Jump to content
HybridZ
G.I.jonas

Homemade sbc fuel injection?

Recommended Posts

Well after abandoning my last plan i'm now wanting to go sbc in my 78.I'm thinking ls1 but the budget concious part of me says old sbc.Now what i'm wondering is if anyone can chime in with ideas on how to budget fuel inject an sbc without buying some crazy $2000 kit.What are some things people have done as far as modifying an intake to accept injectors and whatnot,or maybe custom made intakes?.I plan on getting good with tuning and i want to megasquirt whatever engine i decide to go with.So basically i want to hear some ideas covering this topic,not "hey just get an ls1"(which i may do lol),but rather parts and peices put together to work with the big guys at a little guy price.I'm thinking multiport rather than throttle body and if i go v8 i probably will be sticking with n/a.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the least expensive proven options I'm aware of is an LT1 intake conversion... http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=128507

 

Also, consider having a look at the Holley Stealth Ram at around $310 for base and plenum... http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=835917&postcount=4

 

At the rear, its the same height as a TPI manifold, and we know those fit in S30's. Clearance *may* be an issue at the front... might have to get creative :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is what I am building right now. It's a 305 out of a '92 van. It had throttlebody injection. Now it has a super hurricane efi manifold and fuelrail made by professional products. the manifold and rail are less than $300. The throttlebody I got of Ebay. You could also use a modified 4 barrel carb to use as a throttlebody.

IMG_0268 (Small)_thumb.JPG

IMG_0267 (Small)_thumb.JPG

IMG_0269 (Small)_thumb.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Xander, Nice Shed!

 

Megasquirt is a proven driver for most of the GM EFI setups, TBI or TPI, and they fit on the SBC with plenty of cheap aftermarkt parts availability...

My bud is putting an LT1 into his 74 Camaro and tells me there is a program that allows standalone-like reprogramming of the GM ECU via laptop, which seems intriguing as well. He got a deal where a new (18 miles) GM Targetmaster Replacement LT1, and new (18 miles) Goodwrench Trans along with all harnesses and computers out of a Z28 Convertible for $1800. For that price, I'd be interested in SBC as well. Seems the Camaro owner got new engine/trans work done, took it out for it's maiden voyage, and promptly sideswiped a tree 18 miles from the dealer. Had it flatbedded back, and insurance totaled it out. Terrible (he he he).

 

Like Xander said, you can use almost any carb as your air-door initially, and some newer Edlebrock Manifolds come 'pre cast' to drill for injectors in the ports. E-Bay is your friend.

 

Back to my buddy with the 74 Camaro. He ended up picking up the LT1 because it was cheaper than the 383 Chevy buildup he had in progress, and since the 383 was probably going to be too hot for daily driving activities (more for Atco) he started thinking 'man, this car would be nice to drive around daily for stuff, and I want it to act like every other car I own.' Hence jumping on the LT. He would not take my bait and do the LT1 383 like in my Father-in-Law's 92 Camaro. My devilspeak had no effect on him...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

holley sells some very good intakes for the conversion and if your careful a local salvage yard to you could supply many of the other parts,(CPU,wireing,sensors, injectors) fairly cheaply, but Id be surprized if you can get it up and running for under about 1K

 

http://www.holley.com/9901-101-1.asp

medium9901-101-1.jpg

 

 

and yeah there are CONVERSION KITS at $1550

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D534%2D183&N=700+115&autoview=sku

hly-534-183_w.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Factory GM ECMs can be used and tuned, fairly easily.

 

There is a plethora of information on the subject at many corners of the internet. Most notable on www.thirdgen.org, specifically in the DIY PROM forum, along with additional information in ALTERNATIVE PORT EFI INTAKES forum, and ECM/DFI forum.

The most commonly used tuning program is Tuner PRO RT, found at www.tunerpro.net, along with a source for the equipment found at www.moates.net. There are other sources for equipment, but haven't used them, except for my Willems Dual Power Programmer, everything else I use is from moates.net, or home made.

