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Why would you ship that from America? A 2+2 story


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#1 Villeman

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 06:33 AM

Sooo,

 

I am finally starting my build thread. over 2 years ago I read an article about the Z, and immediately thought I should go for one. I have a strong background with my fathers cars (Mostly Citroen DS) and have driven one of those for 2 years at a time. I guess what really got me was the statement that it´s a GT car for larger people (i´m quite tall) and thats exactly my type of car. This may also explain why I got a 2+2...I actually honestly and seriously like it more that the coupe + we have an autobahn and wheelbase is king ;)

 

After half a year I found a lovingly butchered 260z 2+2 euro spec with a 2.8l engine and LPG conversion -_- virtually everything was broken but hey, only 5.5k complete with bondo, rust, ripped interior, weird parts etc. so I had to leave the high class dutch escort (looking) woman selling it and moved on (thats why I just have to buy a hardwood club, when you find that in a trunk you KNOW the owner has class).

 

some more digging brought me here :) fast forward through 2 blown deals where cars were sold elsewhere even though I had already started with shipping, we come to the part with the hero of the story :P Daniel, here from hybridz volunteered to check out a car from me and it was instant love. A 76´ 280z 2+2 with one owner, stored since 83, 47k original miles and completely unmolested, so exactly what I was looking for and even for a good price. i will skip through some stupid stuff with my german bank and in the end Daniel took the car and kept it for me till paperwork was pushed hard enough to produce a title. Once again, I am still puzzled about the amount of favors he did for me!

 

Enough sentimentality, THE CAR:

1976 280z 2+2 (N42/N42) from Richmond, CA

still with 83 plates

Edit: Remembered it wrong, is 55k (47k miles) (we took the engine apart)

missing title

but already over 1k invested by the owners son before selling (see later why)

 

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No licenseplate
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and here leaving america after nearly 6 month of waiting, oh what a day
 
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Edited by Villeman, 26 August 2016 - 12:34 AM.


#2 Villeman

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 06:33 AM

The Plan: fix it, just that simple. It´s original paint, NO rust ,I mean look at that

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so just go for a good car to enjoy. It will be a GT car and I like it the way it looks now, just some tweaks as money allows for them. First order of the day, check if its running. Well, Now I know why it had a bad fuel pump.... somebody wanted to hide the engines condition, a lot of work had been put into the engine by the previous owner to revive it after 32 years and this is how it looks :

 

20160726 110144
 
Cylinder 6 is dead so we took out the head as first thing on the new car :ph34r: We found out it´s actually easier to take the head with manifolds still on and remove them later, and with trusty IKEA equipments its no big deal
 
20160726 160916

 

and tadaaa, cause of the problem is

Zeichnung 11
 
and this explains why they parked it in 83. They must have run it for quite some time before parking, judging from the oil left in the engine and the carbon everywhere. The new engine oil those folks put in in 2015 didn´t even mix with the old stuff. Thank you Dan for not trying to start it, wise man!
 
IMG 0684
 
the next step is logically to pull the engine with the old mobile engine jack and send both parts to an engine builder, Funnily the head has some ultra shiny valve seats and some rusted ones (all good though) another indicator that the mileage may be true.
20160726 160755

 

IMG 0685
 
For now, Nissan liner in Cylinder 6, the others need nothing (we will put in new rings to be safe). Engine bearings are like new, crosshatch like new, no visible wear on starter or any other sprocket :)
 
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Edited by Villeman, 01 August 2016 - 06:50 AM.


#3 seattlejester

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:18 AM

Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the family!



#4 Villeman

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 05:09 AM

Well and then everything went terribly wrong ;)

 

My block got x-rayed and there is excessive water damage on 3 more cylinders.... strangely everything else is in like-new condition so i really don´t want to move to another block. I really have to find a cheap source for liners.... at least if i ever go 3.2l this block will be gold ;) with liners in all 6 pots so I am not really sad, only afraid of the bill^^ 

anybody has an opinion? I know it may seem weird but sourcing another engine here and fixing that one will almost certainly be more expensive :(


Edited by Villeman, 10 August 2016 - 05:18 AM.


