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mforget

L28 dual duty build

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mforget    0

UPDATE : since the begining of this build i am looking for a self tuning EFI option that would fit on my L28 and didnt found anything....

 

I have the FAST EZ-EFi 2.0 on my V8 LS track car and this thing is awesome.

 

So i looked at FAST, Holley and FITECH offerings and found that their EFI throttle body kits would fit the L28 with the addition of an 4 barrel intake.

 

I already talked to a tech at comp cams(fast) and he told me that it should work without a problem.

 

I have to say that my experience is very good with the kit i have on my track car, i installed the kit, entered the base parameters, afr targets and the car was running at first start. Im tracking it for the 3rd season now without a single problem....

 

I highly doubt anyone got any experience with this on a L28 but ill ask anyway.

 

Heres the kits in questions :

 

http://fitechefi.com/products/30003/

 

http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/ez-efir-self-tuning-fuel-injection-system-base-kithtml/

 

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-511

 

Is using a 4 barrel intake and efi should give some benefits over the oem datsun intake and megasquirt?

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mforget    0
Posted (edited)

Take a look in the fuel delivery section

 

Ho youre so right.....

 

Great infos right there..

 

Sorry!

 

But i am still wondering if there is any benefits performance wise over a megasquirt setup....

Edited by mforget

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mforget    0
Posted (edited)

Thread revival :)

 

Im about to start my engine work, i now have to choose a camshaft kit for my planned setup :

 

77' L28 with flat top pistons

N47 head will be sent for port and polish to match my cam

Aftermaket EFI will be used

Stock intake manifold.

Headers and exhaust will be installed.

 

Will be doing mainly street and occasional track days with this car.

 

Im likely to buy one of the schneider cam kits from zstore : http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic12e03/10-2000

 

So i have 2 questions :

 

1- Knowing that i will be using the stock L28 intake manifold, am i wasting money by going with a "big" cam like the 10-2005?

 

2- Stock injectors should be good for 200-250 hp from my understanding so no need to upgrade them right?

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

Edited by mforget

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turbogrill    0

Thread revival :)

 

Im about to start my engine work, i now have to choose a camshaft kit for my planned setup :

 

77' L28 with flat top pistons

N47 head will be sent for port and polish to match my cam

Aftermaket EFI will be used

Stock intake manifold.

Headers and exhaust will be installed.

 

Will be doing mainly street and occasional track days with this car.

 

Im likely to buy one of the schneider cam kits from zstore : http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic12e03/10-2000

 

So i have 2 questions :

 

1- Knowing that i will be using the stock L28 intake manifold, am i wasting money by going with a "big" cam like the 10-2005?

 

2- Stock injectors should be good for 200-250 hp from my understanding so no need to upgrade them right?

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

 

 

1. Not sure but I woulnd't race past 6500 RPMs unless you have forged pistons, after market ignition and a really good balanced bottom end.

Maybe it's ok for redlight racing but not track duty.

 

2. Stock turbo injectors might be but from what I understand the stock non turbo will fall flat before 200hp.  

 

I finished my megasquirt fuel only installation a few weeks a go. From someone that doesn't know anything about electronics or cars it might be a daunting task. But if you have worked with car electronics before it shoudn't be to bad. Time consuming for sure.

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madkaw    18

I'd budget in Megasquirt for sure and do fuel AND ignition .

Regrind your cam- go big

Find a mn47 head and get bigger seats put in and swap over intake valves from your head.

Clean up short side radius and be done with head

Pallnet fuel rail and run high impedance injectors

Don't touch the bottom end - but you can look at with the head off and say- 'looks good'

Clean up that engine compartment

Put a header on later if you want noise

Gearing makes for fun

post-1083-0-73920400-1502302726_thumb.jpg

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JavelinZ    0
Posted (edited)

BRAAP had a really good efi induction FAQ type thread a few years back that had a lot of info. I don't remember what section it is under anymore. But it should be there.

 

Stock NA injectors won't do it.

Cam is a waste of money on stock L28 intake, intake is the first real restriction you run into, especially NA.

Several guys with stock turbo engines I know made 230-240 hp on stock turbo injectors. Injectors were maxed at 240hp. NA injectors won't make it.

 

Honestly a $2000 budget isn't going to get you 200hp pretty much regardless of how you cut it. I know of several people with builds along the lines of what you have pitched with triples and a cam and those cars put down about 130 at the wheels.

 

If you want 200hp NA you're gonna have to give Rebello $10k from what I've seen of a rebello motor car that I thought was quick.

 

Or you can run a turbo motor, an ecu, and z31 turbo and make 230hp and 275tq. At least that is what my friends car is running (it's faster than the Rebello motored car by the way)

 

That's my two cents from what I have seen from several iterations of friends builds in town since I started into Z cars back in '08

If you want NA power I'd expect to basically throw all of that $2000 budget at paying someone that knows their way around an L head to work the chambers and the ports into shape and I wouldn't be surprised if it took more cash to get the head finished.

 

Regards

Edited by JavelinZ

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mforget    0

Hey thanks for all the advice!

 

Yeah I changed my budget for the engine work!

 

But budget is growing real fast for not much hp from my calculations....

 

Injectors question is answered, i will go for bigger ones....

 

Now you have me wondering again about that restrictive stock efi intake......

