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A341E Toyota 4spd Auto Chassis Fitment?

Aristo 2jz gte vvti

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#1 jthom5147

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 11:17 AM

Hi All,

 

I'm finishing up my chassis / suspension work in my 260 and am beginning to research a potential powerplant to swap in. Currently the car is a stock l28et setup with a fs5w71B 5 speed. 

 

With time and resources, I'm sure the l28et can be improved to achieve my goal of ~350hp. Car will be street driven.

 

However, being in SoCal has the benefit of local and relatively inexpensive import engines. a 2jzgte from an aristo with 4spd auto trans can be had for <$2k for many sources. Auto transmission is not ideal for me, but I'm considering the possibility as the vvti aristo transmission control computer included a manual mode shift lock-out function to allow up/down driver controlled shifting.

 

Has anyone used, test fit, swapped, or even measured for fitment, etc one of these transmissions into a Z? My 260 will have a narrow 240Z style trans tunnel as well.

 

Per wikipedia it's a A341E. Final drive documented there was ~3.91 which is close to the 4.10 z32 r200 I'm using.

 

I understand there are manual transmission options / commercially available adapter plates / etc for the 2J but I'd like to explore the auto trans option first as replacement transmissions seem to be extremely cheap from importers (everyone wants a R154, V160, etc).

 

Thanks in advance!


ORANGE BULLET - RIP
BLACK 260Z in progress, done right this time.

#2 RUSSJZ-ZED

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 06:08 PM

Top of page.^^^ sticky -installation for Dummies. :rolleyes:

I'm fairly sure the 4 speed auto on a 1J Vvti is the same as the  ones used in 2J. it fitted without any issues. (you will need to remove the original gearbox mounting "ears" from both sides of the tunnel.-see pic's)

passed the "finger clearance" all around test.  

no contact with the tunnel when booted.

(I loved the auto- hated the  Ri54-a giant step backwards IMHO)


Edited by RUSSJZ-ZED, 09 July 2016 - 01:51 PM.

1976 260Z,
1997 1JZ Vvt single turbo
Oh what a feeling...Toyota!:icon54:

pictures and description of build( chronological order) here;


Must be getting old,:(I liked this car more when it was an auto:weird:

#3 jthom5147

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 07:48 PM

Thanks Russ. I've read through that thread before but must have missed it because I was always focused on manual transmissions. I did find a post from you on Viczcar forums that said you were using the 1J auto trans. Wikipedia told me it was the same trans so hopefully it'll fit similarly and not sit too low with a 2J vs 1J.

Thank you for the reply!
ORANGE BULLET - RIP
BLACK 260Z in progress, done right this time.

#4 RUSSJZ-ZED

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 05:11 PM

You probably saw it on ZGarage site (good site, but now deceased) can't remember being on viczcar forum , that's a site mainly populated by people on quests to find things like "a genuine Datsun washer to go behind the bolt that holds the number plate on" Pedant central. Definitely NOT Toyota transplant territory.

The auto worked for me, smooth shifts when on boost, the R154  is a heavy shift, lost boost changing, jerky. thought it was just mine which had had a complete re-build but  I found it the same in a Chaser I took for a run.

I recall that there was a better 5 speed manual that bolted straight up to a 1J /2J, but never followed it up as it was from a US built car that was not available  down here. I'll see if I still have it on an old computer drive. Could be of interest to you people Stateside.

The reason I sold the Z was the R154, didn't have the time  or space to convert it back- plus I'd sold the auto box :wacko:.

I have just bought another Z,  a beautiful 1 owner 280zx 2 seater, showroom condition, to play with. Rare car in Australia, Nissan Australia only marketed the butt ugly 2+2 . I'm undecided as to  what it needs to make it go, a 1J, 3UZ or an LS engine,but whatever I go with will be an Auto.

Automatics have come a long way since the 2 speed Chev Impalas my dad used to own.