#5 seattlejester

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 10:22 AM

Hmm I think sleeving would be really expensive. I think if you search the site it comes up here, but I recall something about welding the sleeves together afterwards and some other things you need to do. I think a lot of work and cost for me personally.

 

Did the x-ray reveal the depth of the damage? Could you bore it out to 3L spec and use KA24DE pistons and a cometic head gasket?



#6 Villeman

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 12:52 PM

I tought about that, I want to keep it fuel injected and for now Megasquirt would go too far. I don´t think I could run that setup on the Stock FI, could I? I would really want to get it running in general and then start tinkering, but if I bore now I might as well fiddle with it. What would be compatible with stock FI ?(let me guess, stock setup...)


Edited by Villeman, 10 August 2016 - 12:59 PM.


#7 seattlejester

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 01:49 PM

The stock EFI system really isn't the smartest or the most adjustable thing out there.

 

Boring out to 3L means 0.2 more L of displacement, actually a bit less if memory serves, I think it is more the 2800cc stock and it will be less then 3000cc bored to "3L" 

 

Off the top of my head I want to say there is enough room in the stock fueling to account for the extra displacement without running too lean, but I can't give a positive answer. There are some tricks to make it run safer, more fuel pressure, or even upsizing the injectors (turbo injectors for instance), but you won't be benefitting from the extra displacement with the stock EFI system. 

 

Edit:

Some things I am remembering are wrong.

 

Ka24de pistons are 89mm, but have a lower pin height, you would need to run L24 rods to make up for the reduced pin height, but it is a viable option.

 

2.8L stock is actually 2753cc, the resulting 2.9L (Not 3L, 3L is actually I think a stroker crank with a slight overbore) motor using L24 rods and KA24de pistons would be 2949cc, so still less then 200cc difference, but it is there.


Edited by seattlejester, 10 August 2016 - 02:03 PM.


#8 seattlejester

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 02:05 PM

I guess it still depends on how deep the water damage is, if it is a one or two mm in the bore then a simple overbore with upsized pistons would still play fairly nice with the stock fuel system. 



#9 Ereschkigal

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 12:03 AM

Nice to see another Z in Germany.


Edited by Ereschkigal, 11 August 2016 - 12:03 AM.


#10 Villeman

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:12 AM

actually sleeving 4 out of 6 cylinders would break even nearly. Sleeves are around 350$ and pistons are around 300 for aftermarket ones.Putting in liners is more expensive of course, but it would be a short route for future me to line all 6 and then have all the options in the world for a build.....



#11 Villeman

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 11:25 PM

Time for an update, I could free a day to continue working on the 2+2. I have to say the basis is perfect, just surface rust and absolutely no through rusting (well, maybe one tiny spot, will see when we start removing the paint)

 

small but cool, Mobil sticker from ´81 with 47.--- something miles in the door

20160821 201024

 

 

its really funny, I have a 76 coin with the key, and coins from 7x till 83 can be found in the car, then it stops.... so far 1 dollar in change, YES!

 

As for now, 0.75 over pistons arrived and the engine builder already finishes the head. Didn´t even need to regrind the valves, pressure test came out fine.

20160822 222327
 
20160821 201033
 
the sound deadening starts to bubble but there is no rust undernead. Opened some of them, clear painted metal underneath. Let it sit or rip it out???
20160822 220635
 
the frame is looking good, not even a stuck bolt. I prefer this a lot over a fully rusted Citroen Ds, 5 seconds vs 5 minutes per bolt :)
20160822 220624
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I started disassembing a spare 4 speed (courtesy of Dangerdan ^^ ) to mill the bellhousing for a 240sx gearbox, need to keep german autobahn in mind. Small question, if we hear a pressure relief when disassembling the AC, does it mean it still had some R12 left?(hissed for 1-2 seconds). Engine was turning before.


Edited by Villeman, 23 August 2016 - 11:33 PM.


#12 88dangerdan

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:13 AM

It'll be up and running in no time. I'm glad I was able to help out in a small way.

