Jump to content
HybridZ
JMortensen

If you don't KNOW the answer, don't GUESS

Recommended Posts

JMortensen    235

There has been a recent trend of people outright guessing at answers to others' questions. Many posted questions can be answered with a simple, positively correct answer. If you don't know that answer, just don't post. If you think that you know the answer but you're not sure and nobody else seems to be addressing the issue, then at least post with a caviat, eg "I think that you need x part, but I'm not entirely sure".

 

Chances are that somebody here really does know the correct answer and will post it given enough time. When you post your potentially incorrect guess and don't label it a guess, you make it harder for the person asking the question to determine what is true and what is false, and also for the next person in line to find the correct answer via the search engine.

 

Thanks for your cooperation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Careless    217

I'm going to also comment on the withholding of information that would be readily available at no expense to the person looking for it but is someone who doesn't have time or money to experiment and sweat every detail, or the person who retains the info who has acquired the info at a minimal expense as well.

 

There have been one or two instances that I can remember from the passed where people play the greed game for no benefit of their own, and absolutely no benefit towards other users.

 

Helping each other out in this respect can save time and money for all of us.

 

I can appreciate a secret being held for obvious reasons, but for holding secrets for the sake of holding secrets.... thats too critical and unnecessary anywhere. Especially not in an enthusiasts forum where we're all trying new things and share similar ideas with at least one other individual.

 

It's almost like saying "there's a huge crack in the middle of the road just over one of those hills, you might not see it at any speed, but you'll definitely feel it after you've found it. good luck". Would anyone benefit from people falling into a crack in the road? I mean, getting rid of the in-laws is one thing, but...

 

 

That being said, experience is obviously #1 in acquiring specific information, but lets face it... we can all learn from one another's personal experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
blueovalz    51

I'ts a matter of potentially leading someone off a quick fix path toward a goose chase if the information is bad, or not complete. We (I as well) may not alway provide the most accurate information at some point in our posting history, which makes it a good idea to qualify the post if you're not absolutely sure your fix is "the" answer or solution. Most if not all of us are probably perfectionist in our work, and would desire accurate, experienced solutions to our own problems verses unqualified guesses at what the issue is. In a round table discussion, that works...in this internet medium, it mucks up the repair process because of the lack of immediate feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cygnusx1    12

I know everything. If you don't believe me, just ask me. :ugg:

 

Seriously, never take just ONE source for info without questioning. Read other opinions, other angles, other possible solutions, or heaven forbid, the manual...it's not always obvious. In the end...use your head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bjhines    33

LOL, I have a RULE... I only post info I have PICTURES and HARD-DATA to back up.

 

Jmortensen and I got into a heated debate over the R200 LSD units, and it turns out we were BOTH RIGHT and we BOTH had pics to support our claims. This is the way these rare issues should be resolved.

I started the Wind-Tunnel experiment because I was frustrated over the wild claims by some people over S-30 aero. I needed REAL INFO for my hybrid project.

 

 

Every time I used the "other" sites for info, It always seems that the info was "almost" right.

I got used to the fact that the mods could be accomplished, but the parts-list was going to take a few tries to get right.

 

The short answer folks were leaving out critical information that would have enabled an easy, first-time, fix.

 

BRAKES for example... There must be a dozen variations on the Toyota front caliper mods. There are only one or two that will work on track and have an easy supply of racing pad compounds available. The largest of all the Toyota calipers accept the Z-32 and Subaru WRX pads, which are available on short notice in any compound. The other model Toyota calipers have a much narrower choice of compounds and availability. I know of several track enthusiasts who have ended up with the wrong calipers for their vented rotors. This is as frustrating as it is expensive.

To make matters worse, the folks who suggest the WRONG calipers will argue that they were right all along and the fact that I wanted the USEFUL calipers is "RACE ONLY" and not worth discussion. blaaahahhh....

 

 

I would like to point out that the "Hard-info" we have available is often incomplete or flat out WRONG...

