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jr_soliz2010

2jz Megasquirt help

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Hello everyone, I'm sure this has been brought up before but ive researched for the past few weeks and with several people throwing opinions at me,  i need some clarification.  I'm going bald stressing over this.  

I have a 75 280z 

2jzge rebuilt na-t.

First shop -" Go microsquirt". Their cost to wire up - $800 and supposedly 2 weeks. 4 weeks in,  never touched it.  

Second shop-"Go megasquirt assembled unit since its cheaper and we'll wire it up." $750. Bought the ems and they said it was the wrong one.  I called DIY and they said it was perfect just needs to be wired up. Shop said something about batch fire wouldnt work or something. 

3rd shop is my auto tech school-$free but they wouldnt touch the megasquirt v2. So i gave them my laptop amd told them to order the f**ken unit i need. They ordered the MS3x. Its beeb 2 weeks and my instructor hasnt touched my car or even given me a chance to start.  Personally i feel as if they don't know what to do.  I'm ready to do it myself.  

Is there a write up on how to wire this up. By now i regret not going plug n play since thats what its costing already. The diagram online looks simple and im ready to take a chance on trying it that way.  I do have the original engine harness but all jacked up.  All plugs are there though. So do i cut the pigtails off and splice into the labeled Megasquirt harness to their respected wires? Whats the easiest way to go about this? I have 3 ems in my possession and this was supposed to be "budget build".  This is the unit i have.  Any write ups or advice other than "buy pnp"? 

ms3x357-c_bl2-180x180.jpg

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Goodness.

1st shop is lame.

2nd shop is wrong. DIY is right. I have a MS2 running my 2jz on batch fire.

3rd I honestly don't know.

Well they do have plug and play units for the 2jzgte, the na group kind of gets left out since we have a distributor. Depending on what ignition setup you are going with will determine kind of what megasquirt you can choose assuming you want megasquirt to control ignition and you aren't going with a stand alone ignition control mechanism.

Megasquirt is a DIY kind of thing. If you aren't willing to DIY then it would be better to go with one of the bigger brand names as more run of the mill shops are familiar with installing those systems (by installing I mean ordering the kit and the wiring harness and plugging them in).

With that said, it is completely possible. Dexter and I both have 2jz NA-T's running off megasquirt, I think he is running off of MS1, I have MS2. 

Here is a really crummy video I made trying to go over it. 

The engine is a 7mgte, but I am using the exact same setup on the 2jz. I don't think I actually changed anything on the harness at all from that motor.

 

Frist things first.

If you are going to attempt this you need some wiring bits. Parts that are close to the engine, generally shouldn't be soldered according to many. I have some connections soldered that have been holding fine, but alas. That means investing in some tools to get you really proper reliable connections. The best would be to get like a weatherpack kit and wire everything fresh with new pins and complete lengths of wire. That is pricey, so you can go with generic crimps. Your connections should be solid so that they have little to no resistance and that you feel comfortable pulling on as if it was one length of wire. If you can pull your connection apart, either find a way that makes the connection more reliable (ratcheting crimper) or use another method (non insulated crimps with a long leverage crimper and heat shrink over the connection).

Once you can reliably make connections (I cannot stress this enough, one bad connection and you might be chasing shadows or worse fry your ecu), then look at the wiring diagram and sort it by what you actually have and what you plan to run. A simple word document like in the video is fine. Pin 1 = X color = X function = connects to x color on stock harness etc etc

Once you have your pinout go out and buy quality automotive wire of various colors, most likely 18-14 gauge, with maybe a couple in the 12-10 gauge for heavier power usage items (full copper stranded, not coated aluminum), wires that you plan on running near hot sources you should really consider getting SXL or GXL I believe. These wires have a higher heat insulation. Or plan ahead and route your harness away from hot sources or pickup heat proof shielding for them.

Now you have your map, your connection method that you fully trust, and your supplies. It is all about going down your list and making each connection. There are two schools of thought. Some say to make each wire exactly the length you want. Other say to leave a loop in case you need to pull the harness to move it out of the way of something down the road. Your choice, I did the loop, plus lots of disconnect points, makes pulling the engine a lot easier.

Once you get everything wired you want to find a base map and input all the base settings. Once you think you are close, double check all the wires or have someone else check them before you think of hooking up the power. Remember one wrong connection you can short something. 

From then on it is a matter of enabling test mode and testing all your connections to make sure they are functioning correctly. Once you have determined everything is working (fuel pump, injectors, spark outputs) then you can begin to crank and time the motor with the fuel pump disabled. Adjust the timing offset to match what is on the car. Once you have established you have proper timing, good fuel pressure, and oil pressure then start the motor. At that point you are in the realm of working out the base settings and tune.

 

Edited by seattlejester

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Before you bug someone else, make sure you look into getting them all the info they need. 

