back in the car after the first of the year.

[Nelsonian]

 I am waiting to install the q45 diff back in the car after the first of the year.

Which Q45 of the two diff's you mentioned ?

[redleg]

I think the diff I pulled was from a 91' Q45. Originally I got one from a 97' but found out the final drive was close to the R200clsd 3.70. I needed the 3.54 diff.

Edited December 10, 2015 by redleg