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SATAN

Short nose R230 and R200 info and why.

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SATAN    10

Ok, there is STILL a lot of confusion on the short nose R200 differentials. These diffs have been out for a long time and there should NOT be anymore confusion. I am going to post up what I know is 100% fact. If I dont know, I will say. There is already a list of what diffs came in what cars. good info however, it is missing important info. Spline count. This is just going to cover the R200 and the R230's in which I know of. I didn't even know the Armada came with a 230, let alone a larger 230 than the TTZ

 

The 90-96 Q45 comes with a VLSD. I'm 99% sure the twin turbo Z also comes with a VLSD.

 

Now why are these two differentials so important? Because they are both have 30 spline input shafts, the R230 is splines are bigger diameter, (see post #14 below). Both are the desirable ones for making bigger power levels. When I say bigger, I mean like 700+ ft/lbs torque. That is big to some but not to others, so... This is a ball park on what they are good for. This ball park has HUGE variables though. If you launch your car and get nothing but wheel hop all over the place, no diff on the planet is going to like you. Generally it is not torque that breaks diffs, or ANY drive train parts for that matter(Yes there's exceptions). IT IS DRIVE LINE SHOCK that jacks things up. You do clutch drop after clutch drop, parts dont like you. You get wheel hop, parts dont like you. When you hear "Clunk" after doing something... that is bad. Respect your drive train and your drive train will respect you.

 

Now, back to the topic at hand. There are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up. The NON TURBO z32 DID NOT come with the R230. IT DOES NOT have the 6 bolt output flanges. It DOES have the same 5 bolt output flanges that most of the short nose R200's use. These come in the Infinity J30, the N/A z32 and later Q45's (97-02)) and as far as I know the 240sx (not as familiar with the 240sx). THESE ARE ALL 29 SPLINE!!!! Yes the 240sx as well, that I do know. The N/A z32 and the 97-02 Q45 DO come with a VLSD, again, it just has the smaller 29 spline with the 5 bolt output shaft. Only some of the 240sx's came with the VLSD, but I cant tell you which ones. As far as I know, any R200 that comes with some form of LSD is 4 pinion. Any open R200 is going to have 2 pinion. Again this is just as far as I know. I know for FACT that the 90-02 Q45 all use 4 pinion. I know for FACT that ALL z32's use 4 pinion.

 

NOW, the 2003 and on q45 (F50) comes with the six bolt equally spaced output flange also BUT I cannot tell you what spline count it has. I would assume it is also 30 spline but I have not pulled one to actually count it. It doesn't really matter though because of the following information that I KNOW is FACT.

 

The F50 Q45 diffs are NOT any kind of LSD. Not VLSD and not CLSD. They are an open diff. On top of that, they are only 2 pinion instead of the 4 pinion. Thats not good for anybody. Take that for what you will.

 

The reason I know this information is because of extensive internet searching. I kept coming across info that said one thing only to find someone else saying something else. The info I stated to be FACT can be backed up with pictures and FSM details.

 

 

Here is a picture of the NON TURBO z32 input shafts VS. the 90-96 Infinity Q45 input shafts. Notice the 5 bolt vs the 6 bolt also. also notice the diameter of the shafts, 29.8mm VS. 30.7mm. I came up with slightly different numbers but over all, it is 1mm difference. I got this picture from nismogab on z31performance.com

inputshaftspec-1.jpg

 

 

Here is what you will see if you look in the Q45 FSM's

90-96 Infinity Q45 R200 short nose. Notice the 4 pinions and 6 bolt along with the viscous coupling, Just like the Twin turbo z32's

q4596.jpg

 

97-02 Infinity Q45 R200 short nose. Notice the 4 pinion, but only 5 bolt, along with the viscous coupling, Just like the NA z32's

q45988.jpg

 

03- dont know how late Infinity Q45 R200 short nose. Notice the two pinion WITH NO viscous coupling! WEAK SAUCE!

q452003.jpg

 

 

I think that is about all I have to say about that.