Daniel

#13 seattlejester

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:42 AM

^Daniel is the man, definitely helped me out with struts in the past too.

 

If it hissed I would suspect it had pressure in the system, if it was momentary then most likely very residual, if it was running in the last decade I imagine they would have changed out the R12, but with cars that sit, who knows. 

 

Sound deadening comes off pretty easy with dry ice and a air chisel, if you want to do a full floor inspection and maybe put down some modern sound, or thinner or effective sound/heat insulation then pulling it off would be a good idea. Otherwise it is a bit of a hassle. 

 

I took all of it out and it was really buzzy, hot, and loud. I finally put some sound deadening in it is a bit quieter, much much cooler, and only a few buzzes/rattles.



#14 Villeman

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:22 PM

@Daniel ......helped a SMALL way??????? :P   this is totally not what I remember 



#15 Villeman

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 09:37 AM

Update Time... whats better than an old engine.... a new engine. They had to sleeve one cylinder and bore all the others+xraying eveything .....behold!

 

IMG 0717
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with new pistons everything should be fine. Also it seems that I scored a Nissan OEM front spoiler , will see the next days. By the way, does it make sense to add a 240z splash guard?

 

A friend helped me male this, center caps for the Coyote made American Racing turbines. First print is on my desk, next ones will have a Datsun Logo on top. If anybody wants the CAD files feel free to ask.

 

Nabendeckel Coyote  American Racing
20160811 130219
[thats not the print! ]

 


Edited by Villeman, 08 September 2016 - 06:09 AM.


#16 Villeman

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 10:29 AM

well, why not make them pretty...Material will be ABS plastic smoothed with acetone vapor. Decided to ditch the vortex for this ....

Nabendeckel TM003 100916 003
Nabendeckel TM003 100916 002
Nabendeckel TM003 100916 001


#17 supernova_6969

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 05:04 AM

Hey.

Those caps you are making...  I'm guessing the "coyote made american turbine" are your wheels?

 

if do, are you planning on painting or chroming  the caps you are making to match?

 

oh, btw, you mentionned autoban (you lucky bastard).  have you read the posts on he aerodynamic testing of the various body kits for our cars?    most kits, and definately the stock form, have an issue with eh front end becoming very light at high speed.  in most uncivilised places whre tehre are speed limits, that's not so much of an issue, but it might become one for you.  you should check it out, only to make certain you're aware.  

 

if  you think it's an issue, you can then plan accordingly..

 

also, that splash guard might play a role in the front end lift, i'm not certain, I forget is they included a with/without.  I know on some other cars, it does do something....  there is this series on some website http://www.autospeed....html?&A=113176 where the guy tests all sorts of things like that, and its really worth it.  actually most of his articles are really interesting..  


Edited by supernova_6969, 11 September 2016 - 05:38 AM.


#18 Villeman

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 07:05 AM

Hey,

 

the caps are for my wheels, yes. A seller told me that Coyote (a japanese company?????) made them for american racing (I showed him the centercap with the vortex on it). It´s like the new american racing Vector center caps, only that this size is sold out looooooong ago (he wanted 240$ for 4 used caps). So a friend made a 3D model to print and we thought "why not add a Datsun logo". Will post pictures of the printed one. They were textued black OEM but I guess I will also highlight the Datsun white. Chroming would need a metallisation, and even though I could do it in our cleanroom they would shoot me.....

 

The Euro models came with a OEM Airdam (rubber) wich i recently stol...ähm..purchased for a reasonable price ;) They also had the splash guard (late style sadly) and I don´t recall my car having one, thus the question. I am still afraid of the louvers ripping off at over 100mph ;)


Edited by Villeman, 11 September 2016 - 07:08 AM.


#19 Ereschkigal

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 11:46 AM

What is the Euro oem airdam?



#20 Villeman

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 12:32 PM

hey, its the very thin spoiler you can buy as classic from msa and others but the old ones are made of a rubber like substance Iirc. Came standard on european models (autobahn, dodgy steering at high speeds without)


Edited by Villeman, 11 September 2016 - 12:33 PM.





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