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Jboogsthethug

4 speed manual will only shift into "top" gears (1,3), will not go into 2nd, 4th, or reverse.

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Hi all,

 

So I just fired up my 71 after working on the car for the past few years. The engine and tranny sat during all that time, but previous to that, the tranny had no problems at all.

 

after taking it for a test spin, I've realized all the gears on the bottom of the shifter (2nd, 4th, and reverse) Are impossible to get into, and though I can shift into 1st, once I shift into 3rd it usually gets stuck in that gear. 

 

After some internet digging I've found a case of what sounds to be the same issue (

) though his final update isn't a whole lot of help "Well, I eventually took it to a guy who knows a lot more about transmissions, who took it out the car and found it was some pin or something attached to an arm that broke. Ended up being really minor, thankfully. Car is back on the road :)"

 

After looking at the fsm, page 8 (attached), I'm assuming one of the pins on the diagram the FSM owner circled is the pin he is referring to, though I'm not sure. My other guess is the return spring plug (#5 on the diagram) though that is a complete guess based off of what I've read online. 

 

I'm curious if anyone has experienced this and would know of the likely culprit. Like I say, it was 100% when I removed it, and isn't fine now. I've bled the clutch and the slave is working as it is supposed to as far as I can tell. Any help is appreciated, thank you!

TM Transmission.pdf

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Does the sticking only happen while you're driving, or does it happen while the car is sitting too? Do you feel anything strange about the clutch?

 

I've repaired to slightly similar things on my first car and the Datsun, but nothing quite the same. Datsun was going into gear when it was off, but I couldn't get it to shift at all once it was on, and I couldn't put it out of neutral once it was running. I think the issue was a seized throwout bearing. Not necessarily the best way to go about it, but I fixed this by raising the back end and starting it in gear. Engine has a lot more power than I do so the bearing came loose and I was able to shift freely after that. 

 

This seems to be a more common issue on FWD cars. It's an issue with the linkages not working properly or not being properly connected.

Edited by Zetsaz

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9 hours ago, Zetsaz said:

Does the sticking only happen while you're driving, or does it happen while the car is sitting too? Do you feel anything strange about the clutch?

 

I've repaired to slightly similar things on my first car and the Datsun, but nothing quite the same. Datsun was going into gear when it was off, but I couldn't get it to shift at all once it was on, and I couldn't put it out of neutral once it was running. I think the issue was a seized throwout bearing. Not necessarily the best way to go about it, but I fixed this by raising the back end and starting it in gear. Engine has a lot more power than I do so the bearing came loose and I was able to shift freely after that. 

 

This seems to be a more common issue on FWD cars. It's an issue with the linkages not working properly or not being properly connected.

So it is sticking at any time, but it seems if I let it sit for a bit with it stuck in 3rd, turned off, then go to shift a few hours later, it will shift out easily. Not sure exactly what's going on. The clutch seems fine, I expected it to be harder to push but it is engaging the slave cylinder, and I am having no problems starting in gear with the clutch engaged.

 

and Interesting. I did drain it when i removed the engine/tranny, then let it sit for 2 years basically with no new oil in it. That could be the case?

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I'm sure someone more experienced can chime in. What you're experiencing sounds slightly different than what I had to fix and I'm not sure I can think of much off the top of my head that would cause that problem. I would check that the pin that that guy in the other thread has circled is a proper pin and wasn't replaced by a random bolt. It should have an E clip on one side if I'm remembering correctly. I would also double check the pin that holds the shift lever in place. A good idea to replace the shifter bushing while you're there if you haven't already. Super easy based on the Atlantic Z writeup. If it's neither of those things then the problem might be internal like the selector fork being broken.

 

Similar problem to yours but I'm not sure they found the solution: http://forums.nicoclub.com/transmission-stuck-in-first-gear-but-shifter-is-in-neutral-t602912.html

 

Helpful insights into other possible solutions/causes though.

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18 hours ago, Zetsaz said:

I'm sure someone more experienced can chime in. What you're experiencing sounds slightly different than what I had to fix and I'm not sure I can think of much off the top of my head that would cause that problem. I would check that the pin that that guy in the other thread has circled is a proper pin and wasn't replaced by a random bolt. It should have an E clip on one side if I'm remembering correctly. I would also double check the pin that holds the shift lever in place. A good idea to replace the shifter bushing while you're there if you haven't already. Super easy based on the Atlantic Z writeup. If it's neither of those things then the problem might be internal like the selector fork being broken.

 

Similar problem to yours but I'm not sure they found the solution: http://forums.nicoclub.com/transmission-stuck-in-first-gear-but-shifter-is-in-neutral-t602912.html

 

Helpful insights into other possible solutions/causes though.

I'll double check the clip btu If I remember correctly it is the right pin. and (Ignore the caps lock haha) I ACTUALLY just REPLACED THE BUSING TO MAKE SURE THAT WASN'T IT EITHER, SO NO GO THERE. BUT THERE IS DEFINITELY A TON OF WIGGLE ROOM THAT HE talks about in the link you posted, my shifter will go left to right the entire width of the shifter hole. At least that's how it was before I changed the busing, it's a little less now but still a lot. That once again points it to that shifter limiter thing. I'll double check that and if that isn't the case I'll look into the fork. Bummer haha! 

Edited by Jboogsthethug

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Now, on your transmission does your shifter slide in and out, like on the video in the first link I posted? Or does yours stay in place? Mine is coming out like a piston and I've wondered if it is indeed a pin missing that is supposed to stop that from backing out like it is, which would make sense why I can't even touch the 2nd, 4th, and reverse gears. I can;t even grind the gears, it's not engaging at all when I am able to shift into the area they're supposed to be.

 

This piece, I've attached the picture showing the place where it slides in and out inside the circle, the arrows demonstrate it's movement.

DSCN4615.JPG

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This is mine. Same area you're pointing to. It's almost all the way in. The pin on yours on the front side is out in that picture. That piece shouldn't move in and out. Should only go side to side.

Edited by Zetsaz

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On 1/19/2018 at 5:23 PM, winstonusmc said:

That's not right. It shouldn't come out like that.

 

21 hours ago, Zetsaz said:

 

 

This is mine. Same area you're pointing to. It's almost all the way in. The pin on yours on the front side is out in that picture. That piece shouldn't move in and out. Should only go side to side.

Ok this is definitely narrowing it down! Thank you so much for the info. Is this what you're talking about?

 

 

assuming that's what you mean, I'll have to look into that and see if I can find that particular piece online. if not, I suppose I'll buy a new transmission! I'll keep you updated.

IMG_9978 copy.jpg

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On 1/21/2018 at 1:36 PM, 1969honda said:

Dang, I gave away a four speed to a guy in millville last summer.  If needed I can try and track him down for you.

No Worries man! I wasn;t sure if you'd need a specific pin but if what NewZed is saying is correct then I'll be all set! 

 

On 1/21/2018 at 2:25 PM, NewZed said:

Pretty sure it's just a round pin that locks the striker rod in place.  Any hardware might have one that will work.  Length is not too important either.

Thanks a bunch dude! I had read online somewhere it had to be a specific pin, but I may have been reading about a different part. I'll keep you upadted on my findings when I get around to tearing the tranny out again, or at least dropping it to work on under the car if I can.

 

17 hours ago, Zetsaz said:

That should be it

Thanks for all your help good sir! I appreciate it!

 

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