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Invincibleextremes

Ford Super 8.8 irs swap thread. Rear brakes too

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8 hours ago, ISPKI said:

You said in your initial post that this setup could use the 2002 and up explorer 8.8 by simply using 31 splines instead of 34 on the end of the CV joint. Would it also work for older 8.8s out of explorers? I have an 01 out of a mountaineer that I believe is identical to the 02 explorer 8.8; 3.73 gear, LSD, 31 spline, disc brakes.

I also stated in a later post why I will not be using the explorer 8.8, I'd be more than happy to build you a mount, but it's not something I will be producing full time.

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2 hours ago, jpndave said:

The Super 8.8 certainly shows the most promise of any of the differentials I've seen. Better/stronger/easier mounting points. Stronger all around, easy to pick up a takeout reasonably priced. Good aftermarket support (it's a mustang).  All of this is just going to be better as time marches on since every new mustang uses it. @1969hondaand I are working on a version using these diffs for our cars. We have iron and aluminum cases as well as limited slip and torsion centers. We're going all out on suspension/hubs/brakes with A-arm suspension rather than struts but mounting up the center will be a commonality no matter what is done outside that. We also have a complete Mustang sub-frame (he does) for reference and have toyed with using as many of the parts possible. I'm using aluminum center, Torsen T2, 3.73 as it matches up to my T56 Magnum ratios and Voodoo power range. @1969honda Is iron center, limited slip and 3.15 or 3.31 to better match his setup, more bottom power, less stratosphere RPM, different T56 ratios.

 

One additional positive not mentioned is that with mustang parts even if you want upgraded Wilwood or whatever performance  brakes they are readily available. The new stock stuff is no slouch in the performance department. And that's on a mustang, take off 1000-1500 lbs and it just gets better. Once we fixture up, we can share designs or parts as interest dictates. Seems like you are headed in a good direction here. The thing is here on this site we have everything from R180 upgrade to supercar builds. Your universal take should go a long way no matter the direction a particular build is headed and allows upgrades to the outers later as necessary.

 

I agree that welding shafts is a really bad idea. Resplined as a budget starting point up to 930 CV/300M shafts at the top end.

 

Keep up the good work,

 

Dave

Thanks.  Yeah my ideas will be public and in place in a few days.  That's awesome you're building A arms and such, I toyed with the idea of using the entire setup, but there's just too many moving pieces... so I'm sticking to datsun geometry.

 

It may even come to pass that your A arms and my cradles will be the go to for guys with high hp... or it may not, as it's highly unlikely you're going to use the factory r200 mount points...  either way, it's a win win for everyone.

 

The points you bring up about the super 8.8 is exactly what I've been saying about it.  They are hands down better than anything else out there for the money.

 

My reasoning for the 2014 brakes and the 1995 brakes are because im using 2014 fronts and the 1995 is a great option for guys wanting 15 inch rear slicks...  so it's a win win.

 

And yeah, I'm going for knuckles, because of the neon coilovers, and because there's a lot already available in terms of custom control arms and r200 mustache bars.

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Posted (edited)

We have this if you need any reference dimensions. Complete subframe drop. Probably won't be using much of it but it wasn't really any more $ and we can reference the complete assembly for mockup. We're considering the hubs and brakes, tried to get the carriers to work too but I think it will compromise geometry too much for those parts. If we can get the hubs/calipers/rotors to work, ABS might be doable as well. I'm just concerned a bit with the stagger I was planning as it might throw off the ABS computer. We'll see, need to get the house/shop done and get some time to test fit up parts. JD is further along on his rotisserie and that will certainly make it a lot easier. This assembly is his other than the aluminum case as he's using the nodular one for strength. I'm chancing it to save weight and my power will hit differently, not as hard down low, more on top. Fingers crossed I don't regret it. Just need it to hold 500 at the tires.

 

We're planning to tie all the structure together front to back including a mild cage so integrating pickup points for the mounts will be in that plan. Doesn't make for stock bolt in compatibility like your design. If we can retain that we will but I really doubt it. This one doesn't have the upgraded calipers but it does have the vented rotors. The stock A-Arm setup is a little goofy with the extra linkage on it. I think we'll be fabbing that to fit. Center for sure but anything else that's usable is a plus as it is there and paid for.

 

Let me know if I'm hijacking too much here.

 

Mustang Subframe (1).jpg

Mustang Subframe (2).jpg

Edited by jpndave

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Posted (edited)

Here are two views of the nodular diff from my build thread here even though I'm using the aluminum case, they look the same. Need to update the photos. I have opened up the case to look at the Torsen and Limited slip. I'll try and get photos of both versions.

