Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Universal Anti Roll Sway Hollow Bar Kit


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 260DET

260DET

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2845 posts
  • LocationWarwick, Q, Australia

Posted 15 December 2016 - 10:43 PM

The bar itself is straight and usually splined each end to accept the bar ends which are essentially levers that connect via links to a unsprung part of the suspension somewhere. There are versions made for using on the rear suspension of a drag car which look like they could be adapted to work on a Z car, at the front of course. But finding info on the wall thickness of the hollow bars used is like a Wikileaks exercise only harder.

 

Maybe someone here is using something similar on their race car that suits, if so tell us about it. I'm plain researched out.

 

EDIT Maybe a mod would like to move this to suspension.


Edited by 260DET, 15 December 2016 - 10:46 PM.


#2 74_5.0L_Z

74_5.0L_Z

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 935 posts
  • LocationRockledge, FL

Posted 16 December 2016 - 03:10 AM

I've been looking into this a bit as well.

http://1speedway.com...6&product_id=90

#3 socorob

socorob

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1016 posts
  • LocationNorthshore, Louisiana

Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:45 AM

TTT makes a hollow rear one for the Z.


1978 280Z - LS1, Improved racing oil pan baffle, JTR Headers, Johns Cars Mounts, JTR intake - T56, MGW shifter-GM cruise control - Infiniti Q45 R200 diff - Techno Toy Tuning suspension with Konis front and rear - Vintage Air Compac - Z32 rear brakes - Q45 rear hubs - Lizard Skin sound and heat - 2003-2004 G35 wheels - 86 Z31 front hubs, Modern Motorsports rotor adapter, 86 Z31 front rotors, Toyota calipers - 2002 Miata seats ...in progress so far. http://forums.hybrid...to-ls1-t56-ttt/


#4 clarkspeed

clarkspeed

    Member

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 433 posts
  • LocationDowntown Orlando Florida

Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:50 AM

I have seen a number of these on S30's and recently purchased one for the car I am building. Selection involves knowing the spring rate you desire. You can calculate the thickness you need based on bar length and arm length. Rule of thumb is use steel arms for heavier rates. You will need bent arms or bend them yourself. I have seen them mounted using flange mount bearings through the engine bay, fenderwells, and frame rails. I chose an aluminum bearing block I think I got from Pegasus.

S30 Motorsports: Restoring, building, and racing vintage cars.  Current projects: 71 240Z CP Bob Leitzinger tribute vintage race car, 70 240Z partial tube frame IMSA GTU vintage race car, 60 Mini Cooper vintage race car.  "If you are under control you're going too slow" - Parnelli Jones


#5 jacky4566

jacky4566

    Always Here

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • LocationCalgary, AB

Posted 16 December 2016 - 02:00 PM

Has anyone measured the stock front bar? If one was going to use a universal bar what strength would you want?

 

This subaru post has some really good math on the subject:

http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=1279944



#6 260DET

260DET

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2845 posts
  • LocationWarwick, Q, Australia

Posted 16 December 2016 - 11:22 PM

I've been looking into this a bit as well.

http://1speedway.com...6&product_id=90

 

Great find, thanks. My race 280ZX has a OE big hollow bar on the front off some JDM Nissan sedan, so much lighter. It works well, will measure the OD and wall thickness and post them up.



#7 260DET

260DET

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2845 posts
  • LocationWarwick, Q, Australia

Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:41 AM

Well :) 1speedway have a 32mm OD hollow bar, the same OD as my JDM one. Mine has a 3.5mm wall thickness, 1speedway have a 3.2mm wall option. This is a great guide for what may suit mine, for anyone else my JDM bar is pretty stiff, no rear bar used, so if you want a stiffy the 1.25" hollow .125" wall 1speedway option may suit you.

 

Mine is soft mounted which is not good, one of the reasons for going this way is to have hard mounts. 



#8 74_5.0L_Z

74_5.0L_Z

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 935 posts
  • LocationRockledge, FL

Posted 17 December 2016 - 04:43 AM

I would like to see pictures of the tubular ARB set-ups installed on the Z and ZX cars. I would also like to see the details (tube OD, ID, length, arm length, bend angle, mounting).

#9 260DET

260DET

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2845 posts
  • LocationWarwick, Q, Australia

Posted 18 December 2016 - 01:04 AM

My application is for a project Z car, anticipate making up and welding mounting plates to the chassis rails. Certainly for a S30 this would be necessary. Other than that my preference would be to use long links connecting to the struts which, if possible, will dictate the length of bar required.



#10 tube80z

tube80z

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderators
  • 1144 posts
  • LocationRickreall, Oregon

Posted 18 December 2016 - 06:49 PM

My application is for a project Z car, anticipate making up and welding mounting plates to the chassis rails. Certainly for a S30 this would be necessary. Other than that my preference would be to use long links connecting to the struts which, if possible, will dictate the length of bar required.

 

You really don't want to connect to the struts.  I know a lot of production cars do this now but for a racing car you're better off connecting to the control arm.  The reason being you increase the side load on your struts and that increases the friction that needs to be overcome before everything can move and the shock can do its thing.  


Tube80z
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing
So is a lot"

#11 tube80z

tube80z

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderators
  • 1144 posts
  • LocationRickreall, Oregon

Posted 18 December 2016 - 07:02 PM

I've been looking into this a bit as well.

http://1speedway.com...6&product_id=90

 

Look at used nascar swaybar on ebay or go to Roush's outlet store and you can find anything you want.  A friend used one on the front of his 260 EP car.  He used the spherical mounts you can get for them and used the straight arms and then bent them to be close to the stock pickup location on the lower control arm.


