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Borg Warner T5 recommended fluid????????


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#1 jgkurz

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Posted 07 May 2003 - 09:12 AM

Hi all, What is your experience with ATF or gear oil in the 1983 Borg Warner T-5 transmission? I believe the service manual recommends ATF, but what brands or type should I purchase? I'm a fan of synthetic so I'll probably go that route.

I've heard of people running gear oil in the T-5. Is that a better choice?

I am on the street 75% of the time and the track 25%.

Thanks!

#2 SleeperZ

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Posted 07 May 2003 - 09:49 AM

The Nissan owners manual recommends 80-90 weight gear oil for manual trannies, although there is no mention of a manual different than the Nissan for a turbo model (T5 is not mentioned anywhere). Personally I've used gear oil in mine, and it works fine. I just switched to Redline 75W90NS, and it is good too. IMHO, ATF really SUCKS for lubrication ability, is just way too thin for a gear lubricant. I've also heard the ATF for a T5 is really just for the World Class T5 that has a unique sychronizer that gear lube cannot squeeze in to lubricate.

1978 280Z -->  L28ET, MS3, T3/T4 (V1/V2), 440cc injectors, Spearco IC, BW T5

 

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#3 brokebolt

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Posted 07 May 2003 - 07:06 PM

I use a sythetic 85W-90. Many may have issues with that but a tranny is a different animal. The syncros like light oil where the gears like heavy oil. The bearings are fickle too, they don't get any oil if the oil is to heavy and if the oil is too light not enough lubricaiton. Just my $0.02. Mike
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#4 Mike C

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Posted 07 May 2003 - 07:06 PM

The WC T5 has papercone synchros and roller bearings on the speed gears. These tiny rollers need the thin oil for lubrication. They were designed for ATF and work well with it. The non-wc uses brass ring synchros and bushed speed gears. The 80w90 should be fine. Many people run ATF in the older trans, but IME, shifting is smoother with gear lube.
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#5 Guest_greimann_*

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Posted 07 May 2003 - 07:17 PM

This subject surfaces from time to time, and as the self appointed HybridZ tribologist (lubrication professional), I decided to do some research and see if we can put some science and logic to the myth and rumor. Granted that my information comes some from the web and some from transmission rebuilders, but all seem to be credible sources.

Known facts:

W/C T5's have needle bearings under gears #1, 2, &3.
Non W/C T5's do not have needle bearings.
The lubricant required for W/C/ T5's is automatic transmission fluid (ATF).
W/C T5's were introduced in the 1985 Ford model year and 1987 Chevy model year.
The most important feature of any lubricating fluid is the viscosity.
Lubricants are specified to provide the longest service life of the gear box as a system. This includes gears, bearings, synchros and seals. Failure of any one of these components is considered a failure of the entire system.

Supported facts through research, expert testimony and sound lubrication principles:

The reason that ATF if specified for W/C gear boxes is to ensure a long service life of the needle bearings - the most likely component to cause a system failure.
The needle bearings have small passages that make them sensitive to lubricant viscosity.
Small diameter cylindrical rolling elements that operate at high speed need a low viscosity fluid compared with the larger diameter rolling elements such as ball bearings.
Automotive transmissions rarely fail due to the gear teeth wearing out from improper lubrication. It is usually a bearing failure.

Conclusion:

Since non W/C T5's did not have needle bearings, it is assumed that they should use API GL 4 or 5 (75W-90 or 85W-90) gear oil.

W/C T5's must use ATF.

Sources:

My transmission rebuilder guy
http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html
http://www.mustanggt.org/gttranny.htm
http://www.moderndri.../t5_history.htm


#6 jgkurz

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Posted 07 May 2003 - 08:10 PM

You folks are amazing!!! :hail: Thanks for all the info. I will probably run AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 75W-90 Gear Lube in my 1983 280ZXT T-5.

#7 SleeperZ

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Posted 07 May 2003 - 08:46 PM

Yeah, nice job with the explanations. I'm lucky I was first in answering that one, or I obviously would not have posted at all ;)

1978 280Z -->  L28ET, MS3, T3/T4 (V1/V2), 440cc injectors, Spearco IC, BW T5

 

Otherwise all stock.


