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Trevor bergeron

500whp AWD rb25det s2 in 76 280?

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I'm Trevor, I'm 19 and I'm trying to build my datsun to be unique and to be built correctly and treat it with the love I have for it. I don't ever hear of any actual AWD s30s and want to make one. I'm ready to do what ever is necessary to get this car done and to enjoy it. Not the typical teenager looking to mod his car. I wanted to create this so I could get some help from others knowledge and Mabey habe a few other people learn as well. I have numerous questions I would love to have answered. I am planning to put both front and rear subframes from a r33 onto my car, but was also curious just how my h fabrication exactly there is to do, has anyone done it? And if so I would love to talk with you and learn! Also about power steering how to get that wo work weather I have to put a steering Colin or shaft from a r33 as well, it just what. And I know I will come up with more as I progress in this build! Would.love the help and support!

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Hi Trevor

 

Not to poop on your idea but that kind of undertaking is daunting for an experienced fabricator let alone someone of your age. I'm 58 and have a full fabrication shop, and I mean full, and I would think twice about this job even if I was getting paid.

 

Search out "Project Binky" on youtube. They are doing a AWD conversion on a Mini Cooper.  After watching all 15 episodes you will have a better idea of what's involved in this type of conversion. It will give you an idea of the tools and skill sets required. 

 

You most likely won't get much of a response here because this is a project that really isn't feasible for most people. 

 

Derek

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Many have tried this and failed.  Most of the AWD projects that have come up on hybridz have died a slow death and have not been finished ( to my knowledge) I have been building a LS swapped car for the last 10 years and it is tedious to say the least if you are going to do it right..... ( trust me I know)

I am not saying you can't do it, because where there is a will there is a way but be prepared for hurdle after hurdle..... good luck.

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It has been done, but like Derek said it will be a crazy amount of work.  In the end the one I saw was pretty much a tube chassis with an S-30 body on top.  I have definitely dreamed of an AWD S-30 as well, but I would have to hit the lottery in order to realize it (because of time and money both).  If you dont have the fab skills and tools yourself, then it will be insanely expensive to have someone do it for you.  Learning those skills and then taking the time to do the project yourself would take years likely, unless you have absolutely nothing else to do.  It can be done, but I would not recommend it for a beginner or even a fairly skilled hobbyist.  Like texis30O said, a lot of projects (even including basic RWD swaps) end up fizzling out and never make it to the end.  

 

My suggestion would be to start with something a bit more tried and true for your first swap.  It really helps to build your skills and confidence when you go to do something bigger down the road.  I feel that most car projects that people give up on are a result of going to big to fast with their very first car.  It is easy to get overwhelmed and forget what you are trying to obtain, loose interest, or just get in way too deep financially, especially if you have never done something like this before.  The folks who have been successful in doing big swaps/conversions normally have done many other more basic swaps and conversions before.

 

Whatever you do, I hope you can stick with it and that you enjoy yourself.  Post pictures as you go!  We all love a good build/project thread!

 

Cheers

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If you haven't worked on these cars before, I would definitely echo what others have said and suggest you start with just a refresh on your Z's stock components. It'll be a huge learning process and give insight into what you need to do. I recently changed out the bushings on my 280,and you'd be amazed how time consuming and exhausting even a simple job like that is when you're working with 40 year old components and rubber.

 

Ares had this same dream and he's been working on these since you were in kindergarten. He'd be a good one to talk to if you want an idea of what's involved and to get a little more level headed on whether or not it's something you'll be able to do. Check out this thread he had.

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/124957-gtr-v-spec-240z-build-awd-rb26-twin-28rs-blood-sweat-tears-money/

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Well I definatley appreciate all of the positive words along with the ho.est ones just as much, I do have quite a bit experience with cars, more then most people my age. I have multiple friends that are willing to help me with this project, for example one of my biggest supporters him and his dad have a fully fabricated a 87 jeep j10 pick up with 14 inches of suspension travel with custom built coilovers from a componay and they have a fully built 350 Chevy twin turboed that will be at 850 horse to the wheels with inconol valves and forged piston and rods and crank. So I definatly habe supporters and helpers, that are all willing to put in hours and brain work. I do fully understand the part of not experiencing alot of normal swaps first but I am also looking for that kind of a challenge to say back to the bay Sayers! Again I appreciate so much all of the words said by everyone! I have been doing research for countless hours for about a year now and finally have my car and want to get going! But I will continue to keep a open mind about it and make sure this project never dies! Hard work and driving hard and fast is in my blood, everyone in my family drives, so I'm excited to make my older generations of my family proud! I am more then willing to talk to and get a hold of any e that is interested in this build and would.like to contribute knowledge wise, again appreciate all the responds!

