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1973 240Z, L24 questions


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#1 JFPW3097

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:43 AM

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, and also new to the world of Datsun's! Been looking at getting a 240Z for about a year now, and desperately saving to start my project car. 

I've got a good idea as to what I want to do to the car, and a lot of new ideas I don't think have been tried or done before. About 4 months ago I started as an 'Apprentice Automotive Engineer' at McLaren Automotive, so my mechanical and general knowledge of cars is strong, however, I'm still learning and I want to use this car project to help broaden my knowledge and skills. 

I'm fairly familiar with prod. numbers for parts, such as engine blocks and headers etc. But bare with me as I'm still learning, haha! I know people will recommend that I use an L28 over an L24 for power gains, but I'd like to build the car around the L24. I've found a car with matching numbers etc. which I'm going to see in a few hours, to see what I'm saving for!

I want to completely strip down, clean up and rebuild the L24. A few parts I've seen online and am interesting in installing into the L24 are:
- Super lightweight pistons: https://datsunspirit...-l28-size-rods/

- EFI, or ITB's: https://datsunspirit...b-setup-for-l6/

Now the pistons I've found if I'm correct will not fit into the P30 block as the bore is about 3-4mm too big. Is there anyone else that offers lightweight pistons that would fit the P30 block, with an E88 head? If so, are they worth it or would the stock pistons do a good job if cleaned up?

Finally, ITB's or EFI. I'm not too keen on running carbs, and therefore looked to ITB's. Would these fit onto my theoretical L24 setup? I haven't seen much in the way of EFI on an L24, so if anybody could point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated. If anybody could also tell me what the ITB's are like from experience that would be a massive help. 

Like I said, I'm still new to this, but I'm incredibly willing to learn and any experiences or information is much appreciated. There will be more questions in time, haha, but for now, those are just two subjects I'm researching and would like more information about!


Cheers,

Jamie
 

 



#2 Ereschkigal

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:24 AM

How about a later head and a turbo? ECU Master?

The ITBs should work with the right intake manifold.



#3 NewZed

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:49 AM

Those pistons won't work because an L24 block's bore is too small, not too big.  83mm.  Specs. are in the FSM, Engine Mechanical chapter.

 

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/240z/

 

You haven't defined the job, so no way to tell if they'll do a good one or not.  A very common new builder's problem.  Parts with no objective.  Datsun Spirit could probably get you some super lightweight pistons in a smaller bore.  He probably has them just not listed on his site.  If you still want them.

 

ITB's are just one small part of the package.  The holes that allow and control air to the cylinders.  You have to have a way to supply fuel to the TB's.  Search Derek's past threads, he built his own ITB's and used Megasquirt for fueling.

 

Get the books by Monroe and Honsowetz about rebuiliding and modifying.  They're a good starting point.  Could be one reason that you're having new ideas no one else has tried.

 

https://www.amazon.c...k/dp/B006VUICHG

 

https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/1931128049



#4 JFPW3097

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:01 PM

Those pistons won't work because an L24 block's bore is too small, not too big.  83mm.  Specs. are in the FSM, Engine Mechanical chapter.

 

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/240z/

 

You haven't defined the job, so no way to tell if they'll do a good one or not.  A very common new builder's problem.  Parts with no objective.  Datsun Spirit could probably get you some super lightweight pistons in a smaller bore.  He probably has them just not listed on his site.  If you still want them.

 

ITB's are just one small part of the package.  The holes that allow and control air to the cylinders.  You have to have a way to supply fuel to the TB's.  Search Derek's past threads, he built his own ITB's and used Megasquirt for fueling.

 

Get the books by Monroe and Honsowetz about rebuiliding and modifying.  They're a good starting point.  Could be one reason that you're having new ideas no one else has tried.

 

https://www.amazon.c...k/dp/B006VUICHG

 

https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/1931128049

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, I meant too small haha, wrote it in a bit of a rush. Definitely will look into the books you've linked, and when the times comes speak with Datsun Spirit about the pistons, as that was my main question/concern.

For the whole build itself, I basically want to strip down the car down completely, get the body cleaned up and repainted; and work from the ground up. Keeping the originality of the car by sticking with the original N/A L24, but bringing it more up to date with an EFI setup if it's a possibility, or ITB's if not. I want to install more modern, stronger and lighter components such as pistons, connecting rods, valves and a lighter flywheel. Make the engine as light and free revving as "possible." Somewhere in the region of ~250hp, maybe ~300NM of torque, still deciding on power and torque. 

For the rest of the car, I'd like to strengthen the chassis, and more or less update all the suspension components. Full coil over setup, front and rear lower control arms, moustache bar, axles, bushing etc; Wider, front and rear track, tyres and wheels. There's a lot I want to do to the car, and lots that will need to be done so I won't drone on.
I basically just want to bring the car more up to date or modernise it you could say. Clean it up, update it, but keep as much of the originality of the car as I can. It will be used as a weekend car and will see track use.

As for other ideas I've had, they're more aimed towards the chassis and interior side of things rather than mechanical haha! Hope you have a slightly better idea where I'm going with my car. It probably sounds mad, but I'm determined to stick to my build haha!

Thanks again for the information and links, it's much appreciated!

 



#5 NewZed

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:58 PM

Actually, your plan is pretty much what 80% of the people on this site are trying to do.