Edited by BRAAP
Added edit for Q R200 vs R230 output shaft.

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SATAN    10

I have also been finding 2 way LSD's on Ebay that have the 6 bolt equally spaced input flanges. These are coming out of some of the R33 Skyline's. As far as I know it is only the R33 V-spec. Also as far as I know, anything that uses the 6 bolt equally spaced input shafts are 30 spline (Still dont know what it up with that damn armada diff). This info may be good for anyone that wants to run the larger 30 spline, but doesn't want to run the crappy VLSD. They can have the better 2 way carrier instead!

 

Now, I do not know this for 100% fact, so dont get mad at me when you purchase your R33 two way LSD off of someone and your Q45 or your TT input shafts wont fit because they are to big. You need to ask the seller if it is the larger 30 spline before you buy it.

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SATAN    10

I was also just informed that the Nissan Armada front diff uses 1.26" diameter input shafts. This is 32mm for those wondering about metric. That is another 1+mm larger than the Q45 or the twin turbo Z's input shafts.

 

Gear ratio out of the Armada R230 is 2.94. So if you are driving across country at 10000 mph but only want your engine to wind up to 500rpm's, this is the ratio for you LOL. If not, you could most likely swap out ring gears and pinion gear from the TTZ R230.

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Bowtiez    10

After looking at your information and talking to Gabe, I scrapped the idea of using a 2000 Q45 R200 in favor of the bigger R230 from a 90 TT with 80K miles. This has a 9 inch + ring and pinion and 30 Spline axles. The axle nuts, however, are identical to the r200. You don't want to try to lift this diff by yourself! You ought to see the 1302-42 coupler that replaces the Mickey Mouse factory setup. It is a Viscous Limited Slip (tag on diff). I am not sure how well this VLSD will hold up to drags. I

The 2000 Q45 pressed in hubs will not work with Techno Toy's conversion which is built for a 90-96 Q45. Also, the output shafts are five bolts and 29 splines. Gabe sent last model S14 hubs to try which would have worked if I was able to find non turbo 90-96 brakes. Although my motor is only putting out 435HP at the crank, I like that extra margin of insurance and, well, I am already in there. Anyone interested in short nosed R200 in great shape. I saw an Armada yesterday on an oil rack and the size and bolt pattern looked to be an R230.

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Bowtiez    10

Had a little accident moving the R230 with a dolly. One of the corners of collar around the split of the coupler was dented in 1/4 inch. I was told to grind off that corner dent instead of trying to bend it because bending it back might fracture the collar. What do you think?

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SATAN    10
Had a little accident moving the R230 with a dolly. One of the corners of collar around the split of the coupler was dented in 1/4 inch. I was told to grind off that corner dent instead of trying to bend it because bending it back might fracture the collar. What do you think?

 

I am inclined to agree.

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SATAN    10
I have a 89 R32 GT-R CLSD R200 with the 6 bolt even spaced 30 spline inputs.

dcp0136qc4.th.jpg

 

dcp0130ol1.th.jpg

 

That is GREAT information! I saw those pictures while researching but didnt want to draw the wrong conclusions by saying it was 30 spline. I am glad you can confirm that it is 30 spline AND that it is also available in the 89 R32 GT-R. Does that say that it is a 3.79 ratio on there?

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That is GREAT information! I saw those pictures while researching but didnt want to draw the wrong conclusions by saying it was 30 spline. I am glad you can confirm that it is 30 spline AND that it is also available in the 89 R32 GT-R. Does that say that it is a 3.79 ratio on there?

 

 

37/9 = 4:11 :eek:

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mtcookson    0
Gear ratio out of the Armada R230 is 2.94.

 

Exact ratios are 2.937:1 and 3.357:1. We should already know this since it doesn't have an LSD but... the Armada differential is only a 2-pinion (was just looking through all of the Armada FSM's currently available and noticed this).