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Posted (edited)

A solid group of supporters definitely helps.  I'm sure nobody here was or is trying to scare you away from your project, we just want to make sure you are fully aware of the challenges that a project of this size will bring.  This forum has a constant stream of people (usually teenagers) who join up having just bought their first Z and who know nothing about cars, but still want to do some crazy swap or something.    Some of these folks really do end up getting into it and finishing their project, but many end up loosing steam and giving up.  And no car enthusiasts like to see others fail and give up on their projects.  Not to say that teenagers can not be knowledgeable about cars.  I myself and a lot of my friends were doing engine swaps and rebuilds in high-school, so I wasnt trying to take a crack at your age or anything.  

 

I sincerely wish you the best on your project.  Good to see that folks are still willing to go big right from the start.  

Edited by Pillar

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Another obstacle you'll have to face is funds.

 

Most teenagers don't have the thousands of dollars that an undertaking like this will cost. 

 

Just getting the engine in, with the drivetrain in place will be a daunting task as is, but then you say you also want to make 500whp out of it...

 

It's not just plugging the ECU into a computer and cranking the boost up with a new turbo, there's a lot of work that goes into doing that. And that work also costs a lot of money.

 

If you can get this project done for under 20k, I'd be impressed, or worried that you cut corners where you shouldn't have.

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The fact that you are asking how to make power steering work is a giant red flag to me and I'm guessing that this project is way beyond what you should attempt.  But good luck and take lots of pics.  

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never mind about the power steering, i hadn't looked at anything the slightest about it and hadn't messed with it before. it is one of the very few things i had not done any research on, been using priorities like looking into what it takes to get it running in the car first, and that stuff second. i posted this to get other peoples  opinions and learn more about the swap. i appreciate all of the polite people and their words and would love to talk more. but if you are going to post negatively focused posts doubting the experience and knowledge i have personally then i simply will not reply. i am still going do this AWD swap, i am not giving up even if everyone tells me not to do it, which isnt the case already, people are supportive. . shooting to have it in the car and running as RWD by next summer, then when i get most of the bad kinks worked out of it, then, i will do this drivetrain swap. if anyone would  like to talk more ad offer their knowledge and experience then message me personally and we can talk more. love talking with other car guys and learning more! thank everyone again. look forward to talking.

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The fact that you are asking how to make power steering work is a giant red flag to me and I'm guessing that this project is way beyond what you should attempt.  But good luck and take lots of pics.  

Yup.

 

19 years old, no experience mentioned, and taking on something that even most experienced fabricators would find difficult. On top of that, the questions being asked here suggest that this project is way out of his league. IMO this is one of those things where if you have to ask, the answer is no.

 

I understand being young and ambitious, having been there and done that, but I really doubt this project will ever get past the stage of cutting the chassis up to fit everything. Start smaller, get yourself some skills and experience - and maybe a reference for just how much work this is going to be - and then after you've done that, consider doing this project.

 

It's easy to watch someone online turn a stock Z into a track monster, but when you try doing it yourself, you realize that what you see online is just the highlight reel, and the hard part was mostly left out of the pictures. Some people may have a natural talent for these things, and will actually have some success just diving in and going for it, but those people are rare, and you shouldn't assume that you're one of them.

 

but if you are going to post negatively focused posts doubting the experience and knowledge i have personally then i simply will not reply. i am still going do this AWD swap,

 

So basically if anyone comes in here and and they aren't cheering you on, you're going to ignore them? Listening to only the advice you like isn't going to get you very far. And again, you're 19. You just haven't had much time to gain experience and knowledge. Of course people are going to doubt that. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

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Here is the link to episode one of project binkey. I highly recommend everyone that is into this stuff watches the series as it's incredibly entertaining and very informative.

 

  • Like 1

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Posted (edited)

It is bit different to do swap with bolt on-parts. Subframes need lot´s of farbrication and you don´t have anything ready there. Everything must build from nothing.

 

Using R33 subframes, why not. They are just a bit too wide, IMO. Why do I know this shit? Because I´v build R32 rear suspension in my 240Z. You are wery welcome to look my project and after that give you´r honest opinion, did it look easy?

 

By the way, I would´n start to doing this when I was 19....

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/120418-arttu´s-240z-never-ready/?p=1127575

Edited by TUME

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i think basically, no one has done this. you wont need much help here cause your going to end up with a datsun shell with everything else from a different car.

is it impossible? no. is it alot of work? hell yeah. we dont know your capabilities and money supply. your gonna need alot of both. if all that is in place than have at it! i wish you good luck. if you manage to get it done, post pics please. prove everyone wrong. 

