Looking for Engine Advice PLEAAAAASE!

[mtcookson]

best 6 cyl - RB26 or 2JZ

 

VG30DETT and likely now the VQ35DE as well. I wouldn't say they were the absolute best but I would definitely prefer those two over at the least the RB26. I'm not sure about the 2JZ, but I dislike the really high rev power output of the RB26. The VG would be much more streetable with its higher low and mid-range torque.

[Gollum]

He has a good point. The 350Z has been doing pretty well since it's debute in the JGTC series and they use the VQ motor, so there's definately reliable power to be found in that motor.

[mtcookson]

They've been using them in the Skylines as well and are doing incredibly well compared to the RB. The weight and near "mid-engine" placement makes for a very well handling car and its power output can be equally matched.

 

Not only on the course but its done an incredible job at the drag strip too... http://www.theexperience.com/recordrun.htm

 

 

For a while I figured the thing was going to be a performance junker as people were blowing them pretty often it seemed... but now, they're proving to be simply amazing.

[rubin]

i thought the oped deck design was no good? i guess that could be solved with a resleeve but still...

[mtcookson]

I think they finally found out that it was the rods that were the weak link. They figured Nissan just tried making the internals as light as possible making them not handle a whole lot of power.

 

I'm sure under some real high power the open deck design would definitely need to be dealt with but for decent street setup they should handle it pretty well with some good internals.

[rubin]

anyone know the real advantage of open deck??

better cooling?

i always thought because it was a modular engine that it was easier to adapt it to different engine configuratons and displacement.. but im not sure

 

other then that i think open deck would be a great dissadvantage for strength and HG sealing

[mtcookson]

I hear two things on the open deck design. One was due to emissions regulations and another was due to the block being die cast. They said that due to die casting its harder to make the coolant passages and such so they have to make it open deck.

 

The die casting process makes the aluminum quite a bit stronger than the sand casting process.

[rubin]

I hear two things on the open deck design. One was due to emissions regulations and another was due to the block being die cast. They said that due to die casting its harder to make the coolant passages and such so they have to make it open deck.

 

The die casting process makes the aluminum quite a bit stronger than the sand casting process.

 

that makes sense since many new engines use open deck designs and they probably use the same new casting technology

[xx.jason.xx]

What is the purpose of having a motor in a street car that can rev to 11,000 RPM?

 

If you want a fun car, why worry about high revving, low displacement motors and go with something that will give you a truely fun car, like an SR20DET, or if you are stuck on NA, go with the aforementioned VQ35.

 

I have driven an S2000, and personally, it wasnt really that fun of a car, simply due to the lack of a low end. This is basically what you are looking at. If this is what you want, good luck. I will be way ahead of you with my TT V12.

[TheNeedForZ]

You have a TT V12?

[xx.jason.xx]

Not yet. In the works..

[Gollum]

I got to drive a 180hp 13 sec CRX the other day. I thought it was a fun car. Not really my idea of a money pit project car but my idea of the perfect commuter/daily driver. The weaker low end means you don't need an insane clutch or anything and you can cruise around with a very tame vehicle that acts like pretty much everything else on the road. But wind it up and it's got some nice pulling power. The only thing I didn't like was the gearing. It was nice for track use and for getting through the gears but it left me wanted a 6th and maybe even a 7th. I think the owner said it was 4.6X or somewhere around there. Hondas get pretty high up there. I think some of the tpye R trannys were even as high was 4.7X. The good thing about a gearing setup like this though is that you bring it up to 8k and it doesn't drop bellow 6k (or there abouts) wich means you stay in the motors power range. I personally feel this is the most over-looked aspect of low tourqe high reving motors. Sure they don't have tourque, but they've still make good power, just not in the lower band. And you can keep it in it's power band so who cares? It's good at what it does in it's own right. I don't get why some many people look down on that type of a setup (other than most of these motors don't have the same potential for HP as a big displacement motor).

 

Anyways, my point is that your definition of "fun" can change depending on what car you're talking about. A 180HP crx probly wouldn't be much fun for street racing or for driving around a road course but it's a dang fun daily driver that can get over 30MPG easily.

[xx.jason.xx]

any car where you have to use the phrase "wind it up" to me is not too much of a fun car, due to the fact that i like my cars to have that thing that hondas generally lack, called torque.

 

any motor where you have to wait for 6k RPM until it gets fun really isnt worth it in a street car, IMO.

[ProjectSR20]

any car where you have to use the phrase "wind it up" to me is not too much of a fun car' date=' due to the fact that i like my cars to have that thing that hondas generally lack, called torque.

