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madkaw

Carbs to FI - 9/71

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Thought I would document and take advice on this change over . Just sold off my triples and decided to get going on my MS controlled FI. First step - fuel delivery. My set up might or might not help anyone since I have a unique set up- CJ-5 poly tank .

Going to use a Tank Inc drop in Walbro with sump. Just going to cut another hole in my tank and drop it in. Going to keep my original sender unit in there because it an accurate fuel gauge sender

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I didn't want to make room or a place for a surge tank and this is a better deal for my set up for sure. Don't know if this would drop in a stock tank easy or not. This is the easy part - running new fuel lines will be a bitch

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Yes,  i'm having a B^&%h of a issue trying to keep all my components in the rear (Surge tank, filters, fuel pumps).  It will work, but is not much fun.

Neat contraption.   Your right though, mounting wouldn't be an issue on the stock tank, but having rooms for the lines/fittings above the tank could be troublesome.  With a little bit of welding, i'm sure you could trim the spare tire well to make room while keeping thing tidy.

Good luck.  I'm not too far behind you.

PS:  I'm kind of excited to run new lines. I enjoyed doing the brakes.  Going with 3/8" hard lines myself.  I ended dup with aluminum despite what the internet says.  But i'm in the airline industry.  If it's good enough for a 500 passenger jet, it's good enough for me.

Edited by HuD 91gt

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I contemplated the aluminum , but listened to the critics :)

I might regret it after trying to bend the stuff. I am going old school and skipping all the AN fancy fittings though. I'm going to try and install the new lines in the same place , but it will be fun . Just ordered FPR , SS fuel line and a bunch of fittings and still 250$ + . I figured the AN stuff would have been another 200$

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Good for you for not getting sucked into the AN stuff.  I actually prefer the look of the rubber lines.  Your right, even using the off brands (Jegs/Summit) my bill was $390 + fuel pumps/regulator.  The only reason I went that way was the off chance the car may seem some stringent rules for track duty.  I doubt it, but you never know.

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I'm happy to be watching you go through this because I'm soon to follow! What made you chose the Tank Inc. setup over some of the other ones out there?

 

I'm currently looking at the VetteWorks adapter to run a 4th gen Camaro (LS1) fuel pump and am researching all of our options out there.

 

VetteWorks adapter:  http://www.vetteworksonline.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=89

Installed on a Camaro tank:  http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=56613.0

 

I think the easiest route overall is going with one of these modern in-tank setups since I need to drop my tank to clean it anyway. Austin Hoke did a nice job with the mounting of an Aeromotive setup.

 

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Edited by cockerstar

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I bought ONE aeromotive product -FPR- .cause I wanted to spend for quality there. The tank inc product was all I really found and it worked for me , so I stopped looking . 225$ for the whole kit with Walbro pump . You can't buy 1/2 of an Aeromotive pump for that. I'm not knocking their products , just don't want to spend 1K to convert to FI.

I'm perfectly happy with rubber lines- HELL- OEM stuff is all rubber.

OEM tank presents clearance issues that I don't have. Cutting and welding on a fuel tank gets into serious fab work. This would be better since it's just cutting a hole and dropping in.

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With that Tank Inc unit you'll have to drop down part of the tank too, right? With the outlets on the top you might be able to run a spacer between the top of the tank and the floor and loosen up on the J bolts if you don't. I wouldn't want the outlet of the sump pressed right against the floor though.

 

The price really isn't bad including the pump though!

Edited by cockerstar

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Not sure what you mean. See the pic above. I know you can't tell but I have room above my tank . My spare wheel tub is gone and the tank is framed in just below the floor. I probably have 1.5" of room or more. I am going to cut a hole in the floor for an access panel . I already have an access panel for the sending unit , and I will just make another for this pump.

Maybe one could do something slick in the spare tub well to make clearance for the pump fittings. 

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Well just about finished running a 3/8" supply - that SUCKED ! Put it in OEM position in the tunnel and it was PITA - the SS did not help that either. Had to make new line rubber supports which to a little R&D time . Then there was loosening the wire harness and some brake lines - oh and the DS and ......

I managed to make the supply line long enough to reach the frame , so I need to make a second to go to the fuel rail. That should go faster . In hindsight I might have done zinc steel lines next time . That SS is like superman sh!t to bend .

Going to start on the tank cutting next.