 

Does this help to see why Invincibleextremes is so stoked about the prospect? Look at the strength of the pickup points and the just the ease of mounting the thing in there. Plus it's stronger case and internals, across the board. Factory and aftermarket support is great as every new body style Mustang gets it in one form or another. Aluminum behind the automatic smaller engine cars, Nodular in the upper models, Torsen in the race package and limited slip as far as I know it across the board unless it gets the Torsen T2.

 

Nodular Diff (2).jpg

Nodular Diff (1).jpg

Edited by jpndave

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Yeah I was really tempted to do a complete subframe, but the 64 inch track width didn't appeal to me, plus it would only solve the issue of a monster diff in my car, not the masses...  ;-)

 

And because I have a youtube channel, and there's a MASSIVE hole in the market for affordable differential solutions and coilover and disc brakes I figured bringing some to market was a no brainer.

 

Btw, if you could give me the outer dimensions of the front diff mount bushings I would be greatful.  I don't have any on hand but I plan in using them in a different location to isolate the diff.  The factory 4 holes are all going to be hard mount, and the bushings will be on the mustache bar and on the very front.  I'm detaching the very front bit from the rest of the cradle, and using bushings between the two parts.

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22 hours ago, Invincibleextremes said:

I also stated in a later post why I will not be using the explorer 8.8, I'd be more than happy to build you a mount, but it's not something I will be producing full time.

Oh, i didnt see where you posted that. I will likely build my own mount specific to my setup but im still interested in your process and how you are designing your custom knuckle.

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Most likely mig, it'll be steel, 1/2 inch on some parts, 1 inch on others, then all drilled using a jig and then welded together using another jig.  The bolt on hub will add strength as well.

I have no idea on what you'll be using for a bolt on hub, since the explorers use a press in bearing, but I would gladly sell you a pair of knuckles that you can drill for your own hub of choice or just use 2015 mustang hubs like I am.  Also, the drive line shop has 930 axles for both the explorer 31 spline and the 2015 mustang 34 spline, so getting axles to use 2015 mustang hubs and the explorer diff is an off the shelf combo that they will gladly sell you.

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Made lots of progress today.  Tomorrow I'm going to finish up the dog leg on the uprights and the spindle pin sleave and reinstall the control arms on the rear so I can see where the camber comes out to under load and make changes from there.

 

2015 rear hub, and 2014 mustang brakes.  Still plenty to do, and I need to finish the diff cradle as well.

IMG_20180516_231806_290.jpg

IMG_20180516_230705_948.jpg

IMG_20180516_230542_937.jpg

IMG_20180516_230207_574.jpg

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Looking good, I like the options this opens up.  One question, did you look into putting sn97 cobra bearings & hubs into the factory Datsun struts? They are very close in outside diameter & it may be easier than making a whole new upright.

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I looked into it for all of 3 seconds.  It wasn't a viable option.

 

The uprights are going to cost 400 for the pair, and this in turn allows the use of much cheaper 2004 srt4 coilovers and which in turn also allows cheap disc brakes to bolt on. And that's just in the rear. Up front the coilovers and spindles allow for extremely cheap 5 lug disc brakes, and coilovers and also open up the setup for proper geometry using Subaru wrx non sti steering racks, which were otherwise too wide at the pivot points for stock 240z geometry.

 

This allows two things....  near bolt on power steering, and affordable right hand drive conversions for guys like me who just feel like doing that.

 

So many wins on so many levels it's just mind blowing.

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On 5/19/2018 at 9:28 PM, caperix said:

Looking good, I like the options this opens up.  One question, did you look into putting sn97 cobra bearings & hubs into the factory Datsun struts? They are very close in outside diameter & it may be easier than making a whole new upright.

That is something that I was wondering as well, although I was looking into how to adapt the datsun hub assy to accept a cv spline shaft. That may be better for some of our applications, but this build seems more universally useful.

 

What did you use to attached the bottom of the knuckle to the control arm? Is it just a threaded rod or is there more to it that isnt visible?

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On 5/24/2018 at 7:50 AM, neruve said:

What kind of price are you thinking for the knuckles and cradle when you are finished prototyping?

Well here's what I'm thinking, if I get all the bits, laser cut, tack them together using a jig I'll built so each piece is the same, and then have them professionally welded (Not by me)  I'm looking at around 200 per upright and ballpark 500 for a complete cradle set up to use the factory 2015 mustang bushings.

 

Now, but I can probably do drastically better than that for just a tacked together setup for the guys who trust their own welding...  or want to have them welded by a friend of theirs etc.  I can tack it all up in the jig and ship it out.

