premo-s12 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 cuzz DSM owners sure as hell DONT!! sorry to post this here but ive posted it on several DSM sites and they're absolute idiots..that aside, here's my frustration. i got a s13 convertible a while back for free, i already have 2 so with that making 3 i put it up in craigslist and had this guy want to trade me a 1992 mitsu eclipse AWD turbo. sure, why now?! ive never had one and it had a freshly rebuilt 4g63...what the hell. what the hell is right! this thing has been a f***cking thorn in my side for to long now and i dont get ANYWHERE except frustrated with these ppl and their HORRIBLY vague shop manual. now, i have a proper mitsu shop manual, not a chiltons but there is more or less no flowcharts on diagnosing problems (unlike awesome nissan shop manuals, yay), no descriptions on how to bench test sensors, etc, etc. i suspect a bad MAF, but it doesnt say how to test the damn thing, just what it does and where its located?! wtf i know where its located and what it does. so the deal went down like this, this guy had it, drove it then thd trans went out on him so he installed a new one. he couldnt figure out how to hook up the transmission linkages for 6 months (LOL!!) and decided to get rid of it. now, he swears it was running great up until the trans went out adn i dont have any reason to doubt him as he seems like a pretty straight fwd guy and i still keep in moderate contact with him to this day...so it is possible he stuffed something in teh removal of the trans (3x cuzz he couldnt figure it out) but who knows. another thing i found odd was a few vacuum lines were taken off: well, not vacuum but intake. the hose to the bypass valve was off and the valve cover breather hose was off. i replaced those and went to fire...nothing but a sputter. crank, crank crank and after a while and a few battery charges i finally got it to fire. i had bad spark (cracked coil on cyls 1&4) so i replaced that coil. i also had bad plug wires as they were missing a few connectors, so i replaced those and the plugs. im still in the same boat as it runs JUST the same. i checked base timing and ignition timing when i managed to get it to hold an idle for more tehn 1 second...good! i checked fuel pressure coming into the rail, good! i checked compression, way more then good! the thing that struck me as odd tho is that the damn thing runs just as good with or without the MAF hooked up but the manual doesnt give me any way to diagnosis it or pinouts to bench test it or a diagram on wire pinouts to teh ECU, etc, etc..im dying here! naturally the DSM guys dont know jack aside from check the fuel pump fues, so i thought id give this place a go. again, any help is GREATLY APPRECIATED!! hell, to make things worse, i was talking to my smog guy (he's a good friend) and he cant even plug the damn thing in to his computer and has just as much info on the car as i do. said im just as good off as plugging my voltmetre into the pins and reading the morse code (not joking) that comes out of the ECU when it registers a problem, which its not. oh yea, here's the link to one of the DSM sites i posted on. again, im sorry for posting this non z-related stuff on this forum but u guys are A LOT more helpful then these guys have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombarace14 Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Well I do work for Mitsu/Hyundai as a Tech. Flashing the code on a DVOM wont do any good unless the sensor is completly open or shorted. Thats all an ODO1 system will check for. Monday I'll see what I can find in terms of diag. flow charts. There are 2 books one elec. manual and the other is the engine/trans/body/troubleshooting. 1st off make sure there are no leaks from the MAF to the turbo inlet then make sure all hose clamps for boost tubes are tight. 2nd Right off hand I cant remember what year they started, but there might be a vacuum selinoid near the brake booster. That runs the the FPR, check to make sure thats getting proper vac/boost. 3rd If you do think it is the MAF figure out witch wire is the signal wire should be between 0-5 volts. Lower at idle higher on throttle. Hope that helps alittle, Id be able to tell you more with more info about how the car is acting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premo-s12 Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 hello. thanks for the help/input. ive already checked for vacuum leaks and it was alright. yes, it has that solonoid by the brake booster and under manifold pressure (as the manual says) i have proper vacuum goin to teh FPR, checked that already as far as the MAF goes, thats what i want to know: which pins i use to apply 12v to the unit and which ones are for my output voltage. thanks for the help dude, REALLY appreciated and on the code flashing, it doesnt give me a check engine light if the MAF is unplugged which according to the service manual it should.. im at a loss dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombarace14 Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Then might want to swap an ECU cause it should see the MAF being disconnected. As for the MAF and checking it cause im gonna have to look at a diagram for the pinout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 There are transistors that fire the coil packs, there is a test procedure for those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 81na ZX Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 The Haynes manual has a procedure for checking the MAF. But if you disconnect it and it doesn't throw a CE, theres a bigger problem than a bad MAF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrainDay Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Then might want to swap an ECU cause it should see the MAF being disconnected. The capacitors in the ECUs in these cars tend to fail over time, causing all manner of weird problems. I'd open up the ECU and see if there's any capacitor puke on the circuit board. See here: http://www.tmo.com/howto/ecu1g/caps.