#8 randy 77zt

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:39 PM

try redline mtl-pours a little thicker than atf but rated at 75-90.i run it in my 82 na trans and friends have used it in 5.0 stang trans.car shifts with a nice feel.

#9 Zerrari GTO

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:39 PM

I've heard several people recommend Redline oil for T5 World Class transmissions but I'm still not sure what type of oil Redline is. Is this ATF, is it gear oil (what viscosity) or something else.

I know Dextron III or Moble 1 ATF is recommended but would like more information on Redline.

Thanks.
Throw me a friken bone...Need the info.
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#10 Mayolives

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 06:09 PM

I drained, what probably was, the original factory transmission gear oil from my 60,000 mile, 82 zxt. The fluid did not appear to be ATF. It appeared to be "normal" gear oil. I replaced it with Redline 75W90NS. My T5 shifts smoothly and is very quiet. I think I made the correct fluid choice.

#11 Zerrari GTO

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 05:47 AM

Mayolives thanks for the information; your T5 is a non-WC so I need to be sure this will work in a WC T5. I pulled it up and the particular Redline you listed, (75W90NS), is GL-5 Gear Oil. Is this the type of redline gear oil everyone is using in their T5 (world class & non world class)?
Throw me a friken bone...Need the info.
Velo Rossa rebody (62' Ferrari GTO Convt) on 78' 280Z platform/327/5spd.

#12 Zerrari GTO

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 05:52 AM

I emailed Bob Hanlon at Halon Motor Sports (T5, Temec transmissions); he said that the ONLY Redline product that could be used in a world class T5 is the Redline ATF called D-4. The Redline gear oil, 75W90NS, will not lubricate the needle bearings in a WC T5.
Throw me a friken bone...Need the info.
Velo Rossa rebody (62' Ferrari GTO Convt) on 78' 280Z platform/327/5spd.

#13 slownrusty

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 06:56 AM

I drained, what probably was, the original factory transmission gear oil from my 60,000 mile, 82 zxt. The fluid did not appear to be ATF. It appeared to be "normal" gear oil. I replaced it with Redline 75W90NS. My T5 shifts smoothly and is very quiet. I think I made the correct fluid choice.


Thats my choice as well.

Yasin
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#14 naviathan

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 07:12 AM

You know, I could have sworn there was an ammendum to the service manual with specs and fluid for the T5 that said to use ATF in it.
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#15 naviathan

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 07:21 AM

I was right! Found it in the bulletin with the manual. Here it is!

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#16 veritech-z

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 07:49 PM

All the T5 literature I've seen has said you should ONLY ever use ATF in it.
-Max


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#17 spork

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 07:03 AM

Well, I think it's been proven over time that gear oil will hold up in these trannys. It's interesting to see the literature tho. I've always run Mobil 1 75-90 synthetic in mine. Not sure I'm about to try the atf since I've had such good luck with mine and the power levels I'm at. Of course, my T-5 is sitting on the ground next to the car now, and the powerlide is sitting on a jack ready to do some fitting in the bellhousing. Anyways, I'd be curious to hear from some guys that have run atf in the T-5.
James Roraback
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#18 AnTmanS130T

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 10:37 AM

I've been running the same World Class T-5 for 2.5 years now. Making 300whp on a dynojet and 255whp on a dynodynamics loaded dyno. When I first put the transmission in I ran ATF for a little and it was always really rough to shift ( I guess the bad synchros and such a thin fluid) I tried Mobil 1 synthetic and since then it has been a lot better.:mrgreen:

#19 naviathan

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 10:51 AM

You know all my standard Z trannies are very hard to shift when cold and use the synthetic 75-90 gear oil in them. Does anyone have any recommendations to smooth cold shifting as I feel like I'm going to tear something up if I don't find a solution.
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#20 Cody 82 ZXT

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:43 PM

I've run both in some of my T-5's. The ATF seems to work well but, I think I like the feel of the Redline MTL better. I once had a issue with with one of them that it would not shift into 2nd when it was real cold. I changed the fuild from no name brand fluid to the Redline and the proublem was solved.
Cody 82ZXT
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