 

Not 100% sure yet as I'm not sure on the amount of work it'll take, and the expenses of producing it all, but that's the idea.

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1 hour ago, Invincibleextremes said:

Well here's what I'm thinking, if I get all the bits, laser cut, tack them together using a jig I'll built so each piece is the same, and then have them professionally welded (Not by me)  I'm looking at around 200 per upright and ballpark 500 for a complete cradle set up to use the factory 2015 mustang bushings.

 

Now, but I can probably do drastically better than that for just a tacked together setup for the guys who trust their own welding...  or want to have them welded by a friend of theirs etc.  I can tack it all up in the jig and ship it out.

 

Not 100% sure yet as I'm not sure on the amount of work it'll take, and the expenses of producing it all, but that's the idea.

Well, mad props to you for trying to keep it affordable! The tacked kit would be awesome for your budget people like myself. I have several friends with TIGs. I'll definitely keep my eye on this thread. What are you using for the front setup. I have often though about just putting an SN95 strut/spindle in the front for 13" corbra brakes cheap. Just haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

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10 hours ago, neruve said:

Well, mad props to you for trying to keep it affordable! The tacked kit would be awesome for your budget people like myself. I have several friends with TIGs. I'll definitely keep my eye on this thread. What are you using for the front setup. I have often though about just putting an SN95 strut/spindle in the front for 13" corbra brakes cheap. Just haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

I have a thread in the braking forum about the front, but I'm using 2014 mustang spindles mounted on 2004 srt4 coilovers...

 

The srt4 coilovers are being used front and back, and the 2014 mustang brakes are being used front and back, and the diff hubs and axles are 2015 mustang.

 

I'm sure guys like you really appreciate the systems being complete off one car, not mismatched like prior offerings using custom struts and other budget blowing things.

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6 minutes ago, clarkspeed said:

I like your approach. Very interesting selection of parts. I also looked at using the Mustang stuff, but never got around to test fitting parts. 

Just doing what I can. I spent today trying to get my hands on a z32 turbo stub axle so I can compare the 2015 mustang splined.  Both the 2015 mustang and the z32 turbo are 32 spline 22.8 mm on the bolt on cv splines outside.  Just don't know if they work together without getting my hands on one.

 

The 2000 dodge intrepid is the same bore in the backing plate, so you could use that too if you wanted to go bigger with 33 spline cv axle ends that go into 28 spline 930 shafts via the f150 front cv... But you'd be splitting hairs at that point, as getting custom 2,000 hp 2015 mustang axles isn't that expensive for how strong they are...

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Did you look into the effects on the scrub radius of using the front knuckles?

 

Also, wonder if we could also figure out just a diff swap option:

1) use the cradle you're making

2) Perhaps we could have mustang axle just shortened and resplined on one end for the 930 CV. Then 930 to stock stock datsun companions are readily available.

https://zcardepot.com/billet-aluminum-axle-adaptors-930-cv-240z-260z-280z.html

3) Driveshaft adapter as you've shown.

 

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11 minutes ago, mtnickel said:

Did you look into the effects on the scrub radius of using the front knuckles?

 

Also, wonder if we could also figure out just a diff swap option:

1) use the cradle you're making

2) Perhaps we could have mustang axle just shortened and resplined on one end for the 930 CV. Then 930 to stock stock datsun companions are readily available.

https://zcardepot.com/billet-aluminum-axle-adaptors-930-cv-240z-260z-280z.html

3) Driveshaft adapter as you've shown.

 

Front geometry stays stock aside from it being a 2 inch drop, which helps with the bump steer.  But requires a wider rack to completely do away with bump steer... Which opens up the possibility of using a wrx rack which is near bolt on anyway.

 

Yeah, is is very possible to use just the cradle and either use techno toy tuning uprights with z32 hubs and brakes, or 240sx hubs and brakes tonstay 4 lug or anything else along those lines.

 

But you would be shooting yourself in the foot at that that point...

The use of cv axles for $75 each and getting them cut down at $75 each and then using 2014 mustang brakes at $150 or less and paying $150 for some 2015 bolt on hubs is the cheaper, stronger way to go....

 

Not to mention srt4 struts are $80 each brand new, and springs are $40 a piece to set them up for whatever weight and balance your car happens to be...

 

Like I said, you could do a lot of things, no reason you couldnt, just have to decide on what you want and how much it will all cost you.

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True enough. Going to all the work, may as well gain all the other benefits for not much more. 

 

So the ackerman is the same too? Interesting considering the different wheel base. Steering ratio not changed either (ie steering arm is same length?)

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