Injectors you are going to use, your ignition method, your sensors etc. 

Would be a real shame if you had to cut up a new harness.

Would be understandable as well if you wanted to forgo outside services, granted I've heard nothing but good things. 

I've seen some bad radio jobs, and we have probably seen our fair share of botched swap harnesses. Just take a step back or ask a friend to evaluate your wiring, see if they would be comfortable running it. If not, get to a point you feel real comfortable with. I don't proceed anymore until I can do a full tug, and afterwards I throw on the multimeter to check for a continuity drop as I twist the connection to make sure no break occurs.

Other than that a modern radio is probably just as complicated in some regards. Just keep track and make it easy for someone to double check your work. 

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6 hours ago, seattlejester said:

Before you bug someone else, make sure you look into getting them all the info they need. 

Injectors you are going to use, your ignition method, your sensors etc. 

Would be a real shame if you had to cut up a new harness.

Would be understandable as well if you wanted to forgo outside services, granted I've heard nothing but good things. 

I've seen some bad radio jobs, and we have probably seen our fair share of botched swap harnesses. Just take a step back or ask a friend to evaluate your wiring, see if they would be comfortable running it. If not, get to a point you feel real comfortable with. I don't proceed anymore until I can do a full tug, and afterwards I throw on the multimeter to check for a continuity drop as I twist the connection to make sure no break occurs.

Other than that a modern radio is probably just as complicated in some regards. Just keep track and make it easy for someone to double check your work. 

This. There are quite a few sensor/injector/coil options out there that can widely swing the harness cost. 

Side question for you though Seattlejester. If you're coming from a 7MGTE, why not use it's CPS in your 2JZ to get away from batch fire?

Edited by Geno750

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Really not much benefit to sequential if you don't need the advantage of the longer pulse duration you can get away with. I am running semi sequential or multi squirt so I am already kind of taking advantage of it as is. We had a whole long discussion on the semantics of it. Basically though the repeating theme was that there was little to no benefit in the power category. Only some efficiency down low to gain.

CPS sensor is really quite pricey. I had two to play with and they both had fairly discolored wires. I had to chop quite a bit before I could get some wire that wasn't all green and corroded.

CPS sensor also didn't play nice with my MS board, the signal it output was really low. I couldn't get it to read reliably until 400rpm with a drill. The car cranking I think maxed out at like 150-200rpm so the CPS wouldn't even recognize the starter trying to start. I did mess around with pots and such, but that was the best I could get it to go. 

Edited by seattlejester

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SO what do you have now a microsquirt, ms2 or ms3x I got lost with all the difference shops? I havent done any 2jz harness but its pretty much the same as well any ms3x but I could do it for you I did an ms3 pro which is a bit more on a lseries full sequential.  I will actually do a 2jz swap in one of my zeds over the winter so will add some more products to the line I am also working on another new EMS that I will be a dealer for in the next month.  You also did not mention which 2jzNA is it from they do come in full sequential I believe and distributor based Correct me if Iam wrong>?!

There are many options for you at this point keep in mind the toyota injectors are toyota specific as well other inputs and outputs in the engine. It really depends on what parts you have also ignition options are available many of them actually (stock wasted NA jz dizzy, sequential wasted full sequential ) then there's coils JZ, LS ,LS struck, yaris  ahh yes the joys of megasquirt. My best advice to you is set down goals,  see what parts/ecu you have and what your trying to do match the two and make a gameplan to attack. Secondly you want to do this right the first time I hate hacking an old harness and trying to repin/depin and remove unnecessary wires etc. Seatle gave some great advice get some wire or even better the 8ft flying lead harness for whichever ECU you have and make a new harness lay it out wire it. Also good idea to run new fuses / relays all that.

 

Good luck

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5 hours ago, softopz said:

SO what do you have now a microsquirt, ms2 or ms3x I got lost with all the difference shops? I havent done any 2jz harness but its pretty much the same as well any ms3x but I could do it for you I did an ms3 pro which is a bit more on a lseries full sequential.  I will actually do a 2jz swap in one of my zeds over the winter so will add some more products to the line I am also working on another new EMS that I will be a dealer for in the next month.  You also did not mention which 2jzNA is it from they do come in full sequential I believe and distributor based Correct me if Iam wrong>?!

There are many options for you at this point keep in mind the toyota injectors are toyota specific as well other inputs and outputs in the engine. It really depends on what parts you have also ignition options are available many of them actually (stock wasted NA jz dizzy, sequential wasted full sequential ) then there's coils JZ, LS ,LS struck, yaris  ahh yes the joys of megasquirt. My best advice to you is set down goals,  see what parts/ecu you have and what your trying to do match the two and make a gameplan to attack. Secondly you want to do this right the first time I hate hacking an old harness and trying to repin/depin and remove unnecessary wires etc. Seatle gave some great advice get some wire or even better the 8ft flying lead harness for whichever ECU you have and make a new harness lay it out wire it. Also good idea to run new fuses / relays all that.