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Posted (edited)

Doesnt look that hard to me. Just graft the chassis onto a truck chassis :P

 

f05a9c8c9221ba24a66f2aae38fbf8a7--a-rat-63c201e717ce1493ffb442bd18b282d9--datsunpost-9446-12699948932212.jpg

 

But really. The chassis is just not setup for it. Biggest issue is the frame rails are right in the way. It just wasn't built for it. 

 

Still going sub. Good luck!

Edited by jacky4566

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Posted (edited)

never mind about the power steering, i hadn't looked at anything the slightest about it and hadn't messed with it before. it is one of the very few things i had not done any research on, been using priorities like looking into what it takes to get it running in the car first, and that stuff second. i posted this to get other peoples  opinions and learn more about the swap. i appreciate all of the polite people and their words and would love to talk more. but if you are going to post negatively focused posts doubting the experience and knowledge i have personally then i simply will not reply. i am still going do this AWD swap, i am not giving up even if everyone tells me not to do it, which isnt the case already, people are supportive. . shooting to have it in the car and running as RWD by next summer, then when i get most of the bad kinks worked out of it, then, i will do this drivetrain swap. if anyone would  like to talk more ad offer their knowledge and experience then message me personally and we can talk more. love talking with other car guys and learning more! thank everyone again. look forward to talking.

 

I'm sorry if my post offended you or upset you by my lack of faith in your ability.  However, the reality is this, the size of the project is immense.  You are asking how much fabrication is necessary, almost as though you are hoping it is primarily a bolt-on affair.  

 

Almost without exception, when someone asks the question "how much fabrication is necessary?"  the answer is "more than you think."  Anyone who has done any real fabrication on their car, probably look at this idea and immediately have a few thoughts.  1. Holy shit, that is going to be A LOT of work/time/money. 2. I hope the original poster is truly capable of this if he starts  3. And if he isn't capable, then I hope the original poster can recognize it and avoid costing himself a lot of time/money in route to ruining a potentially good S30 chassis.    

 

Look at what TUME post and think really hard about it and realize that is just the rear.  You are likely going to have to completely chop up the front as well.      

 

I mentioned the power steering question because it isn't a question that someone with the requisite knowledge/experience/abilities for a project of this size would ever need to ask.  It's like someone setting up a chess match with a chess master for a couple thousand dollars and then asking the rules for how a pawn moves and attacks.  Could they beat the chess master?  Sure, anything could happen.  The most likely outcome though is disappointment.  

 

I hope someone changes your mind, but good luck if you continue on.  

Edited by Namor

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Posted (edited)

I'm not saying don't do it, but a year of "research" can mean anything. Reading through people's ideas and some forum posts isn't exactly research for a project of this kind.

Mark Rohlston has one of the craziest S30 builds I've ever seen and he decided against it. 

 

From this thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/108582-240z-awd-swap/

 

 

I considered it. The frame on my new VQ based tubeframe Z would have fit the needed front diff but the complexity of a second axle setup and tuning the resulting drivetrain seemed like a nightmare. I'm not sure you'd end up with a faster car than simply keeping a 2wd car light and well balanced.

 

6947941720_f546e236c3_b.jpg

 

 
 
Something similar has been done, but I don't know of much documentation. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/51972-240z-awd-conversion/
 
Some videos for your interest, though these are the closest thing I've actually seen running, and it's not AWD, he used a 4wd system out of a Toyota Hilux.
 
Edited by Zetsaz

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On 11/9/2017 at 9:36 AM, 510sr20det said:

there are 2 RB26 AWD 240z in Japan.  Motor must be moved forward for alinement of axles.  a ton of work for little or no real gain... Great for showing off your work..

There are a lot more than that. The six or seven that I've personally seen all start with the front clip from the BNR. Uses the frame members, cross member, front support, etc. Aprons and suspension are all custom, with pipe uppers.

 

Old post, but to the OP, It's a ridiculous amount of work for not much gain, as the car already has fantastic traction from the get-go. I'm guessing that with the way the engine sits forward in "Skyline" position, it actually handles worse.

 

 

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I did several awd swaps in many s30s very easy actually xbox 360 Forza game :) haha sorry couldn't help it!

I am not saying you cant do it and I am not against "big dreamers" / uniqueness but like what everybody said before me. Too hard and too costly unless you watched project Binky just get some angle grinders out drink lots of tea!

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