Russ


1976 260Z,
1997 1JZ Vvt single turbo
Oh what a feeling...Toyota!:icon54:

pictures and description of build( chronological order) here;


Must be getting old,:(I liked this car more when it was an auto:weird:

#5 jthom5147

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 01:19 PM

Thanks Russ. I really appreciate the feedback.
ORANGE BULLET - RIP
BLACK 260Z in progress, done right this time.

#6 seattlejester

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 03:46 PM

I think the AR-5 is the manual you are thinking of Russ? Found on pontiac solstice and saturn sky apparently fit toyota engines either easily or straight up bolts up to them. There was a thread if you look back a couple pages I think.

 

The manual R154 is huge and fits an early 240z chassis without mods. So the smaller bodied auto would be quite easy to fit by comparison.

 

The R154 can be smoother with the right shifter with the right bushings etc. I have had trouble with mine and the thought of auto did cross my mind a couple times. I had a tiptronic daily and now I have a paddle shifted daily, it is much smoother and nicer in traffic, but there is a definite disconnect. 

 

I will say a 4 -speed doesn't quite feel like enough gears. The first car I drove had a 4 speed and it always felt dim witted trying to find the right gear, struggled to find the right gear for the right situation. 5-speed auto felt a bit better, but with an underpowered engine it feels like more or less it was made just for the gas mileage. The 8 speed I have now almost seems on the high side, but nothing quite beats a quintuple down shift :D, makes the daily slog quite enjoyable.



#7 RUSSJZ-ZED

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 07:16 PM

That's the one, From memory, it is a late version of an  R154 built by Aisin Japan  supplied to GM, with all the bugs taken out. I think that all you need is a  1JZ bell housing .

When I fitted The R154, it only needed a small area of the tunnel pushed out to fit, think I put a jack in there and gave it a couple of cranks, didn't need much.

I had replaced all the shift bushings prior, I just didn't like it, Toyota had a better shifting box with the W58, but it might not have handled the power. 

I wonder what will be next now we are up to 8 speeds? hardly worth bothering changing gears yourself when the ECU has that much choice ;) I've hit that age when I'm happy to let the car figure it out.  


1976 260Z,
1997 1JZ Vvt single turbo
Oh what a feeling...Toyota!:icon54:

pictures and description of build( chronological order) here;


Must be getting old,:(I liked this car more when it was an auto:weird:

#8 jthom5147

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 11:51 AM

From the Wikipedia reading I did do about the auto the gear 1-4 auto gears are roughly equivalent to 2-5 in the R154 (or similar Aisin 5 speed GM badges manuals: AX-15). 1st gear in the auto is 2.5ish and 4th is OD at 0.75 which if I remember right is lower than 5th in the R154. I'll check now and post the results.
ORANGE BULLET - RIP
BLACK 260Z in progress, done right this time.

#9 jthom5147

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 12:08 PM

A341E
Source: https://en.m.wikiped..._A_transmission
2.531, 1.531, 1.000, 0.705, R1.88, FD 3.916
Note: Wikipedia also says this was behind the Volvo 2.9L I6 which would be an interesting swap also. TT model offered factory in the USA from Volvo. Parts / maintenance might be an issue though.

R154
Source: https://en.m.wikiped...ansmission#R154
3.251, 1.995, 1.310, 1.00, 0.753 (R and FD not listed)

I can see what you mean that the auto ratios for 1 and 2 fall in between 1-2 and 2-3 on the R154 which might take getting used to long term / require gear hunting. But the lower OD gear on the auto would be nice for cruising when looking at the FD of ~3.92. The shortnose R200 I'm is ~4.11 so that might help acceleration and offset the OD vs the manual option.

I'm really tempted by this. Especially at the price point. Although I'd want to find a way to integrate the driver with shifting again. The auto has a "manual" mode that's electronically controlled. It probably works similar to my 2013 tundra with electronic auto, but that's speculation. Paddle shifters or custom wiring of gear selector might be looked into.
ORANGE BULLET - RIP
BLACK 260Z in progress, done right this time.