 

Good luck

Well Said,

 

This is why I will be happy to spend my money on this guy!

 

Sadly I already made my own and went with Microtech..

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I think the later is300 2jz don't have distributors, early sc300 and gs300 I believe did. You can get a trigger wheel on the crank pretty easily and making a mount for the HES isn't too bad if you want to open up your choices for timing control.

The denso injectors are fairly interchangeable. The 2jzge rail and intake manifold will fit 7mgte or rx7 injectors with little to no modification. If you want to swap to bosch though now would be a good time to do so as injector conversion harnesses can be expensive if you have painstakenly wired in all the stock injector clips.

Coolant temp can definitely be piped into megasquirt.

TPS can be re-used, or you can run pretty much any throttle body with an appropriate range. I have a 7mgte, dexter has a 1uzfe, and many others are running the vh45de throttle bodies. I'm not sure about the knock sensor. I'd honestly really like to get mine up and running as a safety precaution. 

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9 hours ago, seattlejester said:

I think the later is300 2jz don't have distributors, early sc300 and gs300 I believe did. You can get a trigger wheel on the crank pretty easily and making a mount for the HES isn't too bad if you want to open up your choices for timing control.

The denso injectors are fairly interchangeable. The 2jzge rail and intake manifold will fit 7mgte or rx7 injectors with little to no modification. If you want to swap to bosch though now would be a good time to do so as injector conversion harnesses can be expensive if you have painstakenly wired in all the stock injector clips.

Coolant temp can definitely be piped into megasquirt.

TPS can be re-used, or you can run pretty much any throttle body with an appropriate range. I have a 7mgte, dexter has a 1uzfe, and many others are running the vh45de throttle bodies. I'm not sure about the knock sensor. I'd honestly really like to get mine up and running as a safety precaution. 

Yes I thought some 2jz had dizzys thats why I asked him which he has cause he only mentioned 2jz NA. Theres so many ways to tackle a harness and standalone setup especially since its Megasquirt. The *best" in my opinion is to see what you already have and work from there remember he is also a student on a budget> we all been there some of us may not be students but on a budget..... ( oh no I used the B word )

 

15 hours ago, Greeko said:

Well Said,

 

This is why I will be happy to spend my money on this guy!

 

Sadly I already made my own and went with Microtech..


Thanks BRO! I would still be happy to accept your money anytime or anyone's money for that matter I do not discriminate.

Edited by softopz

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Hi sorry for not responding earlier. Kinda forgot about this post lol. Ok so heres my set up and honestly, its very basic and not crazy.

2JZ-GE from a 1995 GS300

2006 CD009

LQ9 coils

Stock injectors.

aiming for 300-500 hp. Mild rebuild (rings gapped for boost, looser clearances, stock headgasket) 

MS3x with harnesses

AEM wideband

Ebay everything. Throttle body, mounts, intake plenum.

EGR deleted. Oil level deleted. Distributor cap and rotor deleted. (saw on another post that dizzy is used for cam position sensor). 

Manual boost controller.

 

22181374_1555322387858393_5401835299512937809_o.jpg

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How are you going to signal for ignition? Trigger wheel? 2jzgte timing gear and sensor?

Stock injectors are woefully inadequate. They are like 250cc, figure out your power goals and order accordingly.

The ebay throttle body for that intake manifold is massive and will be a bit problematic to clear the radiator, advise adapting to a different pattern or at least sticking a wedge to tilt the throttle body.

Other than that, it should be really straight forward to wire up. Order a 10ft harness from DIY for the ECU you have and start laying it out.

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Make an effort, do your own research. That is something you have to figure out for yourself. You need something that rotates with the engine. If you want sequential it has to move with the cam, if you don't care then it can move with the crank. Both systems will require a missing tooth to signal the location in rotation. Gut the distributor and weld on a wheel and sensor setup, bolt a trigger wheel and sensor onto the crank. Cut the bell housing and drill holes in the pressure plate/flywheel. Options are as creative or as lazy as you want here.

Whatever injector you decide you have to decide. That is what will get you your injector clips and fuel rail spacing which you will need when wiring up your harness, unless you plan on having a plug, then you can wire up the plug and wire up the other end when you figure out what injectors you want. The stock 250cc won't take you very far though. This will also factor in if you need a resistor box or not which will have to wired in inline, best decide that now.

