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theczechone

Ignition Control Options

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So i know there is an ignition specific forum but i feel that this page is more frequently visited. 

I have recently upgraded my 240z to tripple mikunis and also i am building a second motor with a stroker crank and other goodies.  

The one area i am not too sure of is ignition.  Currently my car is equipped with the ZX distributor and it seems to work well enough but with my new motor i presume that i would need to recurve the dizzy? To be honest I'm not sure how to even specify what i need there.

The other options i've heard of were the 

1.  123distributors - programmable distributor $586 - easy to program/tune , looks factory, good reviews 

2. LS Coils? - individual coil setup but what can i use to control it? expensive after all set and done? 

3. others ? 

 

thanks for your help

Edited by theczechone

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55 minutes ago, theczechone said:

 

So i know there is an ignition specific forum but i feel that this page is more frequently visited. 

I have recently upgraded my 240z to tripple mikunis and also i am building a second motor with a stroker crank and other goodies.  

The one area i am not too sure of is ignition.  Currently my car is equipped with the ZX distributor and it seems to work well enough but with my new motor i presume that i would need to recurve the dizzy? To be honest I'm not sure how to even specify what i need there.

The other options i've heard of were the 

1.  123distributors - programmable distributor $500 - easy to program/tune , looks factory, good reviews 

2. LS Coils? - individual coil setup but what can i use to control it? expensive after all set and done? 

3. others ? 

 

thanks for your help

 

VW wasted spark coils are cheaper than LS coils, works the same with being logic coils. Probably lees oomph but not sure if it matters on NA builds, still 100x better than Zx dissy.

 

I assume your new engine will be carbs?

 

To trigger coils you need:

- triggerwheel on damper

- some bracket with sensor

- computer, megajolt or ms2

 

Not sure what coils megajolt works with, think its common with the ford EDIS

 

 

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47 minutes ago, theczechone said:

I like the megajolt option.

For cost: 

Megajolt - 200 

Coils - 100 would like to use to CoP version (already have the bracket) 

EDIS Module - 50

Trigger Wheel Bracket - 200 (Hoke)

Sensor - $40 (DIY Autotune)

 

total:  $590

 

I have never used Megajolt but have some of their other stuff (Racecapture pro) and I am happy. Support is pretty good and it seems to be high quality with expensive high quality components and designs. I found there software being a little behind their HW, it still works but you can tell Steve Jobs didn't design it.

 

What CoP coils are these?

 

edit:

I find it annoying that there aren't any cheaper trigger wheel brackets. $200 bucks is a lot (I am sure it has to do with low volume, but still).

 

 

Edited by turbogrill

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13 minutes ago, theczechone said:

I guess there is another option 

https://www.cbperformance.com/CB-s-Black-Box-Programmable-Timing-Control-Module-p/2013.htm

 

Cost: $200 

Use stock coil and distributor (locked out) 

 

Provides a full surface for tuning.  

this looks promising and cheap.. 

 

I guess that this will not give you the accuracy of a trigger wheel. At higher RPM the dizzy is a bit inaccurate, at least so I heard. Never have any hands one experience with dizzy and high RPMs. Take a timing light when you run at 5000 RPM, it jumps all over the place. Not sure if that is the timing light being in accurate.

 

 

But probably much better than just the dizzy. Do you plan on dyno tune it?

 

Mine is a track car so it lives in high RPM and high heat, so good timing control is important. For a street car with less high RPM usage it might matterless. What RPMs do you see?

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I wouldn't define my car as a track car that stays at high engine speeds for extended periods of time. I do want to do some track days but mainly it's going to be a street car. 

 

The timing light jumping could just be due to the induction clamp signal,  distributors have been in use for a long time even on hondas that revved beyond 8k rpm  so i wouldn't think it's an issue. 

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On 12/3/2018 at 8:04 PM, theczechone said:

I guess there is another option 

https://www.cbperformance.com/CB-s-Black-Box-Programmable-Timing-Control-Module-p/2013.htm

 

Cost: $200 

Use stock coil and distributor (locked out) 

 

Provides a full surface for tuning.  

this looks promising and cheap.. 

My pops pulled the trigger on one of these for his 66 Fairlane with a 390. I will likely end up setting it up and ultimately tune it for him. Pending my experience and his results I will likely purchase one for my soon to be force fed, Mikuni bike carb powered L20B that is in my daily driver. The bike carb conversion has eliminated the ported vacuum so I’m currently running without vacuum advance. 

The CB Black Box has proven to be the most economical solution to digital timing control that I could find. As far as the timing variation is concerned, I will measure it on my dads car when it’s installed. I haven’t measured but I believe the V8 is going to be the most limited by the amount of timing advance I can dial in before arcing across to another post. I will say though, CBPerformance is currently powering high horsepower(300hp+) NA air cooled engines with this setup so it should do all that we need for a relatively mild 390 and little ole’ L20B.

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Hi Lowrider, I will be looking for your results with the CB Performance Black Box. I got one sent downunder to Australia to use on a 240z. The original dizzy was stuffed so I found a good points Hitachi dizzy and locked it up internally and disconnected the broken vacuum diaphragm. The points were removed and replaced with a Hot Spark ignition module.(Similar to Pertronic). I have stalled on the project, so it will be a while before I can complete my setup.

The price was good , and I liked the flexibility of the advance curve plus the use of vacuum advance all electronically.

David.

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I've got a megajolt setup on mine and I love it a lot!

It has been on my L28 for 5 years without any flows.

When it comes to cost, everything including, I came up with a cost of nearly $1000. All the bits and small parts required make the bill bigger than expected ;)

 

Besides benefit of tuning timing for HP, with TPS or MAP control, you will be able to get proper timing at idle and low rpm. Results would be better driveability/smoothness, better low end torque, lower fuel consumption in addition to higher torque and HP.

 

Here's a how-to I've made several years ago ;)

Edited by Lazeum

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On 12/5/2018 at 8:08 AM, theczechone said:

@lowrider @Enzo250gto

 

Guys, a bit of bad news on the CB black box, i will dig down a bit deaper

 

image.thumb.png.a0d37bd449d0ffb625146971503a1fb3.png

@theczechone, I would be curious if this was using the stock inductive type dizzy or a points type. If I remember correctly (I don't want to spread misinformation) the 260Z dizzy had two inductive pickups, if that were the case I could see where that might cause problems. I would be interested in what you find digging deeper.

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@lowrider I had similar thoughts, but if he had tried 3 or 4 different distributors I would assume he tried different types as well. i think my ZX dizzy should work well. I had also asked if he considered using this with an optical trigger such as the Crane/FAST xr700 but no response yet. Will update as i get more info.   

Edited by theczechone

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18 hours ago, Lazeum said:

I've got a megajolt setup on mine and I love it a lot!

It has been on my L28 for 5 years without any flows.

When it comes to cost, everything including, I came up with a cost of nearly $1000. All the bits and small parts required make the bill bigger than expected ;)

 

Besides benefit of tuning timing for HP, with TPS or MAP control, you will be able to get proper timing at idle and low rpm. Results would be better driveability/smoothness, better low end torque, lower fuel consumption in addition to higher torque and HP.

 

Here's a how-to I've made several years ago ;)

 

Did you make that mount?

 

 

Looks very nice, did you cad something and then used someones CNC machione?

 

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