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Powerforce harmonic damper install??

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Does anyone know if there is a trick to get these suckers on?

 

I've done about 1/2 hour of searching and I'm still puzzled...

 

They seem to fit MUCH tighter than the OEM ones and I've about had it. I tried the usual stuff...emery cloth, heating the damper, lubricant, etc. and it still won't go on even with a block and rubber mallet (which I HATE to do since it could ruin the bottom end:bonk:)

 

I've installed dampers from 240's 260's and 280zx's and never had this much trouble. I'm finally giving up and buying an installer tomorrow (~$65 from Napa).

 

The frustrating part is that I'd always end up moving the key out of its socket from it sitting too high somehow or not lining up perfectly tapping the damper on.

 

I would turn the crank if I tried to clock the keyway (the tinyest bit) to line it up since the damper has so much interference with the crank, even if the damper was on just a little bit (like 1/8").

 

I did discover a good way to line up the keyway to the key before you start pressing on the damper using a zip tie. The bigger ones are a perfect fit in the keyway width-wise.

 

 

damper_install.jpg

 

 

I hope Napa is open tomorrow on the 4th so I can pick up the installer. I sure hope I don't end up cracking the damper or find out that I messed up the bottom end!!

 

I'm sure someone has installed one of these already...did you need an installer? This is for an '82 L28ET but you'd think they should fit any L-series engine the same.

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Hey, thanks for the Re: Cody...at least I don't feel alone now..hehe

 

Well, the installer at Napa didn't come in the M16x1.5 size so I didn't buy it (luckily I brought the bolt to make sure)

 

I made my own installer using a longer bolt and a few damper washers from the various engines laying around. STILL NO LUCK!! even after a hours of trying I can't get the sucker to line up perfectly.

 

Usually, the key comes out of the circular pocket in the crank right away if the keyway isn't clocked perfect. One time I got it lined up just right, but the key still rotated its way out of the pocket almost 45 degrees and got smashed. Luckily I stopped in time so I didn't crack the damper. I even tried gluing the key in!!

 

I still think the ID of the damper is still too small, it won't rotate on the crank at all.

 

I'll give it another whirl, but if I can't get it then I'm going to an OEM one...bah!!

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Time to get out the calipers and take some measurments before you got bonkers. Make sure the hole is not much smaller than the factory pulley. You dont want to press it on and have to pull the motor to get the pulley off later.

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The damper should slip on with a couple taps of a rubber hammer. Any more force than that, then something is wrong. Don't assume that the damper is correct. I've bought reground cranks that had the end knurled incorrectly. It was impossible to get the chain sprocket on there. I ended up sending it back so they could resize the cranks end to the proper size. I'd call Powerforce.

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I've had the same problem with a couple stock dampeners the key keeps flipping out. Glad I'm not the only one I felt like such an ass when I cracked a pulley. I ended up grinding the key so it was steped (narrower on the top) and took a little of the top and mic-ed the pulley and remmed it.

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Time to get out the calipers and take some measurments before you got bonkers. Make sure the hole is not much smaller than the factory pulley. You dont want to press it on and have to pull the motor to get the pulley off later.

 

Cygnusx, I took your advice and here is what I found:

 

Crank OD = 35.00 mm

280ZX damper ID = 34.99 mm

Powerforce ID = 34.79 mm :fmad:

 

(and yes, I am going bonkers!!)

 

The damper should slip on with a couple taps of a rubber hammer. Any more force than that, then something is wrong. Don't assume that the damper is correct.......I'd call Powerforce.

 

Z-ya, I think you hit the damper on the head!! I can slip my OEM damper on and off all day like butter (by hand) by comparison. I put a spare 280zx damper on with ONE HAND...took me ten seconds. I even pulled it back off (took me two hands & some wiggling) to make sure the key didn't slip out.

 

The damper is 0.20mm (EIGHT thousandths) too small. I probably (stupidly) lost sixteen hours of my life fighting it. I was so stupid because in the instructions they say if the fit is tight, it must be you, because we machine these perfectly...doh!!

 

I like the way the 280zx dampers have a small tapered portion to make sure you're getting it lined up correctly.

 

I'll call powerforce tomorrow and see what they say...:icon45:

 

If they flip me the bird, I guess I'll have to get it enlarged somehow...:hs:

 

I've had the same problem with a couple stock dampeners the key keeps flipping out. Glad I'm not the only one I felt like such an ass when I cracked a pulley...