The various wiring diagrams are full of mistakes.

I can point out several major mistakes in the factory microfiche. The "full-color" diagrams available on E-bay are also chock full of mistakes. These mistakes do not seem to crop up very often in discussions, but they are there and they are frustrating. The other problem I have with the wiring diagrams is that they are short-hand versions of reality. If you actually unwrap your harnesses there are dozens of splices and wires that are not on the diagrams. This can make discussions worthless unless someone has actually unwrapped a harness from each model year for reference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chaparral2f    2

I agree with all that has been said. However, I think that some ask rather vague questions. I am probably guilty of this myself. I feel that many do not try to figure what to do, but ask inane questions because it is more convenient to have someone else solve a problem than to figure it out them selves. I guess what I am trying to say is there should be three steps: First is hands on (test that switch,/ inspect those half shafts). Second, get out the manual and research on your own. Third, when you are at wits end SEARCH the archives then post your question.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, don't answer questions about a vehicle that you don't have any experience with. For instance I admit to knowing almost nothing about Zs except the Z31. So I try not to post answers to problems other than those I have had experience with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Careless    217
I agree with all that has been said. However, I think that some ask rather vague questions.

 

Hey, I see no problem in admitting when you don't know where to start with something. I think that's where most vague questions come from, lack of a starting point, or knowledge of where would be.

 

That's why I think giving a detailed post about the situation and the "problem" are both imperative to getting the answers or the proper direction you are looking for.

 

BTW, since I fully agree with bjhines....

 

:worthless:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tony D    143

"If you actually unwrap your harnesses there are dozens of splices and wires that are not on the diagrams."

 

Oh gawd yes! It's downright scary!

 

I have made this suggestion in frustration at other places as well. It's not that hard. Or you would think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
woldson    11

Is it me or is this setting up too many "catch 22"?

Don't post till you search.

Ask a well educated question.

Don't attempt to answer untill you absolutely sure.

 

Since the data base has most answers, the new kids showing intrest in these classic cars are kinda left in a quandary.

The only people left feeling confident to post will be a bunch of old crustys. ;)

This may however decrease the amount the cars are going for??!!

"I'am so cold" "you can't be insane if you know you are".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMortensen    235

It's not about keeping people from posting. It's about keeping the information clean.

 

We're not saying don't ask questions, we're saying search before you ask questions and don't ask redundant ones. We're not saying don't answer questions, we're saying don't GUESS, and especially don't make it sound like you're not guessing. There are still plenty of opportunities for younger or less experienced members to jump in and participate without being redundant or passing bad information.

 

We have not done it all or seen it all, and there are plenty of questions to ask and answers to give.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
280Z Turbo    10
The short answer folks were leaving out critical information that would have enabled an easy, first-time, fix.

 

BRAKES for example... There must be a dozen variations on the Toyota front caliper mods. There are only one or two that will work on track and have an easy supply of racing pad compounds available. The largest of all the Toyota calipers accept the Z-32 and Subaru WRX pads, which are available on short notice in any compound. The other model Toyota calipers have a much narrower choice of compounds and availability. I know of several track enthusiasts who have ended up with the wrong calipers for their vented rotors. This is as frustrating as it is expensive.

To make matters worse, the folks who suggest the WRONG calipers will argue that they were right all along and the fact that I wanted the USEFUL calipers is "RACE ONLY" and not worth discussion. blaaahahhh....

 

 

Okay, this is a bit off-topic but still somewhat related.

 

S12+8 calipers are not "wrong". Many people have reported having to run weak-ass pads in front and race pads in the rear because the 240SX rear calipers can't balance out the big S12W "useful" calipers effectively. Some have even wanted to install a prop valve in the front (not safe at all!).

 

I had absolutely no trouble getting good pads for S12+8 from Porterfield. Also, it appears that 2nd gen RX-7 pads MAY also work with these calipers, but I haven't tried it yet.

