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Nismo SSS LSD carrier

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Does anyone have information on a NISMO SSS LSD carrier...specifically, will it work in an R200 (3.90) out of an 1981 to 1983 280ZX, how does it's performance compare with the clutch type and od viscous units, and what do they cost used in good condition? Please help out a newbie to the site.

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The Nismo unit is a clutch type, which is better and more predictible for all out performance compared to a Viscous LSD. The best price I've ever seen for the LSD carrier (clutch type) is from Jimmy @ http://www.differentials.com for $500 bucks or so. You won't find too many used LSD carriers, just the occassional late '80s ZXT diff. You never know how hammered or worn a used one would be and a rebuild plus cost of purchase would make them more than buying one new. Hope that helps.

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Well, I've never heard of Nissan ever using anything other than the clutch or viscous type before. At any rate, if it is indeed a Torsen and the price is right, it wouldn't be a bad deal. I know that the clutch type is better for autocrossing, as the Torsen & Quaiffe tend to get bad inside wheelspin. For daily driving or strip stuff, it would be better than nothing. With a $500 clutch type option, you have to decide which way you want to go. It should only run about $100 to have a good shop put it in and set the gear lash. Hope that helps.

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I still have yet to determine if what I've got is what you are asking about (Nismo SSS LSD carrier) being it is not a Quaiffe. I do know that the left and right sides are swapped on mine, which caused a bit of a ruckus in the garage the night I was putting my CV joint half shafts back into it after the LSD install. Ended up having to cut the brand new boots off, swapping the differential stubs from each side, and putting new boots on again.

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I called the folks at differentials.com regarding the LSD. They do sell a LSD for the R200, but it will only fit diffs with 12mm bolts not the early R200 diff which uses 10mm. They referred me to Precision who is the manufacturer. They said I would have to have some sleeves made up to use this LSD with 10mm bolts.

 

I emailed Ross at MM regarding bushings. It doesn't sound like he's too interested but he might make some for $80 to $100 per set if there was enough interest.

 

Anybody interested in a group buy? Any machinists out there willing to make some bushing? 12mm outside dia., 10mm inside dia.

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I don't have a drawing. We're basically looking at a 12mm dia round rod with a 10mm hole drilled in it. Pretty simple. I don't know the exact length at this point (I'm guessing 1/2" long or less) without buying the LSD which I'll do if I know I can get bushings made reasonably. Maybe Savage42 can shed some light on the lenght if he's seen one of the Precision LSD's.

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They just have to be the thickness of the case flange, which may be a little less than 1/2". I'd call them back and ask for that measurement and you should be good to go. If someone here can whip some out, that'd be cool, or you should be albe to have a local machine shop to do it.

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I've got a friend who has a funky Nismo LSD that is a gear drive unit, not clutch or VLSD. He says that the side gears have a different spline count than the clutch units. Maybe the same as the VLSD, don't know. I'd find out the spline count of a clutch unit and check and see if it matches the one you're buying.

 

Jon

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Ok guys heres some info,

If the carrier flange is the same as my viscous carrier then you wouldn't wont the spacers to be any longer than 11mm or .425inch (.450in flange thickness)you would also want them to be an interference fit into the carrier or they would rattle.

 

Also Nissan used an R200H or helical in its 200SX S15 6 speed Man.

 

Check with supplier what it is designed to suit as later carriers the ring gear flange is offset to suit the pinion gears used and use the side bearing spacer to offset carrier.

 

S13 11 and 12 toothed pinion suitable as I did for 39/11 3.545

 

S14 S15 12 and 13 toothed pinion which cant be used with early ratios.

 

Skylines that I am still researching have a 37/9 4.111 which may be suitable for 39/10 3.9 and 37/10 3.7 although in R32 with the range of engines they have the following pinions 8,9,11,12,13.

 

If its Helical it should have the same spline size and count as R200V Viscous.

 

So check before you spend money. Neil

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What do the sleeves need to be made of? What finish on OD adn ID, pretty good if you want an interference fit. If you can get some dwgs or even a scetch, I might be able to get some made for you. 80-100 is probably a good rate on them. Makes you wish you had a lathe!

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I keep thinking somewhere out there somebody is making a 12mm OD tube with 10mm ID. I don't think the material is terribly important, neither is a press fit. You don't have to press the normal ring gear bolts through the carrier, after all.

 

If someone could locate that, you could just cut them to length, clean up any burrs, and drop them in.

 

Jon

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somewhere out there somebody is making a 12mm OD tube with 10mm ID

 

DOH! I just remembered, I have some assorted stainless tubes at home, they are all SAE sizes but I think one is .5", could be close enough. I will take some measurements this weekend, but I am pretty scatter brained sometimes so don't get upset at me if I forget. I think it is 304 or 316 SS.

 

We will see....

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Whoever does this first is going to have to buy a stick of tube I'm betting. It would be great if that person would cut up a bunch of these and sell 'em cheap to hybridz guys.

 

Maybe throw an ad in the classified section... I know I've talked to 10 or so people who had a passing interest. Good way to recoup the price of the tube (which shouldn't be terribly expensive anyway).

 

If I do it first I promise to do the above, but I've got other projects going right now.

 

Jon

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Jon,

Thanks for the links! I've been needing to make up some sleeves for my diff. that I put together. I'll call them and find out prices and post here what I find out :wink: Ah nuts... today is Friday, well I'll still call them Saturday, but if they aren't there, then Monday it is.

 

!M!

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Guest Steve-Z

Hey guys, I can make your sleeves. I have a small lathe with collets. I would make the sleeves out of 1/2 in steel with a 0.060 wall thickness with seamless tube. Maybe I can get some 4130 tubing, I'll look in the Coleman catalog.

