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5 lug, 4 wheel big disc brake, and coilovers for pennies using 2014 mustang spindle and brakes

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After looking everything over and doing some digging I came to the conclusion that using 65 mustang hubs on 240z spindles is not a cost effective solution for big brakes.  

 

I am now looking into a ball joint adapter that bolts to the control arm of the 204z and uses press in 2014 mustang ball joints.

 

I intend to use this in conjunction with 2004 Subaru wrx coil over struts to allow the use of 5 lug 2014 mustang hubs and brakes. Which are 5x114.3

The intent is to have the outer wheel mount flange be pushed out roughly 35mm.... effectively converting our cars from a "zero offset" wheel to a "plus 35mm" wheel... aka just like the 300z and the 240sx, Toyota supra etc...

 

It's a front steer, rear caliper spindle just like the stock 240z, once I know what the bump steer geometry will be I will have a clearer picture of things.

 

Someone could use a widebody or flared setup if they chose to run a zero offset wheel, or use cheap and readily available 350z wheels and have stock track width.

 

Let me know if anyone has any input on this.  Good idea, bad, etc...

Edited by Invincibleextremes
Clarifying topic
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Just spit balling here but, if you are set on using the front Z control arms and tie rods, (and provided pushing the lower ball joint out farther doesn't totally screw up the suspension geometry) would it be possible to machine a steel adapter plate to mount on the stock Z lower control arm in place of the ball joint? Have one end machined with the stick four bolt pattern and the outboard end machined to accept screw in type ball joint? That would allow a really beefy, early 2" Chrysler ball joint (K727 IIRC) like a lot of domestic road course and circle track guys use? They can be found in almost every parts store for a decent price. Howe/Coleman/AFCO and several others all have offerings of that joint in different racing materials and configurations.

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Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking.  A small adapter with 5 holes... 4 for the control arm, and one for the 2014 mustang ball joint.

 

Not looking to push the ball joint out ... that would create camber.  I plan on bolting a 2014 mustang spindle on with a 2004 Subaru coil over strut in the exact 240z factory locations.

 

I just have a feeling that the wheel mounting surface on a 2014 mustang is out farther from the ball joint pivot point than it is on a 240z.  I know  this because mustangs use a 35mm or 42mm positive offset wheel...

 

Factory steering on any car always places the center of steering directly in the middle of a tire... ALWAYS.  Either with a positive offset wheel or by being very shallow on the spindle like the 240z is.

 

I have one question.  Why the Chrysler ball joint?  What suspension bolts up to it?

Edited by Invincibleextremes

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The other thing you may look into (I'm still researching and learning chassis and suspension design) is something like the modular ball joint rings?  Possibly hook the stock tension rods in to one side and make a new lower control arm off of the threaded stud? Use a something like below but have one side go to the stock control arm mount and then run the clevis side back to the tension rod?

  Related imagehttps://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-94000

The link below also has something similar that the miata guys use?

 

http://www.kineticvehicles.com/ControlArms.html

Edited by 1969honda

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If you are going to do a real upgrade then it should include a larger diameter hollow stub axle. I believe that S chassis Nissans have this and of course there is a ship load of aftermarket parts out there for them. Including bigger brakes from the Z32 conversion up. S14/15 are best.

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Well you asked for comments, guess I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish other than to convert to a five stud big brake setup. These days if there is already something available off the shelf then I don't try to reinvent the wheel, the amount and variety of S chassis suspension gear available is almost infinite and staying all Nissan has it's plus too.

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For example... the cheapest coilover setup is 900 bucks and requires welding...  or you can use bolt struts from a different platform...

 

I'm trying to use the super 8.8 off a 2015 mustang...   bolt on factory brakes on the rear, hubs etc... 40 bucks for a hub sure beats 800 for stub axles and then another 600 for companion flanges.

 

The s30 platform market is saturated, very true.  But it's saturated with severely overpriced junk.

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Ok, but what you're talking about doing is creating this

zrec198a9079.jpg?itok=0hTXBssm

 

The only difference is you want to use WRX coilovers and a Mustang diff.

 

While you may think it is overpriced, they've already done all the engineering work to make sure it's going to fit correctly, and also do all the manufacturing of the custom parts as well.

 

I've no doubt that you could create something for yourself for cheaper, but you're still going to have to design all those parts, and then create them, and that will take a lot of time and money and access to tools that the vast majority of people don't have. If you were to sell these parts, I'd expect you'd be charging similar margins for them as well, because people WILL pay it.