 

The 2.937 came on the 04-05 SE's and was an option for the LE's. The 3.357 was standard on the LE's.

In 06 and 07 it changed to the 2WD's having the 2.937 and 4WD's having the 3.357.

In 2008 2WD and 4WD SE's came standard with the 2.937 and had the option for the 3.357. The 2WD and 4WD LE's came standard with the 3.357.

 

 

Now... here's a strange deal. Courtesy Parts has it showing that the 2007+ Armada has a 6 bolt flange but with three tabs having two holes per tab. Also, they're saying pretty much all of them had a 3.692 ratio. I'm sure their site is wrong on that as my info above is backed by each year's FSM... but if you happen to go to their site looking to buy the ring and pinion for instance, you may want to call them just to be sure. :2thumbs:

 

Differential diagram - http://www.courtesyparts.com/betasite/armada-ta60-2004-2008/genuine-nissan-parts/power-train/380-rear-final-drive/-c-1063_1064_1128_1144.html

Ring and Pinion - http://www.courtesyparts.com/betasite/kb_search_result.php?keywords=[38100]+ta60&cPath=1063_1064_1128_1144

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SATAN    10

Sorry guys, all my links are broken because I moved some crap around in my photobucket account. I would go and edit it so it works again, but I don't have the ability to do that. These are some of the pictures that are missing. Down side is that you kinda have to figure out where they go now.

 

Here, this should be the same order as I have it listed above.

inputshaftspec-1.jpg

q4596.jpg

q45988.jpg

q452003.jpg

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SATAN    10

Ok, guys, I was wrong... The Q45 output shaft and the R230 output shafts are NOT the same... They have the same SPLINE COUNT, but they are not the same shafts... This pic (Made by OneSickZ) Clearly shows that they are different. Again, same spline count though.

TTQ45Stubsss.jpg

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SATAN    10
I will post my measurements.

The rear I have..."broke" on the starting line last week, is the R230 300ZXTT.

 

1.255 = 31.877 mm

1.572 = 39.9288 mm

1.968 = 49.872 mm

 

Jody

 

 

q45-r230s.jpg

 

You should post up a little bit about the situation that occured when it broke. Was it just brute torque that broke it? Or was it some wheel hop that was happening? Did your LSD not transfer power evenly to both wheels, or did it do it just too late since it is a VLSD? Any info you have to help others out would be great.

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rsicard    11
SATAN: The same DAM thing happens to the 280Z stub axles when used with the CV half shafts and the 300ZXT R200 CLSD. I was one of the few that received a BEEFED up stub axles from MM which should eliminate this happening. The BEEFED stub axles no longer have the abrupt step down to the spline portion of the shaft. It is only a step down enough to be able to slip the bearings onto the shaft. I have a SBC and want to get 500+ Ft/Lbs torque from same transmitted to the R200 CLSD through the Turbo CV half shafts to the BEEFY stub axles to the wheels and tires.

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SATAN    10
SATAN: The same DAM thing happens to the 280Z stub axles when used with the CV half shafts and the 300ZXT R200 CLSD. I was one of the few that received a BEEFED up stub axles from MM which should eliminate this happening. The BEEFED stub axles no longer have the abrupt step down to the spline portion of the shaft. It is only a step down enough to be able to slip the bearings onto the shaft. I have a SBC and want to get 500+ Ft/Lbs torque from same transmitted to the R200 CLSD through the Turbo CV half shafts to the BEEFY stub axles to the wheels and tires.

 

I went with the same kit from MM except for the z31, and ended up having fitment problems. I had Mark Williams make essentially the same thing but stronger. I am hoping the R200 CLSD output shafts/cv shafts will hold inside the diff. I sleeved the axle on the CV shaft with 4130 Cr-Mo pipe, so now I am only concerned about where the CV plugs into the carrier.

