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four piston front brake question

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Look at the top of the page, and click on the search button. This topic has been discussed ad nauseam........

Search in the suspension forum......All the info you could possibly want is only a couple of clicks away :D

 

Tim

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Don't search using the box at the top of the screen. Click on forums, then seach right below the blue banner at the top. There is a little magnifying glass icon right next to the search that works.

 

Mods, is it possible to REMOVE the search that doesn't work? Would sure save a lot of useless posts.

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I just did a search using the search button at the top of the screen (between "Memberlist and "FAQ"), typed in Toyota Calipers, changed the radio button to 'search all terms' and selected the drivetrain forum and found tons of info.......

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Just kidding Tim! I make more mistakes on here than everyone else combined and I'm new!

 

I've done a bit of searching and I can find most anything now! But you do have to read alot of other stuff to get the info you need. Personally I find that I learn alot more than I expected to by the time I'm done. Try it out, you'll have more fun and learn alot more by perfecting your searches.

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http://hybridz.org/nuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=19020&highlight=toyota+caliper+part+number

 

Found this on my first search. Searched for "toyota caliper part number" and under Search for Keywords clicked on the button next to "Search for all terms".

 

Maybe the "search for all terms" will help in future searches. When I searched without clicking the search for all terms, I got 8722 matches. With it clicked... just 2.

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copied from brokebolts web site, pirated and pasted here with permission.

 

Max tire size: 17X7 rim 215/45R17 front and 17X8 rim 235/40R17 rear or 17X8 rim 235/45R17 front/rear

Stock 14X4.5 rim 195/70R14

 

Bump spacers: 3/4†for 14†wheels 1†for 15†wheels 1 1/4†for 16†wheels 1 1/2†for 17†wheels

 

Front rotor and CV spacers:

O.D. 155 mm I.D. 81 mm Thickness 17 mm Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance

O.D. 140 mm I.D. 20 mm Thickness 26 mm Eight holes bored for companion flange to CV

 

Early 240Z-280Z 17 mm hub flange later 280Z 25 mm hub flange 5 Lug 3 11/16†4 Lug 2 15/16â€

 

Wheel clearance it's easy to determine: First you need to measure the inset of the wheel caliper area (as I call it). This is the area of the wheel where the caliper exists when the wheel is bolted onto the hub. Using a small steel ruler, lay the ruler over the backside of the wheel on the hub area. Using a second steel ruler measure the distance from the first steel ruler to the bottom of the wheel caliper area. Now use the Port listing you can see what depth over stock is required:

S12W = 20 mm

S13WB = 28 mm

S12+8 solid rotor = 8 mm

S12+8 vented rotor = 20 mm

Wheel caliper area depth minus caliper protrusion equals wheel to caliper clearance.

 

Port listings:

Stamp Make Year Model Rotor type Thread diaXpitch Protrusion

N/A Nissan 1989-94 240SX Solid cast bnj 10X1.0 mm N/A

N/A Nissan 1970-78 240/260/280 Z Solid cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 88 mm

S12+8 Toyota 1979-85 Pickup 4X4 Solid cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 96 mm

S12+8 Toyota 1986-88 Pickup 4X4 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 108 mm

S12W Toyota 1988-92 Pickup 4X4 V6 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 118 mm

S12+8 Toyota 1989-91 4-Runner 4X4 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 108 mm

S12W Toyota 1992-95 4-Runner 4X4 V6 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 118 mm

S13WB Toyota 1993-98 T-100 4X4 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 116 mm

S13WB Toyota 1995-00 4-Runner 4X4 V6 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 116 mm

 

Port A: Large Four Piston Front Brakes with Vented Rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1970-73 Nissan Z hubs 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1984-85 Nissan 300ZX front rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern

1988-92 Toyota 4X4 V6 pickup front calipers marked ‘S12W’

OR

1995-00 Toyota 4-Runner 4X4 V6 front calipers marked ‘S13WB’

Eight bolts grade 10.9, 8 X 1.25 thread diameter and pitch 40 mm long with lock washers

Two metal spacer as listed below;

O.D. 155 mm

I.D. 81 mm

Thickness 17 mm

Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance

The front dust shield must be trimmed to accommodate the larger caliper, bend your old brake lines gently to fit, make sure they don’t touch anything or they will rub a hole in the brake lines.