If you have the tools to cut and re-bead charge pipes then really it doesn't matter, you can run a 45* coupler off the throttle body then a 135 to the intercooler. Most supra guys that run that setup actually go down as they have room behind the headlight. We don't have as much of a luxury in that regard. Just something to keep in mind, especially given a non-ebay throttle body for that intake is $3-400, with reports of the ebay style not doing well under boost and vacuum on some runs (warping the throttle blade), made me shy away from them. The real mustang throttle body for that one is ridiculous, and that sizing is really overkill. 

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Honestly I'd look at the flow rate of your turbo and get injectors to match. Each lb/min of flow = 12cc of injector (16cc for e85). This is the easy way to do it. 

Example: 60lb/min of airflow capable turbo.

60x12cc = 720cc injectors

60x16cc = 960cc injectors (e85)

Edited by Geno750

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15 hours ago, jr_soliz2010 said:

well ive made it this far doing my own research. Thanks for the input. 

I mean it seems you got into this "mess" because you did not. While you would hope someone who runs a business would be reliable, a healthy dose of skepticism and independent research would not have put you here. Same thing for this place, while we are more technical, and the amount of information and knowledge here is insanity at times, you really don't know who is giving you advice. Your best line of defense is to do your own research at which point you wouldn't ask "what should I use," you would ask, "of these choices X, Y, and Z what would be the easier, simpler, more accurate, easiest to maintain, etc etc etc." People can chime in with their opinion, maybe offer an option you have not even considered, but walking in blind asking for recommendations is another good way to end up here with a post of "ignition help needed" detailing how you followed someone else's recommendation and are screwed again. 

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If you can have someone do the harness for you then great, otherwise there will be a lot of crimping and it sucks after a while :)

You might also want to start with fuel only. Essentially start with having the old computer and harness inplace and only add what you need for fuel. Once you get that working you can start remove stuff. Also you don't need TPS and all the fancy feature to get going. This is a project where incremental changes will save you a lot of time.

And finally do timing. This is how I did it on my L28. 

If you just start with 10000 things then you don't know what's wrong.

To clarify, don't reuse the old existing hardnes..

Edited by turbogrill

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Actually.. FWIW, that stock nippondenso distributor has all the info you'll need for full seq. It's got 3 vr sensors built in; g1, g2, ne. 4th pin is common ground. You would use g2,ne, and gnd. I can't give the ne wheel any review though, I'm using the 36-2 as my primary input and the g2 for cam input. Not sure what you have for a motor but if you pulled it from a 96-97 you're in luck because it came with the 36-2 on the crank snout as well as the dizzy. Let me know if you need any other info. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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No unfortunately i picked up a 95 non vvti dizzy 2jzge. I was able to connect all the wires to the best of my knowedge and my ecu connects to my laptop. I have 12v to injectors and coils and other sensors 5v. My tps reads backwards. At closed throttle it reads 80 percent open. At WOT it reads close to zero. Tried swapping the wires out and no change. I already contacted softopz. Im wondering, is using the oem harness and a plug and play ecu better? I dont care whether i use a dizzy or coils. Stock injectors or aftermarket. I just wanna drive my car. 300 hp is plenty. THe car has no reinforcements whatsoever but i wanna get this wiring out of the way before moving on to other things. 

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Quite simply if your TPS is reading like that then you have it wired wrong. You just can't swap the wires around willy nilly, because if you swap them wrong you can actually end up with the same output from the TPS with wires in different positions. 

 

Most TPS sensor are 3 wire and they have a 5 Volt reference, a sensor ground ( back to the ECU ) and  a variable TPS output. There are several combinations of wiring that won't work. properly, but only one way of wiring that will work. 

 

TPS wiring also varies by clockwise or counter clockwise rotation. GM and Ford sensors have both rotations and they have different wiring at the connecting plug. 

 

Find a schematic for your particular make and model of TPS sensor. Creative use of Google should find that answer in under 5 minutes. 

 

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Yes you have your TPS wires crossed looking at a 2jz TPS in a FSM will tell you which one is 5vref, ground and output. And you still have to calibrate your TPS signal in tunerstudio.

 

Secondly Having power to coils and injectors means half the battle you are most likely not getting a tach signal (to fire them via MS ground ) or you are getting fuel and spark just not getting it at the right event. Everything revolves around the tach signal .  Which leads me to my next question are you getting a tach signal during cranking in tuner studio RPM gauge? Sorry I pmed you concerning l28et distributor wiring you never mentioned to me in PM what your setup was . Before I make you a harness your problem could be easily done with a bit of research and help here on the forums. If you want me to make a harness thats fine by me to!

 

You sound young we were all at that age and we just wanna get shit done and enjoy the project that feels like its been an eternity already . But seriously slow down, do it right the first time, dont cut corners and research research will go along ways! 

NOW  go download the FSM for your engine, and even the dizzy specifically which engine it came from. TELL us how you wired your distributor.

 

Also simple but overlooked thing always happens your 12v source for CAS input and MS input should have power when cranking! 

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