 

Axleandaxlestubs006.jpg

Axleandaxlestubs004.jpg

Axleandaxlestubs005.jpg

Picture063.jpg

 

 

Picture013.jpg

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rsicard    11
I went with the same kit from MM except for the z31, and ended up having fitment problems. I had Mark Williams make essentially the same thing but stronger. I am hoping the R200 CLSD output shafts/cv shafts will hold inside the diff. I sleeved the axle on the CV shaft with 4130 Cr-Mo pipe, so now I am only concerned about where the CV plugs into the carrier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SATAN: Did Mark Williams make a set of BEEFY stub axles and inboard CV half shaft mating flanges for you with 5x4.5 wheel stud spacing? What EXACTLY is the issue about of the CV shaft holding in the carrier?

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jbc3    32
You should post up a little bit about the situation that occured when it broke. Was it just brute torque that broke it? Or was it some wheel hop that was happening? Did your LSD not transfer power evenly to both wheels, or did it do it just too late since it is a VLSD? Any info you have to help others out would be great.

 

I have had it at the track over the years quite a bit and never had a known problem with these output shafts. (I never pulled them out to examine them either) Last week the local track re-opened after being closed for a couple of years. They re-paved the track, and had a few test and tunes to get some rubber on the track. The day I went, they poured several layers of VHT and the track was like glue. I have a brand new set of slicks and the guy I lined up against had previous times that were almost identical to my previous times. The burnout was great, no issues. My launch was a WOT, 6000 RPM launch and the car went maybe 1/2" on the launch. I let the clutch out, OK maybe I side stepped it, and all I heard was BAM. That was it. No more excitement. It is the VLSD and it has been fine.

I imagine it was major torque, new slicks, glue track and a "little agressive" launch. I wish I could add more to the learning curve.

 

Jody

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SATAN    10
SATAN: Did Mark Williams make a set of BEEFY stub axles and inboard CV half shaft mating flanges for you with 5x4.5 wheel stud spacing? What EXACTLY is the issue about of the CV shaft holding in the carrier?

 

 

Yes they did. The issue with the CV shaft holding in the carrier is... Paranoia. Ok not really. I know a guy in Puerto Rico who has broken them. Snaps the splines straight off, just like on the stub axles. This is in the standar 29 spline R200 though. He now runs the R230 in his z31. I was under the impression that both the Q45 R200 30 spline and the z32t R230 30 spline were both 30.9mm. According to this thread though, the z32t R230 is still a 30 spline but is 1mm larger in diameter than the Q45 R200 30 spline.

 

Normal R200 = 29 spline and 30mm.

Q45 six bolt R200 = 30 spline and 30.8mm

Z32T R230 = 30 spline and 31.8mm

 

here is what Mark Williams made for me.

Picture006-1.jpg

Picture007-2.jpg

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SATAN    10
Satan: Now there is a sturdy Stub Axle. Yet I had the same strength Stub Axle which works with the 300ZXT R200 CLSD which should withstand 700+ Ft/Lb torque. It was supplied by Modern Motorsports.

 

 

 

Hmm, no pic showed up.

 

Now, don't take this as bashing on Modern Motorsports, because they were very good and fair to me when I had problems with my set for the 300, but...

 

When I was talking with the guys at Mark Williams enterprises, I brought them the Modern Motorsports stub, and said " I need a companion flange for this." They said "Well... No can do. That is a very odd ball spline that is on there. That and a spline that fine should not even be used in drag racing. Not to mention the fact that they are not even hardened."

 

SO, they made me a completely new set (while using the M.M. bearings) That had a more coarse (and more common) spline on it, along with it being through hardened 4140 Cr-Mo, and thread in (not press in) studs. I am confident that MANY other things will break on the car LONG before these even break a sweat.

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unbreakable    10

i just have a quick question, whats the wheel base in the rear of a 280z compared to the z31 and z32? any wider, are the mustache bars different? and if the wheel base is the same why not just swap the rear subframe an all into the 280z, best of both world disc brakes, better rear, so on and so forth. If i am in the wrong thread please direct me to the correct one!

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