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premo-s12 Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 Awesome, thx guys! Im getting WAAAY more help here and on club-s12 then on the DSM forums..haha! classic Oh, and on a side note, ive been warned: "Dear premo-s12, You have received an infraction at DSM Forums. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151099176 Reason: All Other Violations ------- Please use proper capitalization in tech forums. Thank you. ------- This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire. All the best, DSM Forums" I actually got banned from one of the DSM forums for bad punctiation or something lame like that..i know my grammar isnt perfect but i try. i dint think a warning or a ban were in order tho! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premo-s12 Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 There are transistors that fire the coil packs, there is a test procedure for those. Well, spark seems to be good. If they go out it would just give me little to no spark correct? or would it be firing late? I cant personally say ive ever had one go out on a car i owned.. The capacitors in the ECUs in these cars tend to fail over time, causing all manner of weird problems. I'd open up the ECU and see if there's any capacitor puke on the circuit board. See here: http://www.tmo.com/howto/ecu1g/caps.htm Sweet, ill give that a go. For whatever reason, the ECU was not hooked up when i recieved the vehicle..it was sitting on the passenger seat. Perhaps I should just get an EBAY cheapy ECU just for good measure adn see what happens. What strikes me as odd is that the longer i try to start it the better it gets...it'll sputter longer if that makes any sence and try harder to fire. After about 20-30 minutes of this it will fire and the longer i keep it running the better it will run. it never really does run RIGHT tho, just thought i should add that in there tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickSilverAWD Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 If your trying to find a replacement ECU for your GSX then hunt for an EPROM ecu at the junkyard. They sell for about 50 at the yard and anywhere up to 250 on ebay. The reason being is that the EPROM is a chip on the ecu that is able to adjust the fuel trims etc that the ecu is reading. BTW DSMTooooners is a joke. IM me on AIM if you have any other questions. BraxW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premo-s12 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 cool, thx for teh tip. im beginning to notive (dsmtuners). i'd post on dsmtalk but ive been banned for pore grammar, LOL!!! anyways, it looks like the ECU is shot out. i went to check the caps to be sure as all the sensors were checking fine (and i do mean ALL of em) and found that someone had been in there before. it was butchery too...they must of had the soldering iron at 850!! looks like they burnt the board in one spot (under the 47uF cap) and put some makeshift jumper in using the material you'd cut off when u put something onto a board..well, that was loose and hitting stuff. umm, yea. it needs to be replace. but the DSM has just been put on teh back burner as i picked up a 95 saleen mustang this weekend so ill be playing with that for a bit, yay! thanks dude! ill PM ya if i have anymore problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premo-s12 Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 so the bad ecu was just the tip of the iceberg of all the stupid little things that were wrong with it..I sold it to the first sucker, errr...person that brought me cash. one less project out back to deal with now I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 good to hear:grin:. I've always had problems with DSMs. its not the mechanical stuff its with all the electronics. they all start to crap out after about 5 years. I've have that capacitor problem many times before, but not just isolated to the ECU. I actually had someone GIVE me a stealth vr-4 because of all the problems. I had to give it back because I couldn't get it started. Guyparted it out, at least we were both happy lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premo-s12 Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 dear lord! i thought mid 80's nissans had horrible electrical problems! i keep hearing the same thing from everyone i talk to about this. oh well, not my problem anymore. i sure would of loved to have whooped the crap out of that thing for a good hour or three just out of spite for all the hard times it gave me! lol thanks for the help guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defrag010 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 dang, I'm late on this one... but another +1 for having leaky caps in my ecu and a bad PTU. Had a guy rebuild my ecu for 150$, and a new PTU from the junkyard and my old sputtery talon ran like new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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