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P90A head ticking what to do?

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UPDATE: PICTURE OF LIFTER A FEW POSTS DOWN....

 

Once the engine is fully warmed up, the oil pressure at idle is showing about 15psi at idle. It runs about 30-45psi when driving around. Today when I got home and idled up the driveway I heard tick tick tick very loud from the valve cover. As soon as I revved a little it went away. At idle, the tick comes and goes with the engine hot. I'm 99% sure its the Hydraulic Lifter collapsing at idle.

 

I read all about the lifter rebuild and the conversion the solid lifter conversion. BUT, right now, I am not wanting to pull the motor or do heavy work on the car.

 

Can I postpone the "fix" until I am ready to build a new monster motor next season?

 

Will running heavier oil help? Now it only ticks at idle intermittently with hot 10W30 Synthetic.

 

Should switching to 20W50 help get me through? I don't use the car much at all. (Ploxlamus, it didnt work for you did it? What did you end up doing?)

 

If I do end up using TIMESERT inserts and convert to solid lifters from my L28, do I need a different cam, rockers, or lash pads?

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Drain a quart of your oil and add "Rislone" to it. Its an additive that help clean your lifters. Its not as good as tearing it down and cleaning them individually, but it usually will take care of the lifters after running it for a bit. As far as the conversion goes. If you go that route, you will need a different cam. The hydraulic cam will create nothing but problems in a non-hydraulic head. This may cause an arguement here, but the cams are not the same and should not be interchanged. Will the car run with a hydraulic cam in it? Yes, some people wouldn't even notice the difference in regular driving, but trust me. You are much better off buying a used cam meant for a solid lifter head. You also should resurface your rocker arms, and check your wipe patern. You may or may not need new lash pads, after checking the pattern, you'll know for sure.

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Yes sometimes, about 1 out of 10 times it will tick for about 3 seconds when the car starts cold. It always goes away. Today, it came back when the car was fully warmed up and idling. After the car cooled for a few hours, I started it up again and no ticking.

 

I will try the risolene....but I might take the lifters out to clean them over the winter if it lasts til then. Do the Hydraulic lifters actually come apart for cleaning?

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This fixed my majorly ticking lifters. Just loosen the cam shaft bolts alittle and remove the rockers. Then get a deep 1" socket or maybed you can use a regularo 1" and take the hydraulic lifters out. Then remove the collar for it is just slid on. Take it all apart and put in a bucket of diesel fluid for a could of hours. Then put back together but remember not to over tighten them. They will bind. After you tighten them make sure you can still push them down. Should fix your problem good luck.

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Yeah I think I am going to try to clean them either this week or next weekend. I found some instructional document about cleaning them. They suggested kerosene. I guess we will see how lazy I am if I am real lazy, I will dump in Risolene. If I get motivated to take the puppy apart, I will remove them and soak them in Kerosene. If those dont fix it...I will park the Z and start planning the monster build for next year.

 

I drove it today and it didn't tick at all. I guess it depends on the temp of the oil or how the dirt floats around in the lifters.

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I noticed that one of mine will get noisy if I let the oil level get lower than 1/2 way between the Full and Add lines (leaky oil pan plug). I added about 1/4 qt of Marvel Mystery Oil and topped off with 10/30 and it has been quiet (knock on wood).

 

Thumper - what do you mean by "cam shaft bolts" - do you mean the cam tower bolts? Loosen them to get the rockers off? I'm confused.

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DO NOT USE THICKER OIL...

 

I went from 10w-30 to 20w-50 and it was awful.. the ticking was about 100 times worse...

 

 

I didnt take mine apart.. but i soaked them in brake fluid cleaner.. didnt work.. so you need to tear them apart..

 

OR spend $36 and grab some solid lifters and rocker arms from any solid head.

 

I just bought a P90 so i could steal the solid lifters from it.. and then sell the head.

 

But seriously.. ticked on start up on cold days.... when the engine warms up and im sitting at a stop light TICK TICK TICK TICK... I even tried automatic transmission fluid for 2 days... nothing..

 

 

BTW - you DO NOT NEED to loosen the camshaft bolts...

 

since 1/2 of the camshaft tower bolts are the HEADBOLTS!

 

I simply used a large flat head screwdriver.. and held the valve open and popped the rocker arm off. Then I unscrewed the lifter and it came right out.. took about an hour to pull and install the rockers and lifters total. So 30 min each way... I soaked them in fluid for 2 hours.

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http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=1&i=614314&t=614229

 

Just wanted to report the result of my efforts to find a cheap alternative to convert P90A hydraulic lifter head to solid lifters. It can be easily accomplished for about $35 bucks.

 

Because the hydraulic lifter bosses are already WAY countersunk, you only need to buy 12 20mm Timesert thread inserts for $2.71 each (+shipping) rather than the expensive tool kit (which includes a thread tap, insert countersink tool, and thread locking tool you won't use).

 

When you get the threaded inserts from Timesert:

1. Remove the hydraulic lifters

2. Thread the Timesert inserts into the lifter bosses until they bottom out

3. Install solid lifters.

 

Done!

 

The solid lifters are a LOT shorter than the hydraulic lifters. The hydraulic lifter bosses are pre-countersunk in a way, as the threads are only at the bottom of the lifter boss. So the threaded insert when installed is below the top-deck of the head. The solid lifters aren't as long as the hydraulic lifters, so they only engage the thread inserts in the first 5-6 threads. But seeing as the lifters see only compression forces, not tension forces, 5-6 threads are plenty to hold the lifters into the head.

 

I took lots of pics and will post a short, well illustrated "how-to" article on the net when I find the time. So all those P90A heads out there should now be considered viable and cost-effective alternatives to P79s.

