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KevvinG's 3.0L Stroker Build


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#1 KevvinG

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 05:06 PM

Hey guys!

 

After much dreaming and planning I've finally bit the bullet and purchased a Rebello 3.0L Stroker kit.  It's second hand off another user here on HybridZ, but it comes with the Rebello offset ground crank, eagle connecting rods and JE forged pistons.  The specs on those are as follows: (I need to double check with rebello but to the best of my knowledge it's all correct)

Crank stroke: 81mm

Rod length: 137.7mm

Piston size: 89mm, pin height: 28.9 (this I'm uncertain about)

 

The kit is currently in shipping, so I'll update with photos once it arrives!  I'll keep this thread posted as the build goes on as I figure documenting this process couldn't be a bad idea, it'll also be a great hub for all the questions I'm sure to have.

 

At the moment I'm keeping my eyes open for an F54 block or whole engine to be a donor for the process.

 

I'm also debating which one of my cylinder heads I should be using for the build, I've got two options and two more entire heads for spares, also whichever head I pick would get Schneider valve springs and retainers as well as my comp cams camshaft with the following specs: 

Dur @ .020 292 int/exh

Dur @ .050 246 int/exh

Lift .480 int/exh

 

 

I've got a P90 that's unshaven, it's been cleaned and lightly ported and in overall great shape.  Would just need rockers and a cam, though it would seem that my compression figures would be quite low on this setup due to the low pin height of the pistons

 

The other head is an E31 that's down to the bare casting, it would need to be gone over by a pro.  5 of the cylinders have been ported pretty heavily and the 6th one needs to be done to match.  It needs bigger valves and hardened seats, as well as the cam towers properly installed.  More of a project but according the the Z engine calculator it would seem that with a 2mm HKS gasket I'd be looking at 9.29:1 compression which would be perfect for pump gas.

 

Kevin


'77 280Z w/ 3x 40DCOE18


#2 30 ounce

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 05:49 PM

I used an F54 when I built this originally...I would use an N42 if I were to do it again.  They have more meat around the cylinder...F54 works, just have it sonic tested first. I would go with the P90 head and get it shaved to get the compression up to at least 10:1.  All the power is in the head...find someone who knows what they are doing with these heads and you will have one heck of a fun motor.


Edited by 30 ounce, 30 November 2016 - 05:54 PM.


#3 JacktheRiffer

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:02 PM

You could shave the p90 and add more cam. That would be fun and should be good to go on pump gas.

#4 KevvinG

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:58 PM

I used an F54 when I built this originally...I would use an N42 if I were to do it again.  They have more meat around the cylinder...F54 works, just have it sonic tested first. I would go with the P90 head and get it shaved to get the compression up to at least 10:1.  All the power is in the head...find someone who knows what they are doing with these heads and you will have one heck of a fun motor.

 

Really?  From what I've read I heard that the F54 is actually the one with webbing between the cylinders to increase it's ability to withstand boost pressures.  I'll do some more research.

 

I'm thinking of using the P90, it seems to be the agreed upon winner.  My only issue is that right now it has the perfect CR for boosted applications, though I don't see myself switching away from my webers in the foreseeable future I am kind of hesitant to shave it down.  Do you know what kind of differences I'd see between the E31 and P90?

You could shave the p90 and add more cam. That would be fun and should be good to go on pump gas.

Add even more cam?  I'm new to engine building and specs but I thought that my cam specs were pretty big!  This is going to be mostly a road car, with the occasional track/autoX day so I'm a little hesitant to throw a cam thats too big and will make it less fun around town.


'77 280Z w/ 3x 40DCOE18


#5 30 ounce

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:19 PM

Here's a little info: http://forums.hybrid...formance-build/

There was a picture on the inter webs of a cutaway of both the N42 and F54 blocks. The N42 is siamesed on all cylinders and the F54 is only on 1-2,3-4,5-6. And they have cooling passages in them too.

#6 Rob L

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 07:58 AM

I will be following this ... im doing the same stroker build ... F54 P90...rebello 3.0 l kit is what is left to order...keep this thread updated!



#7 KevvinG

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:35 AM

Okay so after doing some more googling and seeing lots of conflicting answers I think I've finally got some usable info!