 

Can you provide me with dimensions: OD, ID and length??? Or should I get the length and diameters from my used R-200 Posi carrier or from one of my R-200 open diff carriers ???? And will the bolt head portion be large enough to cover the 12 mm hole and not get loose, which would destroy the carrier. Or should I make the spacers with a flange to distribute the load ???? And will the 10 MM bolts be long enough to have 15-20 mm of thread engagement ????

 

I guess another dumb question is: will the ring gear be located properly by the OD of the carrier ???? The ring gear is always a very close fit with the carrier, approx. 0.001-0.002 in clearance and maybe closer than that. If this clearance is too much then this swap will need more work or won't work. Does that make sense ????

 

On american cars, sometime a ring gear spacer is sometimes used when vastly different ratios are swapped into an existing diff.

 

Let me know, so I can plan out what I need to do.

 

Steve :lol:

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I'd guess if you weren't too far off the stock ratio, you'd be okay. My Pontiac 8.2" carriers go from about 2.73 to 3.23, then step up to 3.3?-3.73 then another size up to 3.90-4.11. The 8.5" carrier made for 2.73-3.23 can take a spacer to fit any gear.

 

The clutch style might go to 4.11 without a spacer--that's been done already hasn't it? I'm going with an auto so I MIGHT go with a 4.11 or so. For my taste, the 3.7 was too much gear for the T5 borg until 3rd gear.

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EDIT-opie, you are confusing two entirely different things. American cars have "carrier breaks" where you use one carrier for 2.73-3.54 gears, and a different carrier for 3.73 - 4.11, as an example.

 

A ring gear spacer sits between the ring gear and the carrier so that you can use a 4.11 gear on a 2.73 carrier, for instance. Nissans just have thicker and thicker ring gears the lower the gear ratio, and AFAIK there is never a need to change the carrier when changing gear ratios.

 

IMO ring gear spacers (not bolt spacers, but ring gear spacers) are a bad idea. The carrier has a pilot where the ring gear fits on very tightly, and when you use a ring gear spacer the ring gear is no longer press fit on the carrier, and you have to use longer bolts to attach it. So basically the ring gear is now supported only by the bolts, which are longer and weaker than the originals, and you've now put in a lower gear ratio, which means more torque going to them. Not good.

 

This is a ring gear BOLT spacer we're talking about. The earlier R200's had 10mm ring gear bolts, the later ones had 12mm bolts. The bolts go thru the carrier and screw into the ring gear. So if you have a later LSD from a 300 ZX and you want to swap it into an earlier housing (for a different gear ratio) you have 12mm holes in the carrier but 10mm threads in the ring gear. So you need a spacer to take up the space in the holes in the carrier.

 

No machining needed. Just get 12mm tubing with 1mm wall thickness, and cut it to the thickness of the carrier, deburr/chamfer, and drop them in. The bolt heads on the 10mm bolts are 14mm so they should easily cover the ring gear spacers.

 

Jon

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Ok this is getting out of hand.

 

1-2126 asked whether he could use the nismo carrier in 280ZX, if the carrier is Part No specific to 280ZX or Z31 yes he can provided he can get Z31 viscous LSD driveshafts or makes custom driveshafts.

 

2- What I was trying to point out in my earlier post is that in 280ZX and Z31 the 8mm side bearing spacer is used on the right hand side for both pinion sizes whether there are different offsets in the carriers or as Jon has implied there are thicker and thinner crownwheels you would have to

ask a diff expert that has pulled enough apart.

 

3- But in the later 200SX-240SX shortnose diffs they use one carrier offset for both pinions using the 8mm side bearing spacer on the right for the larger pinion and on the left for the smaller pinion.

 

4- So if you see one advertised on ebay or elsewhere privately and the seller isn,t positive of what it is for or says it fits all R200s dont buy it unless it is cheap enough to take a punt.

 

5- I revise what I said earlier in that the bolt spacers need to be interference fit, if they are a neat fit you can probably you can just use the same sealant locking compound used on the bolts to keep them in place.

 

6- I am just finalising custom tripod drive shafts using the 200SX-240SX inner CV and 280ZX-Z31 outer CV with an adapter to make the outer CV an end stop instead of spring loaded sliding.

 

Stay posted. Neil

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I don't think Steve misunderstood, as I know I didn't in what the "ring gear" spacers are used for--his info was in addition to type of post. IOW, something else to consider--and I agreed. Spacers aren't bad. The Pontiac motors I'm speaking of will commonly be in the torque range of 400-500 on the ordinary street motors and the spacers/gears stay put--they will walk if the wrong Loke-tite and torque is used, but that's common with no spacer setups. IMO, the bolt bushings we're also talking about here are the equivalent of a ring gear spacer in that they will introduce potential "slop" if not done correctly.

 

Ring Gear spacers and bolt bushings, neither were the origianl question though.

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Yes Richard.

I,ve drawn it all up in cad, located some one in Melbourne to shorten and respline 200SX-240SX driveshafts and will machine the Outer CV housing as well as the adapter.

 

Ive ordered the last of my diff parts from Nissan when they come in I'll do its final assy. I originally measued the shaft lengths with the diff spacer on the right only to realise it needs to be on the left which alters the shaft lengths slightly.

 

Note I am working on 280ZX earlier Zs may need different shaft lengths.

 

No I am not going to make a kit as such just provide the info.

 

As to tripod strength the driveshaft company that I dealt with last year said that Ford Australia trialled them behind 4.6 litre Cobra Jet? motors and found that behind the 6 speed man they failed because they drove the needle rollers into the tripod. So they went the same way as Holden using plunging type CVs.

 

But if anyone else on this site has broken them please start another thread to discuss it. Neil

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