76s30, I think just about everyone who's ever removed a damper before cracked one trying to get it back on (me and half my Z-buddies)

 

I tell ya, this has been one LONG stressful learning experience for me!!

 

Now back to getting the rest of the engine together by tomorrow for PIR...:mrgreen:

 

ps: I hope the batch that Bubbles is planning doesn't have this problem.:roll:

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Cygnusx, I took your advice and here is what I found:

 

Crank OD = 35.00 mm

280ZX damper ID = 34.99 mm

Powerforce ID = 34.79 mm :fmad:

 

(and yes, I am going bonkers!!)

 

 

 

Z-ya, I think you hit the damper on the head!! I can slip my OEM damper on and off all day like butter (by hand) by comparison. I put a spare 280zx damper on with ONE HAND...took me ten seconds. I even pulled it back off (took me two hands & some wiggling) to make sure the key didn't slip out.

 

The damper is 0.20mm (EIGHT thousandths) too small. I probably (stupidly) lost sixteen hours of my life fighting it. I was so stupid because in the instructions they say if the fit is tight, it must be you, because we machine these perfectly...doh!!

 

I like the way the 280zx dampers have a small tapered portion to make sure you're getting it lined up correctly.

 

I'll call powerforce tomorrow and see what they say...:icon45:

 

If they flip me the bird, I guess I'll have to get it enlarged somehow...:hs:

 

 

76s30, I think just about everyone who's ever removed a damper before cracked one trying to get it back on (me and half my Z-buddies)

 

I tell ya, this has been one LONG stressful learning experience for me!!

 

Now back to getting the rest of the engine together by tomorrow for PIR...:mrgreen:

 

ps: I hope the batch that Bubbles is planning doesn't have this problem.:roll:

 

 

Man that sucks.. Yeah it is something that should be checked out for sure..

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I'll call powerforce tomorrow and see what they say...:icon45:

 

I called Professional Products today and spoke with John. He was really nice and understanding and said they'll replace it if I send it back. Spec ID is 34.95 mm so even with that you'd think it would be hard to turn on the crank snout??

 

The only slightly negative thing they had to say was they never heard of this problem with the L-series dampers, but since I got one of the first batch (sent to MSA) then anything is possible. More importantly they wanted to check mine out if in case there was a problem, they'll sure to know about it.

 

I'm sending it off right now, I just wanted to let you guys know that they stand behind their product and (at least) I'm happy with their customer service! :mrgreen:

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thanks for the heads up!!!

 

ive allready sold a powerforcePLUS (90055) damnper...the SFI rated one...sold it to a guy here that came and picked it up in store...walked out after tax and shipping for $190

 

ive got 4 powerforce (80055) dampners on the way...reserved for Blue (zcar.com) and one for Gabe....

 

once these are run through...i see about ordering more and what i can do...prices went up just a bit (manager said i have to sell a little more expensive) but they are still more than $40 less than MSA (about $72-$75plus shipping)

 

ill let everyone know the ID of the pulleys when they come in!!!

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thanks for the heads up!!!

 

ive allready sold a powerforcePLUS (90055) damnper...the SFI rated one...sold it to a guy here that came and picked it up in store...walked out after tax and shipping for $190

 

ive got 4 powerforce (80055) dampners on the way...reserved for Blue (zcar.com) and one for Gabe....

 

once these are run through...i see about ordering more and what i can do...prices went up just a bit (manager said i have to sell a little more expensive) but they are still more than $40 less than MSA (about $72-$75plus shipping)

 

ill let everyone know the ID of the pulleys when they come in!!!

 

Thanks andrew!!

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Last year I had trouble with a new BHJ-Dynamics racing pulley. After much time trial fitting the pulley only, I found couple high spots on the pulley edge and the crank end. Little very fine emery paper cleaned them up and made for a smooth combination. Cleaned the keyway up with a tiny thin file, and smoothed up the key by using fine emery paper on a hard bench surface and they key fit perfect into the keyway. Once each surface was smoothed and clean to fit, just a gentle tap of the rubber mallet made for a perfect fit then torqued to spec with the bolt and spacer intalled.

 

If the 3 components are too tight it is easy for the key to pop out the back of keyway and when you are tightening and well.... ooooooh what a mess they can make of the pulley, key and keyway; but they are repaireable if not to badley damaged. If it doesn't feel right or look right it probably isn't, remove and start again. Good Luck.

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I had a wonderfull time installing my Powerforce dampner. I used a small

3 stone hone and twisted it back and forth by hand so as not to damage

the tiny keyway groove. It sucked,but it went on and I have had no issues with it. Compare the keyway groove to an OEM and You will see

what I mean.