 

Port B: Small Four Piston Front Brakes with Solid or Vented Rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1970-73 Nissan Z hubs 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1970-78 Nissan Z rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern

1979-85 Toyota 4X4 4 cylinder pickup with solid rotor, front calipers marked ‘S12+8’

OR

1984-85 Nissan 300ZX front rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern

1986-88 Toyota 4X4 4 cylinder pickup with vented rotor, front calipers marked ‘S12+8’

Eight bolts grade 10.9, 8 X 1.25 thread diameter and pitch 40 mm long with lock washers

Two metal spacer as listed below;

O.D. 155 mm

I.D. 81 mm

Thickness 17 mm

Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance

The front dust shield must be trimmed to accommodate the larger caliper, bend your old brake lines gently to fit, make sure they don’t touch anything or they will rub a hole in the brake lines.

 

Port C: Big Rear Disk Brake Conversion 240SX 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1989-98 Nissan 240SX calipers and hangers

1984-85 Nissan 300ZX rear rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1986-89 Nissan FWD Maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets both modified to fit

E-Brake extension available after market and they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets.

 

Port D: Small Rear Disk Brake Conversion 280ZX 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1982-83 Nissan 280ZX rear caliper and hangers

1982-83 Nissan 280ZX rear rotor 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1986-89 Nissan front wheel drive 810 Maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets both modified to fit

OR

1980-84 Nissan 810 Maxima Sedan rear bolt on brackets that have the floating dust shield

No E-Brake extension available after market but they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets.

 

Port E: Bone Stock Small Rear Disk Conversion Maxima 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX rear brake calipers and hangers

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1980-84 Nissan 810 Maxima Sedan rear bolt on brackets that have the screwed-on dust shield

E-brake extension available after market and they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets.

 

As for the e-brake extension, it is mealy a section of flat stock with two hole drilled in it. Get one stick of 36" X 1†X 5/32" mild steel flat stock at you local hardware store (1/8" may be easier to find), cut them into two sticks that measure 2" X 1" X 5/32†and drill holes to accommodate the stock e-brake U-shaped bracket and pin and a second pin is needed for the caliper. Holes may be about 1 1/2" apart or so. Not rocket science, simple fabricate that anyone with a small steel ruler, a hacksaw, a small grinder (bench or hand held) and a drill with bits can make in about an hour (if your slow at fabricating stuff). It is cheap enough so if you mess up the first pair, you still have 34" left to play with. Oh Speedway motors, Modern-Motor Sports, Arizona Z, and Outlaw Brakes sells after market stuff too.

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copied from brokebolts web site' date=' pirated and pasted here with permission.

 

Max tire size: 17X7 rim 215/45R17 front and 17X8 rim 235/40R17 rear or 17X8 rim 235/45R17 front/rear

Stock 14X4.5 rim 195/70R14

 

Bump spacers: 3/4†for 14†wheels 1†for 15†wheels 1 1/4†for 16†wheels 1 1/2†for 17†wheels

 

Front rotor and CV spacers:

O.D. 155 mm I.D. 81 mm Thickness 17 mm Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance

O.D. 140 mm I.D. 20 mm Thickness 26 mm Eight holes bored for companion flange to CV

 

Early 240Z-280Z 17 mm hub flange later 280Z 25 mm hub flange 5 Lug 3 11/16†4 Lug 2 15/16â€

 

Wheel clearance it's easy to determine: First you need to measure the inset of the wheel caliper area (as I call it). This is the area of the wheel where the caliper exists when the wheel is bolted onto the hub. Using a small steel ruler, lay the ruler over the backside of the wheel on the hub area. Using a second steel ruler measure the distance from the first steel ruler to the bottom of the wheel caliper area. Now use the Port listing you can see what depth over stock is required:

S12W = 20 mm

S13WB = 28 mm

S12+8 solid rotor = 8 mm

S12+8 vented rotor = 20 mm

Wheel caliper area depth minus caliper protrusion equals wheel to caliper clearance.