 

The N42 block has full siamesed cylinders and thicker cylinder walls, this goes against logic as the N42 was never required to hold up any boost.  The reason for the thinner cylinder walls and technically non-siamesed cylinders in the F54 block is to increase the size of the cooling passages between cylinders.  Nissan added webbing between the cylinders for the F54 to maintain rigidity but that webbing is less effective when you bore out the cylinder walls.

 

Ultimately as far as I've read both block are fine for a 3mm overbore so long as you sonic test them to be sure, the N42 will just have more comfort room.  I'll keep my eyes open for either block in this case!

 

Rob, I'll keep the thread updated as work progresses and I'll be sure to take some pics once I make some headway!


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#8 fraz

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:12 PM


The N42 block has full siamesed cylinders and thicker cylinder walls, this goes against logic as the N42 was never required to hold up any boost. The reason for the thinner cylinder walls and technically non-siamesed cylinders in the F54 block is to increase the size of the cooling passages between cylinders. Nissan added webbing between the cylinders for the F54 to maintain rigidity but that webbing is less effective when you bore out the cylinder walls.


I would imagine that the n42 block never had any rigidity issues so Nissan made the newer f54 block a bit thinner to save on material and therefore manufacturing costs.

#9 madkaw

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:33 PM

N42 has a higher nickel content too.
Might consider having Rebello prep your block also unless you have a torque plate and a competent machine shop to clearance and machine it
Steve,
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#10 JacktheRiffer

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:44 PM

N42 is the block Im going to,use for,my stroker after reading all the posts on here. Supposedly much stronger and I have 2 laying around so if the shop messes up I get a second try.

As for adding more cam: more cam,means you can, in theory, get away with more compression on pump gas. And keep,in mind the L series is not like a v8. You have to rev it out to make power.

#11 KevvinG

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 08:28 PM

I would imagine that the n42 block never had any rigidity issues so Nissan made the newer f54 block a bit thinner to save on material and therefore manufacturing costs.

 

Definitely makes sense from a business standpoint, they overengineered the L28E so why not save some money where they can on the L28ET if they're reworking the block anyways!

 

N42 has a higher nickel content too.
Might consider having Rebello prep your block also unless you have a torque plate and a competent machine shop to clearance and machine it

 

Yup I've been hearing that the N42 from '75 and '76 has the highest nickel content, my Z is a '77 and I'd prefer to keep my L28 in it as I have a hunch this project won't be done by springtime and I wanna drive the damn thing!

I'd love to get Rebello to do it but ultimately it comes down to cost, I'm in the Toronto area and shipping a block even if it's one way from Cali-Toronto is expensive plus import fees are never fun to deal with.  There's a Z specialist 45 mins from me that's very well regarded (Whitehead Performance) and there are a few other great machine shops in the area that I'd trust to do the job right.

 

N42 is the block Im going to,use for,my stroker after reading all the posts on here. Supposedly much stronger and I have 2 laying around so if the shop messes up I get a second try.

As for adding more cam: more cam,means you can, in theory, get away with more compression on pump gas. And keep,in mind the L series is not like a v8. You have to rev it out to make power.

 

Perfect! Always great to have a backup block in case things go sideways, that's why I'm really okay with either an F54 or N42, of course I'd prefer the N42 knowing what I know now but it's good to have options.  As for the cam, I know what you mean, the overlap on a bigger cam bleeds off a bit of compression and allows for higher compression setups with pump gas.  What I meant was; isn't the cam I listed pretty big already?  I don't have alot of experience building engines but comparing them to MSA cam specs it slips in a little below their Stage IV which is already touted as a "track use" cam.


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#12 HuD 91gt

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:32 PM

Get Whitehead to do the entire build for you.  I had them do my head, with my parts.   There was complications and I wasn't entirely happy with the service but in the end they did stand up and made it right.  You'll avoid headache if there is ever issues, and it wasn't completely their work.   They know what they are doing, let them do it.

Make sure you get a written quote.  Rebello (Including exchange) was definitely comparable in price though.  Having the shop local is definitely a plus though.


Edited by HuD 91gt, 02 December 2016 - 07:54 AM.

1971 240z - Balanced .040 over L28 w/ Ported P90 head - Colt c542.s cam, SU w/SM needles, MSII (ignition)- LS2 Coils Wasted Spark, MSA Premium Exhaust - 6-3-2 Header

 


#13 JacktheRiffer

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:45 PM

I would look at isky cams. The cam you have listed is pretty big but there is a bit more room if you wanted. Depends on how you like to drive really. Do you wanna rev it out or keep it down low?