#10 RUSSJZ-ZED

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 03:12 PM

I was running a 3.3/1 and it was a rocket off the line with the auto,(and you can either use the sports shift or just manually shift it) install the auto with whatever diff you have now and test it before you start making modifications, you could be surprised.

If you don't  like it, it is no drama swapping a diff later.

Make sure you immobilise "snow mode" switch


1976 260Z,
1997 1JZ Vvt single turbo
Oh what a feeling...Toyota!:icon54:

pictures and description of build( chronological order) here;


Must be getting old,:(I liked this car more when it was an auto:weird:

#11 seattlejester

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 04:01 PM

There is a company that makes transmission controllers. Fairly affordable from what I recall. Has full manual control and full lockout control so the gear shifts are faster etc. They eve had a digital display with paddle shifting option. I want to say the toyota supra was one of the options. I know the FD rx7 was an option and may be easier to search for using that.

 

Or you could go full custom with a megashift like system. 

 

Honestly I'm kind of over the manual everything phase. I wouldn't mind some assist in my steering, I wouldn't mind if I could just cruise and have a computer shift for me while I munched on a snack or something. If you have the budget for it the auto shouldn't be what is stopping you. Just keep in mind it usually only isn't the swap cost. There are other costs involved make sure to factor those in!



#12 jthom5147

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 04:23 PM

This isn't my first swap so I'm sure there will be unseen costs / budget items. I'm just looking at the major points / big purchases. E.g.

 

Manual swap needs:

R154 + bell housing + clutch/flywheel assy ~est 2k for a questionable r154, or a collins adapter with custom flywheel and VG transmission for ~1500ish. plus clutch integration and lines, etc.

ECU to bypass/simplify the aristo auto tranny harness. Was looking at MS PNP for 2JZ. Kit is ~1500. 

 

Auto swap needs wiring figured out. Works Bell sells a paddle shifter kit for ~500 for the V161 TT/VVTI aristo which is what i'd be getting. P, N, D, etc gear control I'm pretty sure is a simple multi-circuit switch.... Radio Shack can help with that assuming they're still in business when i get around to it. lol.

Factory TT2JZ will get me really close to power goals. I'll have to figure out if the stock ECU can handle adjusting boost levels to get the extra power i want. hopefully the ceramic turbos can take it too. but 350ish HP isnt excessive for that motor.

 

Obviously both swaps need driveshafts / crossmembers, etc. I'll weld those up myself and outsource the prop shaft. And LOTS of time. 


ORANGE BULLET - RIP
BLACK 260Z in progress, done right this time.

#13 panic

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 07:59 AM

It's not the same, read my article here: http://www.victoryli...oyota/A340E.htm



#14 RUSSJZ-ZED

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 07:54 PM

^^^ brilliant article!  Thank you.


1976 260Z,
1997 1JZ Vvt single turbo
Oh what a feeling...Toyota!:icon54:

pictures and description of build( chronological order) here;


Must be getting old,:(I liked this car more when it was an auto:weird:

#15 RUSSJZ-ZED

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 02:51 PM

Hi Panic, You obviously know  the A341 backwards, I wonder if you can help me out with an A650E?

I have one installed in a Porsche 928 with a 3UZ transplant, ( transaxle replaced with conventional Borge Warner LSD, the A650E where it's supposed to be, behind the engine)

I have zero clearance for the dip stick, and due to this transmission holding so much fluid in the converter, it is guess work trying to work out if the fluid level is correct.  (at the moment, only way is drop gearbox, drain converter,  refill   to factory spec. :(-)  

I have room at the side in the tunnel  so I thought maybe drill and tap a fluid  fill point on the side of the case at level height.

Problem, Don't know at what height to drill through. Any advise?

pic of A650E attached

  Thanks Russ

Attached Files


1976 260Z,
1997 1JZ Vvt single turbo
Oh what a feeling...Toyota!:icon54:

pictures and description of build( chronological order) here;


Must be getting old,:(I liked this car more when it was an auto:weird:




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