Tube80z
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing
So is a lot"

#12 JMortensen

JMortensen

    Retired Admin.

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12432 posts
  • LocationSeattle area, WA

Posted 18 December 2016 - 07:22 PM

You really don't want to connect to the struts.  I know a lot of production cars do this now but for a racing car you're better off connecting to the control arm.  The reason being you increase the side load on your struts and that increases the friction that needs to be overcome before everything can move and the shock can do its thing.  

Interesting. I was actually considering this and had thought of attaching to the strut. Glad I didn't do it now.


Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com


#13 260DET

260DET

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2845 posts
  • LocationWarwick, Q, Australia

Posted 19 December 2016 - 02:20 PM

You really don't want to connect to the struts.  I know a lot of production cars do this now but for a racing car you're better off connecting to the control arm.  The reason being you increase the side load on your struts and that increases the friction that needs to be overcome before everything can move and the shock can do its thing.  

 Interesting point, hadn't thought of that. But if the links are aligned parallel to the struts then such side loading would be negligible?  The reason why I like the idea of strut connected links is that they can be long and so allow acceptable angularity when their location on the bar is adjusted in or out.



#14 TUME

TUME

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 77 posts
  • LocationFinland

Posted 19 December 2016 - 08:53 PM

I´m planning to use roll bar like this; it has hollow tube and adjustable knifes.

Mine is D.I.Y-kit, so it has to cut to proper lenhgt and weld those sleeves into it. Those blades are rotating, so you can adjust their stiffness.

IMG_0029.jpg

Attached Files


RS13 & HLS30 + A33  Arttu @ dnsf.org


#15 tube80z

tube80z

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderators
  • 1144 posts
  • LocationRickreall, Oregon

Posted 19 December 2016 - 09:45 PM

I´m planning to use roll bar like this; it has hollow tube and adjustable knifes.

Mine is D.I.Y-kit, so it has to cut to proper lenhgt and weld those sleeves into it. Those blades are rotating, so you can adjust their stiffness.

IMG_0029.jpg

 

Looks awesome!


Tube80z
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing
So is a lot"

#16 tube80z

tube80z

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderators
  • 1144 posts
  • LocationRickreall, Oregon

Posted 19 December 2016 - 09:57 PM

 Interesting point, hadn't thought of that. But if the links are aligned parallel to the struts then such side loading would be negligible?  The reason why I like the idea of strut connected links is that they can be long and so allow acceptable angularity when their location on the bar is adjusted in or out.

 

The long links are appealing.  I've seen a lot of cars running the bar across like a strut bar and then you have the long link.  You could even hang the bar from the strut bar via rod ends to make a nice low friction mount.  I've seen a couple of touring cars use rockers on the ARB linkage so you can get long links and mount the ARB down low.  You can also fit droop and or pitch limiters this way.

 

As you turn with the strut mounted version you'll see offset that will sideload the strut.  Somewhere I read a quote from a touring car driver that mentioned he had fought understeer on their car all year and then it was solved.  When he asked the race engineer what the change was he said it was the ARB mounting location changing from the strut to the control arm (same wheel rate was seen).  Ideally it would be nice to have some hard data to back this up but I don't.  I just wanted to throw this out there as an FYI.  I personally was all set to do this myself until running across this.  When I took my first class with Rouelle I sat next to a guy who built some really trick cars.  He shared in class how changing the rocker geometry so that the pushrod/rocker/shock were in plane from the old setup where the pushrod was out of plane with the rocker made a large difference in front grip and driver feel.  


Tube80z
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing
So is a lot"

#17 260DET

260DET

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2845 posts
  • LocationWarwick, Q, Australia

Posted 21 December 2016 - 12:44 AM

OK, I'm convinced, bar links to terminate at the LCA's. To use longer links it might be an idea to mount the bar on top of the chassis rails, am going to have to fabricate mounting spots anyway and all that would be otherwise required are holes through the inner guards for the bar to go through. Thanks for the constructive comment chaps.



#18 clarkspeed

clarkspeed

    Member

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 433 posts
  • LocationDowntown Orlando Florida

Posted 21 December 2016 - 10:16 AM

Correction, I am using Genesis aluminum pillow blocks from Hoerr Racing. With aluminum arms and 3/8 rod ends. Very lightweight package but I run less than 150 lb/in stiffness.

S30 Motorsports: Restoring, building, and racing vintage cars.  Current projects: 71 240Z CP Bob Leitzinger tribute vintage race car, 70 240Z partial tube frame IMSA GTU vintage race car, 60 Mini Cooper vintage race car.  "If you are under control you're going too slow" - Parnelli Jones


#19 gnosez

gnosez

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 360 posts
  • LocationMassachusetts

Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:59 PM

The 00008 BSR car and I assume others ran a solid bar through the frame rails in the engine bay. They welded in a section of pipe and had the bar attached to the LCAs. I believe Bob said, soft springs and shocks coupled with stiff sway bars. Will ask JR next week when I'm in Connecticut.

 

I have one of the bars up in the shop and will check it tomorrow for any identification markings.


Edited by gnosez, 21 January 2017 - 01:01 PM.

"you're only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely"

#20 260DET

260DET

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2845 posts
  • LocationWarwick, Q, Australia

Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:31 PM

Got some 1speedway bits, it's all pretty massive except for the hollow bar, the steel arms are simply huge so they will have to be lightened somehow. The mounts I got are quite good, bronze bushes into which the bar slides so unless they are misaligned there should be no binding. I try to keep an eye on the weight of the bolt on bits whatever they are, got some work to do here.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users