 

Cheers,

Alex

 

They're 1.5mm thread, as are the solid lifters. Hydro are 20 x 1.5 x 28 (total lifter length). Solid 18 x 1.5 x ~19mm.

 

http://www.timesert.com

 

The Timesert item number is 18153 (M18x1.5x18.3 INSERT)

 

Time Fastener Co

5301 Longley Lane

Reno, NV 89511

(775) 829-1026

 

 

Thanks Alex from Zcar.com for that..

 

Ryan

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Well, here I am. I got a flat tire on the Z so it gave me an excuse to actually take it into the garage. I pulled off the valve cover and popped out a hydraulic lifter in about 2 minutes. I will finish it up tomorrow. The lifter body is stamped 29M.

 

Is this as far as it comes apart or can it be taken apart further for soaking in a cleaner? Should I stick a wire in the port to clean it or not? Any suggestions?

 

Here is one of the lifters:

108558245-L.jpg

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You know I got that far too... I was afraid of removing the top portion off with those dimples and it scared the hell out of me.. Ted (thumper) says just pop them off, but being my daily driver I was a bit nervous on that.

 

 

I soaked it in brake fluid cleaner.. without removing the cap.. didnt do anything..

 

Lets see what others say about this one

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Well, mine is not a daily driver and I have a 280Z motor sitting right here so I took the risk of damage and popped the cap off the lifter.

 

PARTIALLY DISASSEMBLED

108697552-L.jpg

 

The easiest way to do it is to grab the ball tip in a vice. With the lifter upside down. Use aluminum jaws in the vice and wrap the ball with tape or cloth to avoid damage. Get a wide flat tip screw driver and push down on the edge of the cap and gently tap the end of the screwdriver with your fist. Work all the way around the cap a little at a time and it pops off. The center section (piston) then slides right out. Look down into the lifter body after flushing it out with some solvent and you will see the top of a spring ball valve. I filled the body with solvent and pushed down gently on the ball to let the solvent get into the lower part of the lifter workings. I will do this to all of them and let them soak in a bath of solvent for a couple of days.

 

I am not sure if this is the end all solution but it's mildly fun.

 

At this point I understant how the lifter works but the thing that baffles me, for now, is where does that ball-spring valve at the bottom of the body lead to? There are no bleed holes anywhere near the bottom of the housing?........EDIT: AHAA!

 

I get it now.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html <----this helped I will post more pics after lunch. There are more parts to this story.

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Continuing on:

 

I picked up a gallon can of chem dip parts cleaner and will disassemble and soak all the lifters tonight.

 

Part two of disassembly.

Pictures should speak for themselves. Hint use the back end of a Sharpie to pull out the bottom lifter piston. Pull VERY slowly and twist after you cram the sharpie into the piston.

 

108750096-M.jpg

 

108750100-M.jpg

 

108750088-M.jpg

 

 

I roughly measured about 0.0005" clearance between the body and the piston.

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Thanks, actually it's a pretty run-of-the-mill Olympus camera that we use at work. It's a beater cam. The trick is Photoshop.

 

I didn't have time yesterday to take the rest of the lifters out and soak them. I am hoping to do that tonight and put it back together by the end of the week.

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Update:

 

The lifters were full of a thick black gooey sludge.

 

I soaked all the disassembled lifters one at a time in GUNK carb cleaner dip. The stuff is amazing. 20 minutes and they wiped clean to bare metal. Next I dunked the parts in 10W-30, wiped them, and assembled them. After I did all of them, I installed them basically "empty". I cranked the starter with no injection for about 1 minute. Then I started the engine and they ticked pretty loudly. After about 5 seconds, they got quieter but not nearly as quiet as they should be. They sounded more like a solid lifter with too much clearance. I shut it down after 2 minutes of idle and took them all out again. I had at least 70psi oil pressure showing.

 

This time, I am going to assemble them while totally submerged in 10W-30 so that they are full of oil when installed. Fingers crossed.

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Good news and procedure I used for installing the lifters.

 

Well, I learned that you don't install the lifters without filling them up with oil first. After I cleaned them and installed them semi-dry, they ticked like a sewing machine and wouldn't pump up after a few minutes at idle. I didn't feel comfortable letting the engine run like that so I decided to try another approach.

 

1) With the lifters completely disassembled and clean, dunk the parts in a pot of clean motor oil. (dont mix lifter parts).

2) Reach in the pot and get all the air our of the parts by kickin them around.

3) Assemble them completely submerged in oil, leaving off the retainer cap. (use pin punch to push the inner ball check open to get cylinder down the bore).

4) Take the assembled lifter out of the pot and hold it in a vice threads down. (aluminum jaws in the vice please!!)

5) Place the cap on carefully level, and tap it on with a socket and SMALL hammer and LIGHT taps. It will not go on all the way yet.

6)Once the cap is in place you should not be able to twist it by hand.

7)Compress the lifter in the vice very slowly and work the cap on with your fingers until it just snaps into place and rotates freely by hand.

8)Install the lifter in the car. Tighten to 30-35ft lb...not more.

 

NOTE: When i started the car there was little or no compression because the lifters needed to sink down to their operating level. I hooked up a battery charger, disabled the ignition and cranked for 20 seconds at a time. After about 2 minutes, I could hear the compression coming back so I enabled the ignition. It fired up and idled rough with little vacuum for about 1-2 minutes. I could see as the idle started to smooth out, the vacuum climbed steadily to 19in. This was an indication that the lifters were "finding" their correct positions. I took it for a drive and it feels like it has at least 25 more HP and 25 more foot pounds. I found myself thinking of getting wider rear tires as the rear end started getting loose in 3rd gear at 55mph!

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