 

Port listings:

Stamp Make Year Model Rotor type Thread diaXpitch Protrusion

N/A Nissan 1989-94 240SX Solid cast bnj 10X1.0 mm N/A

N/A Nissan 1970-78 240/260/280 Z Solid cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 88 mm

S12+8 Toyota 1979-85 Pickup 4X4 Solid cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 96 mm

S12+8 Toyota 1986-88 Pickup 4X4 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 108 mm

S12W Toyota 1988-92 Pickup 4X4 V6 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 118 mm

S12+8 Toyota 1989-91 4-Runner 4X4 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 108 mm

S12W Toyota 1992-95 4-Runner 4X4 V6 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 118 mm

S13WB Toyota 1993-98 T-100 4X4 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 116 mm

S13WB Toyota 1995-00 4-Runner 4X4 V6 Vented cast FIF 10X1.0 mm 116 mm

 

Port A: Large Four Piston Front Brakes with Vented Rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1970-73 Nissan Z hubs 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1984-85 Nissan 300ZX front rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern

1988-92 Toyota 4X4 V6 pickup front calipers marked ‘S12W’

OR

1995-00 Toyota 4-Runner 4X4 V6 front calipers marked ‘S13WB’

Eight bolts grade 10.9, 8 X 1.25 thread diameter and pitch 40 mm long with lock washers

Two metal spacer as listed below;

O.D. 155 mm

I.D. 81 mm

Thickness 17 mm

Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance

The front dust shield must be trimmed to accommodate the larger caliper, bend your old brake lines gently to fit, make sure they don’t touch anything or they will rub a hole in the brake lines.

 

Port B: Small Four Piston Front Brakes with Solid or Vented Rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1970-73 Nissan Z hubs 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1970-78 Nissan Z rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern

1979-85 Toyota 4X4 4 cylinder pickup with solid rotor, front calipers marked ‘S12+8’

OR

1984-85 Nissan 300ZX front rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern

1986-88 Toyota 4X4 4 cylinder pickup with vented rotor, front calipers marked ‘S12+8’

Eight bolts grade 10.9, 8 X 1.25 thread diameter and pitch 40 mm long with lock washers

Two metal spacer as listed below;

O.D. 155 mm

I.D. 81 mm

Thickness 17 mm

Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance

The front dust shield must be trimmed to accommodate the larger caliper, bend your old brake lines gently to fit, make sure they don’t touch anything or they will rub a hole in the brake lines.

 

Port C: Big Rear Disk Brake Conversion 240SX 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1989-98 Nissan 240SX calipers and hangers

1984-85 Nissan 300ZX rear rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1986-89 Nissan FWD Maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets both modified to fit

E-Brake extension available after market and they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets.

 

Port D: Small Rear Disk Brake Conversion 280ZX 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1982-83 Nissan 280ZX rear caliper and hangers

1982-83 Nissan 280ZX rear rotor 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1986-89 Nissan front wheel drive 810 Maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets both modified to fit

OR

1980-84 Nissan 810 Maxima Sedan rear bolt on brackets that have the floating dust shield

No E-Brake extension available after market but they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets.

 

Port E: Bone Stock Small Rear Disk Conversion Maxima 4 X 4 1/2†lugs. Major parts include:

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX rear brake calipers and hangers

1979-81 Nissan 280ZX rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern

1980-84 Nissan 810 Maxima Sedan rear bolt on brackets that have the screwed-on dust shield

E-brake extension available after market and they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets.

 

As for the e-brake extension, it is mealy a section of flat stock with two hole drilled in it. Get one stick of 36" X 1†X 5/32" mild steel flat stock at you local hardware store (1/8" may be easier to find), cut them into two sticks that measure 2" X 1" X 5/32†and drill holes to accommodate the stock e-brake U-shaped bracket and pin and a second pin is needed for the caliper. Holes may be about 1 1/2" apart or so. Not rocket science, simple fabricate that anyone with a small steel ruler, a hacksaw, a small grinder (bench or hand held) and a drill with bits can make in about an hour (if your slow at fabricating stuff). It is cheap enough so if you mess up the first pair, you still have 34" left to play with. Oh Speedway motors, Modern-Motor Sports, Arizona Z, and Outlaw Brakes sells after market stuff too.[/quote']

 

 

8)

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Have a question about this setup............."Port A"

 

The spacer is 17mm thick and then you use 240z hubs which are 17mm thick, this together with the 1984-85 300z rotor, which is 35.5mm thick gives you an overall height of 69.5mm,

And,

If you look at the original 240z brakes,

240z hub is 17mm, Rotor is 52mm thick which gives you an overall height of 69mm,

Pretty much exactly the same,

 

& the 260z hub is 25mm.............

