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So you want to swap a ROTARY into your Z! (how-to)

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Gollum    23

wow... 1st post. SMOOTH move NISSAN4EVER... Do me a favor and read something before you try to speak, it might help you a bit.

 

I'll be suprised if he lasts 10 posts at this rate. Oh well.

 

If you DON'T want to get baned, you'll want to study the rules of the board.

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Alex_V    10

eh nobody pay attention to him and he'll go away.

 

As for the oil pump mod. As far as I read it was on one of the older engines that had a mecanical MOP, and he modified it to feed off a tank mounted in the corner of the firewall and fender. It also has to be above the pump so gravity feeds it.

 

I believe he used a winshield washer resivor so he could use the low level warning. But I want to say it was yellowing so there was talk of a metal tank with the sensor grafted in....

 

The point was to run seperate tank so it wouldnt use crankcase oil and have the option of running the cleaner burning 2 stroke oil or cheap 4 stroke oil, what ever your prefrence is.

 

Thats pretty much the extent of the mods, I dont remember the specifics but its a great option to running premix. I would probably remix as Ive seen some great results with that. My friend tore an engine that used premix and it looked like it didnt have much wear at all.

 

Then again I cant argue the benifits of the MOP as I dont have any idea on how it works. Im a rotary fan Ive just never owned one, but I do want a 2ed gen soon...

 

Randy- I agree with people not being used to it. Its just people expecting it to be exactly like a piston engine.

 

~Alex

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auxilary    39
This is really really REALLY dumb lol, a true waste or time, money and space lol........... blasphemy

 

I bet your mom said the same thing about you when you were born. Probably got slapped with a littering fine too.

 

Mods, don't ban him. This could prove to be entertaining

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auxilary    39
Then again I cant argue the benifits of the MOP as I dont have any idea on how it works. Im a rotary fan Ive just never owned one, but I do want a 2ed gen soon...

 

mop basically pumps small amount of crankcase oil and squirts it into the combustion chamber to lube the sidewalls for apex seals (chrome finish). So without MOP, you have to run 2stroke premix to lube them

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Owen    10
eh nobody pay attention to him and he'll go away.

 

As for the oil pump mod. As far as I read it was on one of the older engines that had a mecanical MOP, and he modified it to feed off a tank mounted in the corner of the firewall and fender. It also has to be above the pump so gravity feeds it.

 

I believe he used a winshield washer resivor so he could use the low level warning. But I want to say it was yellowing so there was talk of a metal tank with the sensor grafted in....

 

The point was to run seperate tank so it wouldnt use crankcase oil and have the option of running the cleaner burning 2 stroke oil or cheap 4 stroke oil, what ever your prefrence is.

 

Thats pretty much the extent of the mods, I dont remember the specifics but its a great option to running premix. I would probably remix as Ive seen some great results with that. My friend tore an engine that used premix and it looked like it didnt have much wear at all.

 

Then again I cant argue the benifits of the MOP as I dont have any idea on how it works. Im a rotary fan Ive just never owned one, but I do want a 2ed gen soon...

 

Randy- I agree with people not being used to it. Its just people expecting it to be exactly like a piston engine.

 

~Alex

 

The MOP has to be modified, unless you buy one from somewhere like Atkins Rotary. I'm premixing cuz my engine mount doesn't leave enough space for the MOP.

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auxilary    39

IMG_0156.sized.jpg

IMG_0159.sized.jpg

Some slightly old pics. Fuel system. I've routed all lines since, and all that is left is the return line to the tank and secondary fuel injectors to be installed.

 

Top pic has 2 fuel rails in parallel setup, -8an feeding into 2 -6an rails, going back to an aeromotive a1000 afr with an FP gauge, and single return to the fuel cell.

 

the bottom pic is gravity feed from sump via -8an to a 60micron filter to walbro 255lph fuel pump to 10micron summit filter to fuel rails

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LS1 240Z    10

ok, so dont think im trying to be stupid here BUT.. later on are you going to put 2 or more rotors on the front if it? the thing that intrests me the most about the rotor engines is that you can stack as many of them as you want on top of each other as you want

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Gollum    23

In theory yes. In principal no. If you can find someone who makes the eccentric shaft for the right rotor count. I believe there's also a bit of work that needs to be done to the housings to just keep stacking them, though I could be wrong on this.