 

any motor where you have to wait for 6k RPM until it gets fun really isnt worth it in a street car, IMO.[/quote']

 

Its too bad then that you never got to ride in my Civic Hatch before I got hit. Torque or no torque it was a blast to drive. Especially if you got into the corners. I could race V8 mustangs all day and smoke em. Actually, the only car I ever lost a street race to was a 1991 Eagle Talon TSI (another "no torque motor"). I guess each person has his idea of what a "fun" car is...

[Gollum]

Didn't I semi-adress the no tourque issue? Even cruising it's hard to see below 3k cruising on the freeway. The tranny is geared to EASILY keep the motor ABOVE 6k. And consider this, these motors rev so fast on thier own that even if starting off the line the no-tourque range quickly dissapears and isn't a factor.

 

Now, they don't FEEL like a V8 tourque monster. But that doesn't mean it's not fast. I personly think the thing that makes the CRX I drove fun is the fact that you CAN stay above 6k if you want, becuase it redlines at 8k and is geared so perfectly for it's powerband. It's just dang anoying for cruising beucase anything above 60MPH you're above 2.5k easily. You can hit 4k on the freeway without even noticing it. 4k in my ZX feels like it's stressing.

 

I don't know though. I have too much fun in so many cars. So i'm not trying to downplay the beuty of a V8 but at the same time I've found ways to respect all well built motors that do well what they're meant to do.

[xx.jason.xx]

Its fun to you, not to me. good for you.

 

But piss-poor torque cant be made up for, period.

[tweakinZs]

You definately are asking way out of range of any 4cyl. Especially one that is N/A. Definately any engine you do decide on, besides as someone mentioned earlier a motorcyle engine, is going to need mojor internal upgrades. You'll need high compression pistons, larger cam, all new valve train, port and polish, blueprinting, balancing, the works. You would definately be better off settling for an 8cyl to reach your HP range your looking for, or use a very-well built 6cyl to reach the RPM's your looking for and close to the HP torque range.

 

HOWEVER, with very much time, connections and knowhow, my dad manage to build a Chevy 327 that would reach 14,000 RPM running off pump gas and N/A. The motor was put in his 77 stingray, the car was so fast he reached 175 on the freeway before the car decided the tires werent going to stick anymore.

 

So, my point is anything is possible as long as you do your homework and look outside the box and search for a rarer motor such as the 69 327 I have that with just new pistons (stock bore) lighter rods and Vette racing cam it spins over 8000 rpm making 400 hp and 407 lb/ft of tourque. Using slightly modified Chevy 305 heads bringing the compression ratio from its factory 9.4:1 to a whopping 11:1. The engine puts 300 hp from the factory. Lets see how many 60's 350's can pull that off.

 

-Mario

[johnc]

HOWEVER, with very much time, connections and knowhow, my dad manage to build a Chevy 327 that would reach 14,000 RPM running off pump gas and N/A. The motor was put in his 77 stingray, the car was so fast he reached 175 on the freeway before the car decided the tires werent going to stick anymore.

 

That's a pretty bold claim considering what Yates and Hendrick had to do to get 10,000 rpm reliably out of small block V8s. What did your dad do for the oiling system? How did he drive the alternator, water pump, etc.? What was the distributor drive?

[TheNeedForZ]

...my dad manage to build a Chevy 327 that would reach 14,000 RPM running off pump gas and N/A. The motor was put in his 77 stingray, the car was so fast he reached 175 on the freeway before the car decided the tires werent going to stick anymore.

 

Wow do you have the spec of the engine?

[tweakinZs]

Its too bad then that you never got to ride in my Civic Hatch before I got hit. Torque or no torque it was a blast to drive. Especially if you got into the corners. I could race V8 mustangs all day and smoke em. Actually, the only car I ever lost a street race to was a 1991 Eagle Talon TSI (another "no torque motor"). I guess each person has his idea of what a "fun" car is...

 

Granted Hondas are low torque motors, the cars they come in are generally light wheight anyway. Torque is usually only a big problem with heavier cars, Using a Honda for example, my friend had a mild GSR motor in his 93 hatch, he had a cold air, DC sport header, 5Zigen exhaust, full interior, and stereo and still ran a mid 13 sec 1/4 mile. That motor wound up to 9000 RPM, granted he blew the head about the 4th time doing so, it was still very impressive and can chew through the Z rated times from first to fourth gear. As of you comment on the TSI Talon, its not so much a problem of lack of torque, the cars are fairly powerful, thier downfall is needing the extra power for the 4wd, this is why the TSI is a turbo car and not N/A.

 

Thats honestly just my opinon on things, I do agree on the fact of "no replacement for displacement" but I do also have to agree it depends on what your driving and whos driving it. On another example, my moms 68 Roadrunner with a 383 and four speed, full interior, steel mags, ect... could still outrun Corvettes all day long, yes believe it or not she even took them around corners too. Cops couldnt touch her either.