 

There are a number of options when it comes to the type of EFI systems that can be used on an engine using GM parts and/or ECMs. From Speed Density, to MAF based systems. There are many parameters that can be tuned including emmisions based parameters.

 

In my own set-up I am planning to use a '7749 ECM with code $59 (www.code59.org) Code $59, was made from a small group of people that liked the basics of code $58 (GMC Syclone and Typhoon), but wanted to build on it, adding 3 BAR MAP support, over 5 times as many tunable points in the main VE table for more accurate tuning, along with additional controls, that can be used for things like alcohol/water inection, nitrous control, boost control, etc. There are new variables and additions being made on a regular basis to improve on it even more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is still around a thousand bucks, depending on what you pay for the old tpi setup. This is with a stock GM ecu using a Mass airflow sensor type system attached to a holley stealth ram. A chip will more than likely still need to burnt.

 

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0307htp_hollley_stealthram_intake_third_gen_iroc/index.html

 

You can probably get this setup to run without a wideband O2 sensor, but you will not see the full potential without one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xander, Nice Shed!

 

Yeah It's not big but at least I won't have to drive for halve an hour to get there :).

 

For the people that have never seen my workspace. It's a small shed in the back of my garden and it is about 6x6 feet. Great for buidling engines. not so great for stacking all your spare Z-parts :(.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll second the reference to thirdgen. If you'd like a copy of my personal "efi tuning" links, pm me and I'll shoot you a copy. There are quite a few interesting sites out there.

 

The GM systems can be assembled for very little money, though be warned: the learning curve when efi tuning can be steep, and there are other tools required.

 

My current system is a '7730 ecm driving a Holley StealthRam. I've modified it so that I can datalog and tune it "on the fly". See this site when you want to price the tuning hardware/software. I've gone so far as to write my own software, 'cause I'm a Mac guy and there isn't really anything out there that runs on that platform.

 

For a complete system, you're probably talking under $1000, but not by much, and only if you don't spend any unnecessary money. Once you've made the investment, though, with probably a third of that being in tools you can use on any project, you'll be set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's two links to moates.net in this thread already. :D

 

Strotter; What UN do you go by on moates.net and TGO.net?

 

I don't think enough people really find the true potential of the OEM GM EFI systems. I fully agree the learning curve is steep, but I would say it's not much steeper than using any aftermarket system. There's usually more emmisions and fuel economy options with the GM EFI than ANY aftermarket system I've seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Strotter; What UN do you go by on moates.net and TGO.net?

 

I'm "Scott T" over on tgo, haven't posted at moates.

 

I don't think enough people really find the true potential of the OEM GM EFI systems. I fully agree the learning curve is steep, but I would say it's not much steeper than using any aftermarket system. There's usually more emmisions and fuel economy options with the GM EFI than ANY aftermarket system I've seen.

 

Here here. I started from scratch with the f.i. project for the Z - I was intimidated by it, and decided that it was time to dive in. So for me, it was steep. Somebody younger, who grew up with injection systems, would for sure have a much simpler time. Well worth it either way, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iam using a stock tuneport That I got from a local junk yard,complete system wiring harness and ecm for $ 250.00

going on my 83 zx SBC

 

Your picture won't load from your personal computer since it's not public domain. It has to be hosted somewhere. You can upload it for free on this site...

 

Davy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...Now it has a super hurricane efi manifold and fuelrail made by professional products. the manifold and rail are less than $300. The throttlebody I got of Ebay...

 

This is brilliant and is basically what I wanted to do. I didn't know Professional Products was selling their manifolds and rails yet--super!

 

There were three choices I was looking at and none of them are for free:

1) PP manifold (as above) and putting everything else together as time and budget permits. Total price for "everything" $$$$? Guess at $2000-$3000??