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madkaw    18

Not sure I agree that the intake is the weak point in the power equation. Also not sure a cam is a waste of time on the intake. As I have posted on my thread that power wise I can not tell the difference between the triple 40's I was running and my N42. Granted I was only running 32 chokes on the 40's, I believe with the proper tuning abilities you can probably get your dual purpose engine. 

There isn't a lot of guys actually doing hot NA EFI engines on here with aftermarket ECU. Most cases its a turbo version, so not a lot to compare to.  

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mforget    0

My plan was to use the z car depot ez-efi self tuning kit that they developped for the stock intake....but if the stock intake is a real problem, i may just put a 4 barell intake and ran an ez-efi electronic throttle body instead....i dont have patience to mess with carbs anymore....

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madkaw    18

Spending money on a different intake and TB is money you could be spending somewhere else. I'm running a 490/290 cam with my N42 just fine and I bet I get 30 mpg on the highway MPG. You are asking about a car you can drive to the track and back home then its all about tuning and YES-head work .   

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rturbo 930    27

If you want 200hp NA you're gonna have to give Rebello $10k from what I've seen of a rebello motor car that I thought was quick.

Did you mean to say 300hp? If not, that's blatantly wrong. It's not that hard to get 200hp from an L28. 300hp is a different story.

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mforget    0

Im still not ruling out the 4 bbl intake, considering i would have to buy a pallnet fuel rail, injectors, probably 60mm throttle body + z car depot ez efi kit....i could just buy the arizona z car 4 bbl intake and ez-efi throttle body kit and be done with it....cost would probably be similar...it probably flows a bit better as well....cleans up the engine bay....i dont know...

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madkaw    18

No porting - just cleaned up runners around screw bosses

EFI kit z car depot 1300$

MS3 with harness - 800$

Fuel rail - 150$

New injectors - 225$

4 bbl intake -$?

Cam regrind and springs $

 

You need to write it all out and crunch the numbers .

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mforget    0

I already started yess....

I would have to have someone finetune the ms3 for me and probably a dyno run so those costs adds to ms3 as well....ez-efi is nice for this you start the engine and go.....as stated before i already have one on my race car and i was impressed with that thing....

 

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AjU5VB8wXXw3lBnqqy2VusfxaXvp

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turbogrill    0

I would look into Microsquirt, it's a MS2 based durable version, intended for motorcycles and open cars.

 

I couldn't justify doing MS3, that extra ~400 can be spend else where. Only thing you can do with MS3 over MS2 is:

- Sequential injection (point less on our engines)

- Not wasted spark (Wasted spark is fune unless mega turbo or other crazyness)

- SD card logging. (Just have your laptop in your car for the first months or so)

 

Please let me know if I am wrong!!!

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madkaw    18

I believe your wrong on the comparison , but I slept since I bought mine -lol. MS3 comes ready to plug in smart coils , so no opening the box to solder in anything . Also had built in map sensor soldered in. MS3 357 board is machine soldered- less chance of issues.

MS3 has larger tables for tuning , etc... I think you are understating things.

 

I still believe you should swap out the head and bump compression and get a much bigger cam if you are going with a programmable ECU. Why spend all the ECU money and not do the single most important thing to these motors by waking them up with a cam. Hell, I could have gone with an even bigger cam than my Isky- this engine is perfect for the street .

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madkaw    18
Posted (edited)

I already started yess....

I would have to have someone finetune the ms3 for me and probably a dyno run so those costs adds to ms3 as well....ez-efi is nice for this you start the engine and go.....as stated before i already have one on my race car and i was impressed with that thing....

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AjU5VB8wXXw3lBnqqy2VusfxaXvp

So dyno tune not required with this ECU?

I am not saying one is better than the other either, just asking

Edited by madkaw

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turbogrill    0

I believe your wrong on the comparison , but I slept since I bought mine -lol. MS3 comes ready to plug in smart coils , so no opening the box to solder in anything . Also had built in map sensor soldered in. MS3 357 board is machine soldered- less chance of issues.

MS3 has larger tables for tuning , etc... I think you are understating things.

 

 

 

Don't want to hijack the thread, but your right! There are a few more things you mentioned with the sensors and drivers. Also USB and maybe something else. I understated things.

I had to buy the MAP sensor and build a container for it, some extra cables. Same goes for drivers, maybe MS3 is an easier and more stable path.

 

The only downside with MS3 is the connector and size! Microsquirt is somewhat water proof and has an AMP seal connector.

 

However I do believe Microsquirt is also machine soldered? That was the biggest thing for me.

 

 

So dyno tune not required with this ECU?

I am not saying one is better than the other either, just asking

 

Always dyno for best results. But you can get going and get decent performance in your garage. Basic tuning with Megasquirt/Tunerstudio is a pleasure!! 

Took me a few hours to go from not starting and running better than stock EFI (for a stock engine). And I am not a good tuner in anyway. To get the last 10% performance requires some skills.

 

Also get a wideband.

 

It might be hard to get something that works in both -30F and +120F, in Holland (under sea level) and at Mount Everest. someone else can chime in on that. I just made it work for Texas weather.

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mforget    0

So dyno tune not required with this ECU?

I am not saying one is better than the other either, just asking

No dyno required as the ecu is self tuning. Based mainly on wideband sensor data......may not be 100% optimal like a real dyno tune but it can run really good let me tell you.....

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