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I've decided to use Swagelocks for all my connections . SS has limited my options ,but regardless the Swagelocks are a strong option.

My areomotive fuelfilter came in as well as clamps and other things . Bad news is that my plastic fuel tank will not work . Not enough flat area on top to support pump lid . I ordered my new steel CJ -5 tank with straps and sending unit for a grand total of 130$ !

Being metal I can work any areas flat I need to, plus gives welding options.

At least the supply line is done and I utilized the original supply line as a return - so no bending required:)

So EFI upgrade plumbing costs:

SS line = 50$

Swagelocks -= 100

Tank inc pump= 250

Fpr = 125$

Fuel filter = 85$

Fuel rail = 150

Injectors = 200$

New tank= 150

 

It's really starting to add up !

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Got my pump installed into my tank - waiting on my sending unit. Everything is just sitting in there finishing mock up. Had to see how things lined up before cutting more holes in my floor. Just got my Swagelocks so they aren't installed . Used plan old copper compression fittings to mock up stuff and figure final sizing on hard lines with fuel filter.

I think I am going to reinstall vent hard line under car to enable to run a proper purge vent system .

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I feel your pain, and im using easy to bend aluminum! One thing id watch, if you dont have solid motor mounts you will have side to side movement with the engine. Is there enough give in that 3 inch piece of rubber between fuel rail hardline and regulator?

Edited by HuD 91gt

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I think it's enough, but might reconsider where it's placed. I might use rubber from rail to hardline so rubber has more side give. Right. Is movemant would be inline with the rubber line, so maybe it would be better to be perpendicular ? Either way I will have rubber connections from engine to chassis .

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Latest pic of my progress. I believe I have the engine bay plumbed-but not tested. Fuel tank and pump is still getting sorted out. Swageloks are pretty cool and seemed to work as intended-again-waiting on pressure check.

I REALLY hope I'm done under the car with running fuel lines-BUT- I still need to consider fuel venting.

Don't really want to run a charcoal canister, but also don't want to just vent uncontrolled. Don't want my garage smelling like gas.

I was actually thinking of using the original emissions valve that connected to the air filter on the early models. Let the pressure in the tank decide when to vent and let it vent to the intake track before the TB. Any thoughts?    

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Edited by madkaw

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And as far as all those components , I was going to move my battery in the back and use the battery tray for everything , HP pump, surge tank ...

I had a couple questions about your setup, and I'm hoping I understand this all correctly. So you are running the Tank inc (this one?) and you are feeding a surge tank in your engine bay, then the high flow pump feeds your fuel rail?

 

Why the surge tank and second pump? Doesn't the little baffled reservoir solve the surge tank problem? and doesn't the pump in the tank provide high pressure already? Why not just run a high pressure line from the tank, to the fuel rail, then to the regulator, then back? What am I missing here?

 

I'm going to be following your thread closely and asking you a ton of questions as you seem to be going through the same process I will be going through. :)

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One more question, you ran 3/8in supply and the factory supply as return. But the pump comes with 1/4in inlet and outlet, did you change those?

Edited by nmehdikh

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Sorry for the delay answering- I've kind of let this thread slip. No surge tank, just Tank Inc set up. That's the one thing I wanted to avoid was running two pumps.

I finally pressure checked everything. Turn pump on-see leak-turn off pump-fix leak-turn on pump-see leak-ect...

In haste I left some Swageloks a little loose, and had to add some Teflon in other areas.

When I finally had all the leaks fixed I noticed after shutting off pump pressure would drop to 0 fast-WTF!   It then dawned on me I had no check valve in the system-oops. Ordered an inline check valve from Summit.

Lucky for me I timed all this while the wife was out of town, because the house smelled like one big gas can ;-o

 

Next step is to throw the head on-but I don't have one ready and my MN47 is under the knife. I am really hurting for time and place to work since in process of building a shop. Quick plan is to convert the E88 for FI. Need to drill for bolts and notch and should be good to go. Of course easier said- than done. Have to make a jig to drill the head. If you look at the head there is no real square surface to sit on a drill press. Bolting L brackets to head surface so I can lay her on her side and drill holes. PITA since I have a puny drill press with very little table surface.        

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Might make starts a little easier - though the MS primes every time before start anyhow. Having fuel everywhere in the fuel system keeps things a wee bit cooler also . Keep things from vapor locking

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