Yea, I had two ordered with a local machine shop, after 5 weeks after

the expected arrival time I discovered MSA had them and got it 4 days

after placing my order.

 

Russell

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After reading this thread I did a little research and found this on the site of a different mfg. (they do not make anything for L series engines).

 

Our entire range of dampers have been sized for a “tight†or interference fit on to the crankshafts for which they are intended. A loose damper will not function effectively and in time can destroy the key and damage the crank snout.

 

It is important that the installation instructions are followed when installing a damper. The instructions recommend that the damper be heated in boiling water or on the lowest setting of a kitchen oven for 15 minutes, which expands the hub slightly easing installation, prior to fitting to the engine with a professional damper installation tool.

 

As all dampers have been assembled on very close tolerance mandrels it is highly unlikely that the damper is “too tightâ€. Damper bore sizes and tolerances are available if required; however in the event that it appears the damper is too tight, ensure the following procedures are followed:

 

1) Remove the damper carefully using a Professional damper removal tool.

 

2) Clean the crank snout with very fine abrasive paper to ensure no burrs exist.

 

3) Check the bore of the damper to ensure there is no paint residue, if required clean the area with very fine abrasive paper.

 

4) Re check the sizes, particularly the heighth of the crankshaft key as some Aftermarket crankshafts and keys do not meet OEM specs.

 

5) Prior to installation heat the damper in boiling water for 15 minutes or place in a preheated oven at a low temperature (max 250 deg F or 120 deg C) for 15 minutes. Remove from oven with insulated heatproof gloves, oil the crank snout and promptly install using a professional damper installation tool.

 

I hope this information helps out.

 

Dragonfly

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I tried heat,cleaning the crank and after testing with two

OEM pullies,determined that the bore was too small.

I also tapered/chamfered the entry area of the keyway

groove. I still used heat and a homemade installer to install

the pulley.(longer bolt and thick washers)

 

Russell

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...I tried heat,cleaning the crank and after testing with two

OEM pullies,determined that the bore was too small...

 

...Compare the keyway groove to an OEM and You will see

what I mean...

 

Aha! It isn't just me, or mine was already "correct". I also noticed the key BARELY fits in the damper keyway. Did you get a chance to take measurements, or just hand comparison?

 

So it sounds to me like the "tricks" are to chamfer the keyway entrance a bit, hone the bore, heat and an installer.

 

Thanks for the tips and confirmation Russell, I really appreciate it man. :)

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This is some info from BHJ about installing one of their products, but you can see that each manufacture may require different install techniques. I would think any quality balancer shouldn't be hit with a hammer or overheated. I found this a good reminder after reading....

http://www.sccoa.com/faq/bhjdamper.pdf

 

Hey thanks for that info Chino 240Z.

 

The instructions that came with the powerforce only had instructions for domestic engines too. I found it interesting to note that in the BHJ instructions, they say to measure the crank snout and hone the bore of the damper to within 0.001/0.0015" smaller than the crank snout.

 

I wish the powerforce instructions would say this and also list the Nissan OEM specs for the damper ID, keyway width, height and crank snout OD. Their instructions and website only deals with domestic specs...

 

What are the Nissan OEM specs? Does anyone know if the measurements I took are correct? The FSM doesn't list them...

 

0.001/0.015" corresponds to 0.0254/0.0381 mm. I would think that would make the damper spec 34.97 mm + 0.00 / -0.013. To be within tolerance would make the smallest ID 34.96mm, which is about half a thousandth BIGGER than their 34.95 mm nominal.

 

I hope I don't have to explain this to powerforce again today...yesterday they kept saying that my damper bore is within tolerance. I tried to explain that maybe they have their nominal wrong, but tolerance right. They said their nominal is 34.95mm not 34.97...hmm...

 

I'm gonna call them back right now...hopefully they will either give me my damper back or give me a new one (like they said they would do) since mine is slightly boogered up from my botched install...argh!! If I'm really nice, maybe they'll let me upgrade to the 90000 series :rolleyesg

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Maybe for American engines the damper is press fit onto the crank, but not any L series Z I ever worked on. There's a big F'ing bolt you know that holds them together. I've had 20 different factory dampers on 20 different factory cranks. Never needed a hammer or installation tool. The FSM's I have here don't say anything about an installation tool or requirement for same (removal tool yes, install tool no). Me thinks the aftermarket suppliers don't know L Series motors.

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