#14 Rob L

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 05:16 AM

Get your head on a flow bench when it's done ...THEN match your cam to your heads flow numbers ...that's the cam that will work best for your application...choosing a cam before knowing what your head flows is cart before horse no ?

#15 KevvinG

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 09:11 AM

Good news!!  The FedEx man brought me the good stuff.  Unfortunately today is too busy for me to dig in so I'll have to open it all up tomorrow.

 

Attached File  engineparts1.jpg   68.36KB   2 downloads

 

Attached File  engineparts2.jpg   109.41KB   3 downloads


Edited by KevvinG, 02 December 2016 - 09:13 AM.

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#16 Dusty

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:24 PM

Hope you have good luck with it.  I got the same kit from Rebello and ordered a block as well for an extra 1K.  Everything was rusting when it arrived.  The rods were not fitted to the pins.  The crank was not machined correctly and would not turn in the block due to near zero thrust bearing clearance.  The crank was not radiused around the oiling holes and not repaired around the rear main seal.   The piston is nice and the skinny rings, its JE.  Rod are eagle and pretty nice. I found the piston to be well below the deck, check this....  I ordered new rod bearings cause the ones sent by rebello were mashed together in the packaging and wrecked.  I won't go into the block.....



#17 Rob L

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:04 PM

^^^ Now your making me think twice ...I thought rebello was a reputable shop ... did you contact them ?

#18 Dusty

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:26 PM

I think they are.  He just really screwed up my order.  I think my expectations were different although was plenty happy to pay for them.  I wanted a ready to assemble kit of parts not to save money, I just like putting engines together.  What I got was parts in need of machine work which seemed ridiculous ordering from an engine machine shop.  The block was a mess even he admitted.  However the custom pistons are pretty nice not super fancy but are definitely modern design with the skinny rings, nice quality JE stuff.  The package is way way way lighter than the factory stuff you could assemble so thats good. I feel that when you grind a crank that all the oil ports should have a radius applied if that radius was ground past in the process.  I think you should expect the center bearing to have enough clearance to allow the crank to rotate when you sell it, yes I can fix this, but should I have to?  I also think if you are an engine/machine shop selling a stroker kit the customer should be able to install the wrist pins into the rod without having to go to another machine shop.  Infact if its a kit it should all go together, in the block you bought.  It is after all engine building, which is all about overcoming challenges in this case I was prepared to expect things like excessive compression or piston to valve problems, but so much trouble so early has the stuff sitting in a corner at the moment.


Edited by Dusty, 02 December 2016 - 03:28 PM.


#19 KevvinG

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 10:09 PM

Dusty, I'm sorry to hear about your experience!  That must have been a series of unfortunate events surrounding your order, I've heard mostly great things about Rebello.  Hopefully everything ends up working out alright!


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#20 KevvinG

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 10:17 PM

Get Whitehead to do the entire build for you.  I had them do my head, with my parts.   There was complications and I wasn't entirely happy with the service but in the end they did stand up and made it right.  You'll avoid headache if there is ever issues, and it wasn't completely their work.   They know what they are doing, let them do it.

Make sure you get a written quote.  Rebello (Including exchange) was definitely comparable in price though.  Having the shop local is definitely a plus though.

 

I'd love to have Whitehead do the entire build for me but I'm also taking this as an opportunity to dive into engine building.  It may go horribly wrong and backfire on me but part of why I'm doing this instead of say swapping in an RB engine is to be able to enjoy an engine I've built myself!  That and I'm trying to keep costs as low as possible

I would look at isky cams. The cam you have listed is pretty big but there is a bit more room if you wanted. Depends on how you like to drive really. Do you wanna rev it out or keep it down low?

 

Isky cams look fantastic, I've been considering one for quite some time.  I definitely want to rev it out but having some good power down low is still important to me as I'll be driving it around town alot.  Ideally I'd like it to pull hardest from 3500-6500.  I'll be setting my redline to 7000.

Get your head on a flow bench when it's done ...THEN match your cam to your heads flow numbers ...that's the cam that will work best for your application...choosing a cam before knowing what your head flows is cart before horse no ?

 

Ultimately this will be the deciding factor.  If I can use the cam I already have then I will, but if there's a more suitable cam that will give me a big gain with my head then I'll take the plunge


'77 280Z w/ 3x 40DCOE18





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