 

My question is,

 

I want to try and increase my wheel offset by 8-10mm to try and gain some more space between the wheel and the spring perch,

Because i want to fit larger tyres on my car

At the moment i have,

17by7" with 205/40-17's and you can just fit your pinky between the tyre and the spring perch on the front wheels

 

Im looking at going to 235/45 - 17 because they are cheap and plentiful and will eat up some of the 3" of space between my current tyres and the guard,

 

So could you just use 260z hubs instead of the 240z hubs with this brake setup and therefore increase your wheel offset by 8mm?

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Tonycharger 72,

 

I believe the 17mm spacer (a wheel spacer I believe) is to space the wheel away from the hub face so that the thicker 4-piston caliper will fit between the wheel and the rotor. The 300ZX rotor will fit onto the hub with caliper alignment, but then the wheel will hit the caliper because the caliper's size (extra outboard width) due to the two outside pistons (remember that the 300ZX rotor was spaced closer to the wheel with a floating caliper consideration in its design). I look at this data above, and it is obvious the spacer described is intended to fit between the hub and the rotor, but I was always under the impression that the 4-piston vented Toyota caliper was properly aligned with the 300ZX rotors if NO spacer was used. Can anyone verify this (I used the Nissan Floaters when I did this).

 

The later hubs, which had flanges thicker than the 240Z hubs, push the rotor inboard more (which helps in reducing the wheel spacer thickness), but now the caliper will not be "bolt on" because the rotor is misaligned with the caliper.

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I was always under the impression that the 4-piston vented Toyota caliper was properly aligned with the 300ZX rotors if NO spacer was used. Can anyone verify this (I used the Nissan Floaters when I did this).

The hat portion of the 300ZX rotor is shallower than the 240Z rotor due to the floater calipers. Spacers are needed to push the 300ZX rotor inboard to center it in the later Toyota 4-piston caliper. No spacers are needed when combining the stock 240Z rotors and non-vented early Toyota 4-piston calipers.

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I just did the 4x4 upgrade this weekend. Like Trevor says, the spacers are needed between the hub and the rotor hat to align the rotors inside the S12W calipers. Alex's pic shows them pretty clearly.

 

The stock steel wheels did rub slightly on the innermost cooling fin of the 4x4 caliber. I imagine a thin (may 1/4 inch) spacer between the wheel and the hub would fix that. But 60 seconds with a die grinder on the innermost caliper fin yielded adequate clearance.

 

Nice, meaty looking brake set but heavy as all get out.

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I'm going to make the switch to the toyota calipers and vented 300zx rotors, my dilema is whether to use 12-8 or 12W calipers. From this thread and a few others, it appears that the 12-8 have one large and one small piston, while the 12W has both large. That makes me think the fluid requirements are greater for the 12W, hence the recommendation for larger M/C.

 

I was all set to order the 12-8 as I believe they will be more than adequate for my needs, when I checked availability of pads. It looks like there are a lot of choices for the 12W and very few for the 12-8. That concerns me, especially if there will continue to be performance pads available in a few years for the 12-8.

 

I currently have the 12-8 non-vented calipers installed with the stock master cylinder on my '73 and have no issues with a long pedal. However I wonder if the 12W might need the 15/16' master cylinder upgrade which adds additional cost. I'm sure it's better, but is it required?

 

So my question is if anyone has tried the 12W caliper swap, and used their stock M/C with good results? For now, I'm going to leave the drums on the rear, if that matters.

 

Thanks.

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:burnout: I have had the S-12 system (on a 280Z hub) on my car with solid rotors. It all bolted right up. We used a 15X7 wheel with zero offset and didn't have any fit problems. I am now using the S12W system with 300ZX vented rotors running a 16X7 rim with a 225x50x16 tire (front wheel drive offset) on it (Had to use a 1 inch spacer on the wheel mounting area because of the front wheel drive spacing it had). Again I was able to bolt it right up. Didn't have to use any flat washers to align the calibers (both makes, S-12 orS12W) to the rotors. We did use a .375 size spacer to mount the rotor to the back of the hub. Thats because we used a 280Z hub on the 240Z spindle. On the 240Z hub you have to use the .50 spacer to fit the rotor to the hub. If you are using a 15" zero offset rim. You may not need a spacer to move the wheel out into the wheel well area for the wheel back spacing. On most front wheel drive rims, you may have to use a spacer to put it out of harms way. Good Luck, Rich.

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