 

I'm excited for you to bring something new to the market, but you don't have to crap on other companies work.

 

 

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Been busy.  Anyways, did a ton of measuring.  First off, steering knuckle to ball joint distance is the same.  So geometry remains the same in that regards.  Secondly, the tie rod ends have the same taper BUT the mustang ones are bigger and stronger.  The solution is to use techno toy tuning 5/8 adjustable outer tie rods.  The mustang spindle can be drilled for 5/8 with the provided drill bit.  Or do what I'm planning on doing, and fab up the mustang inner tie rod together with the datsun inner, and use mustang outer tie rods, and not drill the spindles.

 

 

The other all important question is wheel flange to ball joint dimensions, and they are spot on.  My original thought was they were kicked out about an inch.  I was wrong.

 

You will need to use zero offset wheels with this setup.  Or negative if you want to run really wide track.

 

You can use 11.5 inch brakes and run 16 inch wheels.  Or be like me, and use 13.2 inch brakes with 17 inch wheels.

 

The strut mounts don't line up, but are 1/2 wider than the mustang spindle.  The solution I have come up with is to use 1/4 inch plates to adapter the mounting pattern to the mustang spindle bolt locations.  Two plates per strut.

 

 

All in all my cost for this has been less than the cost of a pair of 5 lug hubs.  So yeah, this is a no brainer when it comes to choice for me.

IMG_20180113_214709_590.jpg

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Parts breakdown.

 

2004 dodge neon srt4 coilovers.  --- I bought mine for $180

2014 mustang spindles ---- $100 a pair, all day.

2014 mustang brakes.--- $100 to $300 a set, easily found.  Mine were $150...

 

What's needed to make them all work together is two 1/4 plates with 3 holes each and a welder per spindle.

 

And a hybrid 240z lower control arm that uses a mustang ball joint.

 

In my case I'm just welding a mustang control arm stub to the 240z one.

Edited by Invincibleextremes

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This isnt something thats really marketable btw, just an idea people can use for themselves....  I may have the 1/4 inch strut adapter shims laser cut and sold for $60 for the 4 of them to make it easier for people to do this, but this is honestly something anyone with a welder can do themselves.

Monday I'll go grab some 1/4 inch plate steel and bolt it all together, and show you guys what's needed to make the dodge neon coilover bolt to the mustang spindle.

 

Once I have wheels and tires, which I can't afford at the moment, I'll be bolting this up to the front of my datsun and posting pics. And videos.  And later down the road I'll have my rear set up designed and built.

 

The rear will require me to design a custom knuckle with neon coilover mounts and be set up for the 2015 mustang irs hubs while using 2014 mustang brakes (so braking stays matched to the 2014 fronts).

 

So for a few months I'll have 5 lug front set up with 4 lug rears untill I have the rear to bolt in.

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To each their own and if someone comes up with something that satisfies their requirements DIY then good, relying on off the shelf solutions  is becoming a habit and is not what this forum should be about.

 

All I'm trying to do is to recommend a better starting point, to put it practically wide front wheels requiring zero off set put a lot of leveraged load on the stub axles which then are likely to flex and throw the suspension alignments out under heavy cornering. But if that is not relevant to the OP's use then ignore.

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Almost done setting up the front with 13.2 inch brakes and 17x9.5 wheels with 4 inch backspace.

 

Going to use techno toy tuning 5/8 tie rod ends.  And still need to clean up the caliper where it touches the wheels (wouldnt be an issue if i ised 12.4 inch brakes) and fab up the 2014 mustang ball joint to the control arm.

 

Using the 240z isolator was easy, worked out pretty good.

IMG_20180510_214907_582.jpg

IMG_20180510_214252_170.jpg

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Splicing in a 2014 mustang ball joint pocket was a piece of cake.  It all came together no problems.  Using the factory srt4 bottom strut hole and placing the top of the mustang spindle against the strut when drilling the upper hole sets it up with the perfect camber at ride height.  Just a touch negative.  My only concern is the strut and ball joint are no longer in line with each other.  It's close, but the strut is inboard by 1 inch on this setup.  I'll be paying close attention to it to see if this affects the shock any.  It's not as drastic as the factory rear suspension. But I'll still be looking into what can possibly be done about this...

IMG_20180511_193117_962.jpg

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