 

Throttle bodies only control air flow.  Throttle means to obstruct or stop flow.  In the old days people were throttled instead of choked.  Fuel injection of some sort is used with all throttle bodies.  A carburetor is essentially a throttle body combined with a fuel reservoir and little holes that allow fuel to get sucked in via air pressure.

 

Here's the start of a good few threads on ITB's - http://forums.hybrid...-intake-system/

 

The links in the thread are screwed up.  Here's the others.

 

http://forums.hybrid...-first-casting/

 

http://forums.hybrid...pricing-thread/


Edited by NewZed, 10 January 2017 - 08:02 PM.


#6 JFPW3097

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 11:14 AM

Actually, your plan is pretty much what 80% of the people on this site are trying to do.

 

Throttle bodies only control air flow.  Throttle means to obstruct or stop flow.  In the old days people were throttled instead of choked.  Fuel injection of some sort is used with all throttle bodies.  A carburetor is essentially a throttle body combined with a fuel reservoir and little holes that allow fuel to get sucked in via air pressure.

 

Here's the start of a good few threads on ITB's - http://forums.hybrid...-intake-system/

 

The links in the thread are screwed up.  Here's the others.

 

http://forums.hybrid...-first-casting/

 

http://forums.hybrid...pricing-thread/

Oh really? I'll have to have a read into other posts when I get the time. Thank you for the links and explanation, very helpful.
Currently just working out funds to get my 240Z, hopefully, will be here by June if things go to plan!



#7 Enzo250gto

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:17 PM

Hi Jamie, Since you are already in the UK check out Mangolestri  for a Datsun manifold and Jenvey for Throttle bodies. If you want your car to look old school, look at Jenvey's Heritage injection setup. They have throttle bodies in specially cast cases that look like Weber DCOE carbs. You get the old school carb look, but all the internals are EFI.

David



#8 JFPW3097

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:51 PM

Hi Jamie, Since you are already in the UK check out Mangolestri  for a Datsun manifold and Jenvey for Throttle bodies. If you want your car to look old school, look at Jenvey's Heritage injection setup. They have throttle bodies in specially cast cases that look like Weber DCOE carbs. You get the old school carb look, but all the internals are EFI.

David

Hi David,

Thanks for the pointers. Very useful! Only found an Australian site selling the Jenvey's Heritage Injection setup, however on Jenvey's official UK site they said deliveries start Jan. 2017, so I assume this is a new product? 42mm is the ones I'd be wanting, could anybody confirm if I'm correct?

 

Struggling to find somewhere that is selling the Mangolestri manifold, though. Found it on their official websites with a pdf specification file.

-Jamie



#9 Enzo250gto

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 04:15 PM

Hi Jamie,

               I misspelt the Business name (Mangoletsi) . If you go to the where to buy section all UK and worldwide distributors are listed.

                Have a talk to the guys at Jenvey and tell them your plans for the engine and get there recommendations. If I lived in the UK I would buy the Mangoletsi manifold and get the Jenvey boys to set up the throttle bodies and linkages for me.

I would definitely go with the Heritage series so I could have the old school carby look with EFI technology.

              I have a 2.9 litre L28 with all Datsun Spirit and Kameari components waiting to be assembled when the head is completed and this is the way I will be going for that engine.

For simplicity on my existing engine which is a L28 with flattop pistons and a N42 head with 72 degree camshaft I have an Arizona Z 4 barrel manifold and FiTech throttle body with The FiTech fuel command centre suppling the fuel.

Talk to Datsun people and get a firm idea of the direction you want to go with the engine and car and work out your budget before making any major purchases.

Good luck

David.



#10 BJSZED

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:27 PM

Hey Enzo,

 

I have the same induction setup as you. Sent a pm so I don't mess up the op's thread.



#11 JFPW3097

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 03:19 AM

Hi Jamie,

               I misspelt the Business name (Mangoletsi) . If you go to the where to buy section all UK and worldwide distributors are listed.

                Have a talk to the guys at Jenvey and tell them your plans for the engine and get there recommendations. If I lived in the UK I would buy the Mangoletsi manifold and get the Jenvey boys to set up the throttle bodies and linkages for me.

I would definitely go with the Heritage series so I could have the old school carby look with EFI technology.

              I have a 2.9 litre L28 with all Datsun Spirit and Kameari components waiting to be assembled when the head is completed and this is the way I will be going for that engine.

For simplicity on my existing engine which is a L28 with flattop pistons and a N42 head with 72 degree camshaft I have an Arizona Z 4 barrel manifold and FiTech throttle body with The FiTech fuel command centre suppling the fuel.

Talk to Datsun people and get a firm idea of the direction you want to go with the engine and car and work out your budget before making any major purchases.

Good luck

David.

No worries David,

Managed to find the Mangoletsi manifold. When the time comes I will definitely be contacting both Mangolesti and the guys at Jenvey. Thanks for the pointer in their direction, really love the look/idea of having this setup. Mangoletsi manifold and the Jenvey throttle bodies and linkages will make for a pretty awesome setup, I hope! Easy as well since they're both in the UK haha.
Also like you said the Heritage series gives me the old school carb look with EFI technology, which is what I wanted. So massive thanks again!

-Jamie

 






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