 

The stock motor still uses a counter weight and if you wanted a 4 rotor to fire 4 even fires you'd still need some type of counterweight. There's a guy though that built a race purpose 4 rotor who setup his motor to have 2 rotors in sync and the other 2 180 degrees offset. This allowed for NO counterweight and much faster revs, though it was rougher sounding. I think this might be how mazda setup the 787B judging by how rough it sounds anything near idle.

 

The point that I'm getting at is that it's not as easy as it looks. It can take a lot more time and effort than it's really worth in some cases. But yes it's possible, and has been done.

 

Feel free to chime in aux, i know you know way more than me about rotary motors.

 

EDIT: Here's the link to the previously mentioned 4 rotor with no counter balance

 

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/4rotor.html

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auxilary    39
ok, so dont think im trying to be stupid here BUT.. later on are you going to put 2 or more rotors on the front if it? the thing that intrests me the most about the rotor engines is that you can stack as many of them as you want on top of each other as you want

 

Not quite. While technically you can stack rotary rotor and intermediate housings in sequence, you need custom bolts (18 of them) to tie it all in together and a custom eccentric (crank) shaft made. There's a company in AU that manufactures these, but in short, 4 rotors are very expensive. 3 rotor 20b (2liter) costs around 4000-4500 for the motor alone with accessories and turbos.

 

Given what I learned, you cannot run a stock twin turbo setup from 13b-re, rew, or 20b-re motors: they won't clear the rails. Single or dual non-sequential turbo setup will have to be used to bring turbos up higher, and that's where it starts getting expensive for custom manifolds, etc.

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Guest 84zman   
Guest 84zman

hey Aux, do you plan on having the drawings for your motor mount up anytime soon? or would you mind making me one?

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Owen    10
Anymore updates on this? I can't stop coming back to this thread and then checking ebay for craigslist for cheap 13bt's. No luck so far though... What are your thoughts on boosting a NA 13b? Those I can find quite easily and dirt cheap.

 

You might want to spend the extra money and get one in good condition. I discovered a water jacket failure in mine and had to buy a whole new set of used irons:-(

 

An NA can be boosted but the compression ratio is higher for the rotors. It's been done tho.

 

Auxillary, look what you started. First me and now everyone else is copying you!

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dosquattro    10

I knew the NA blocks had a higher CR then the turbo'd blocks. Just wasn't sure it was too high. Maybe I'll just toss a thicker headgasket in it to lower it. :bonk: Really though. My local pick and pull does the any engine in the yard for 150 and they pull it and load it into your car even. Anything bolted onto it is included with the 150 besides the tranny. It's a toss up between this and a FWD SR20DE longblock and using the l-series adapter plate.

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auxilary    39

not worth it to buy a JY rotary. Very high chance that the rotor and side housings are shot. If not from a blown apex, then from rust and corrosion etching their way into the chrome.

 

It'd be a better idea to buy a crappy beat up rx7 for ~400-500 that's still running and has good compression, pull that motor and rebuild it, part out rest of the car

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Guest Jakor   
Guest Jakor
I knew the NA blocks had a higher CR then the turbo'd blocks. Just wasn't sure it was too high.

 

The n/a blocks actually don't have higher compression... It's the rotors ;)

The turbo blocks just retain the 4 port intake instead of the 6 port intake, and remove the sleeves in the exaust ports so you can actually port them... :rolleyes:

 

@Aux: You know, a three rotor turbo woulda fit better in there. =p I just wanted to throw in that you don't need a turbo to make a rotary powerful. 200 rwhp is attainable with a 2nd gen n/a motor, and is still a big upgrade from the 180bhp that a stock 280zxt puts out. I noticed some people were just waiting to afford the 3rd gen turbo motor, but there are other things that can be done. Going with the n/a as long as you don't run nitrous, you don't even need the T2 tranny.

 

I just purchased my 82 280zxt because I blew my coolant seal in my motor (and my girlfriend was going to need a car when I got my 7 back). I figured it was time for a rebuild. It's s4 so I figure I'm limited to around 190 rwhp before my 100 shot of nitrous (keeping it well on the safe side). If I had access to a s5, I'd get everything balanced and turn 9k rpm on a streetport. Then I'd see over 200 rwhp. I guarrentee you that 190-200 rwhp with a decent suspension, and maby a 255 size tire, you'd be a top contender down at autox.

 

 

Any questions, I'd be glad to see what I can come up with. The z is my first turbo car, so I'm not too good with turbo related questions. I was running a high 14 with a cone filter, and a full 2.5" exhaust. Not bad for a 16 second car stock (amazing what rotating mass removal can do.....)

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