2) MassFlo system, totally plug-and-play like the kind that is used on Wayne's R's TTV8 Z car ~$3500 with everything. Pretty sure on that...

3) LT1 (use whole engine, not just efi parts) and use LT1 Edit for software to help with the compatibility for turbo...cost ~$3000-$3500??

 

Wayne's MassFlo w/turbos: attachment.php?attachmentid=4632&d=1198708002

Xander's Professional Products efi manifold:

attachment.php?attachmentid=4722&d=1199864971

 

Nothing is cheap, but cobbling together stock parts that will work with a turbocharged V8 sounds intriguing, if it can be done with minimal frustration. I understand about the learning curve for EFI, turbos and like if you are a carb guy like me. I suppose the LT1 is the fastest/easiest to install, the MassFlo would run nearly equal with that, while the PP sounds like it would be the most work--getting everything after the fact and putting it all together, hoping that the combination of parts works out. But the satisfaction of making it happen that way...Hmmmm. I'm still thinking about this...

 

Davy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
or you can buy a complete fuel injected LQ4 6.0 truck motor for $1200 with harness and computer

 

the 5.3s can be had for $700 or so.

 

Plaese understand that i am aware of all the off the shelf possibilities,however i did title the thread "homemade fi".It does not have to be totally home fabricated but the fact of the matter is - i am never satisfied with using something that is not at least mostly made or modified by me,therefor stock setups on already fuel injected engines will not work for me nor will their programming.

 

Basically i just want to see what people have done in the past to "F.I.ify" their older small blocks.I am somewhat familiar with these engines which is why i want to use one,and the parts availability is absurd.This does not mean that i have settled on it as i am considering an lt1 or if i can ever afford it an ls1 - but this is unlikely as i dont think i can do too much to improve upon what is already there on those engines economicaly.

 

My basic plan is for a 383 with nice aluminum heads and my own custom flexible fuel injection setup.The goal for me is to stay as light as possible and make around 4-450 hp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well once you start doing the math its way easier and cheaper to just buy one of the newer motors... just trying to open other doors that you may not have thought about.

 

with just a cam only in my LS1 im putting out about 500 crank hp. with a 6.0 with just a cam, pushrod, valve spring, timing chain, oil pump change you could have over 500 reliable crank hp.. thats just with stock heads.. with other heads you could do 500 wheel through an auto.

 

as for injection that you speak of.. ive seen guys drill bung holes in aluminum intakes and just poke in 8 injectors, i do not know what they do for spark and telling the injectors when to fire but where there is a will there is a way..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

with just a cam only in my LS1 im putting out about 500 crank hp. with a 6.0 with just a cam, pushrod, valve spring, timing chain, oil pump change you could have over 500 reliable crank hp..

 

Damnit this is what i dont want to hear lol.. Makes it sound so much better to just stop trying to be creative all the time.:icon56:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Damnit this is what i dont want to hear lol.. Makes it sound so much better to just stop trying to be creative all the time.:icon56:

 

I know, if I didn't already have the engine engine that I want to swap into my Z, I would be that much easier convinced to go LSx.

 

I have a couple other engines in mind too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've currently got the holley system commander setup on my motor with a cutler intake/1000CFM TB and 42# injectors. I also have the same system setup on Jim's car. We "may" pull them off and sell them for carb setups, or we "MAY" replace the computer setups with something else like FAST or other setups... Not sure again... I do have an Edlebrock FI intake new in the box with the injector bungs already inplace. This is a perfect DIY intake to build the rest of your system off of... I got it thru Jegs for about $380 and would let it go (New in the box/never installed) for5 $300 shipped.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do have an Edlebrock FI intake new in the box with the injector bungs already inplace. This is a perfect DIY intake to build the rest of your system off of... I got it thru Jegs for about $380 and would let it go (New in the box/never installed) for5 $300 shipped.

 

 

Interesting...for some reason i predict someone else deciding they need that before me,but sweet i'll definately keep that in mind. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×