 

I've often thought that the unvented Toyota caliper swap was a waste of time and money and would make the car stop worse than before. However, I was just reading the other day that some have found that the brakes are easier to modulate and are more fade resistant with the larger calipers and pads.

 

You have the same situation with 60 mm TB's, aftermarket intakes, rear disc swaps, 4 barrel carb swaps, injector placement, Rust-oleum paint jobs, etc. etc. Some people say they like them, others say it doesn't work.

 

Getting back on topic, it seems that often people have different experiences, setups, climates, driving styles, needs, and budgets and what may be "wrong" in one person's experience is right for another. There are always pluses and minuses to every option, and I think Hybrid Z is about discussing those rather than saying "this swap/mod is stupid and useless".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mikelly    115

With regards to witholding information, There is simply no way we can enforce that one. If someone has a tidbit of info they choose to share, then great... But expecting people to come forth and share info unwillingly is unreaslistic.

 

The main goal to remember here gang is that years from now someone will pull this data up and reference it in their potential build. We are trying to insure that long after some of us have left the Zcar scene, that the data is still accurate and useful.

 

So if you don't "KNOW" for a fact that the info you're posting is 110% accurate, either state it, or don't post.

 

Simple enough?

 

280Z Turbo, you hit the nail on the head. Everyone is working from different experience levels. Some folks have deep pockets and vast depths of experience. Others have none of either. It really is a give and take environment, which is why we're fairly hard on n00bs and searching.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Careless    217
With regards to witholding information, There is simply no way we can enforce that one. If someone has a tidbit of info they choose to share, then great... But expecting people to come forth and share info unwillingly is unreaslistic.

 

 

I realize that fully. But what I was trying to get at is the fact that we're all here to help, and sometimes I find some people are greedy in nature and tend to have pertinent information and withhold it even though it's not going to be any sweat off their backs. I mean, it's sorta like "been there, done that".

 

A bit of direction never hurt no body!

What I; as a faithful user, devotee, and paying supporter of hybridz would like from others on this community is some devotion to helping out a fellow comrade along the way, even if it's just something small... like a part number or a price. And I do see that. Which is great! But I also see some hesistation for reasons unknown... And I'm trying not to judge, but sometimes it's just fishy.

 

I mean, we're all capable of helping out... I'm sure many other people are capable of doing things in the same capacity as most everyone. And I'd generally like to see it happen. I love when I come across solutions to things that I know I will run into in the future of my build.

 

As a personal example: I found that nissan stanza power window motors may just be the answer for us S30 guys, and that prompted about 3 or 4 other examples of how to make it work- thus widening the database of possible solutions to a small issue/problem people have with their manual windows. I'd like to make this post an encouragement to people who know some things that could solve a LOT of searching for people, such as the above.

 

I don't think that's asking too much of the Z guys! There are a bunch of amazing projects on here, someone's gotta have a trick they wouldn't mind sharing and gloating about :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clifton    0

Jon, this is a great idea and even better that it is posted by a mod. It will be easier to quote this to the offender that coming across rude to them.

 

As far as keeping info. I don't know how this will be POLICED. I usually post if I can to help with those that need it, often with a pic if it will help. My PM box is always full of questions. But there are a few things that I will keep to my self. I know of others that do it too, it's part of life. Doesn't mean we/they aren't more than helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hughdogz    12

This is a really interesting thread (the S12 part wasn't a bad aside either).

 

I agree with a lot of what has been said here (and in other threads before). HBZ is a give-and-take atmosphere.

 

My approach is to help others the best I can, and never make an educated guess without saying you're guessing. At any point, you can only help others that know less than you already do. At the same time, you want to avoid spoon-feeding if it's either obvious that they didn't search at all, or if they are mostly takers and don't give back. I figure if I have a question, I don't feel as bad asking for advice when I know I've done my part in helping others that aren't as savvy yet. If everyone took this approach, we would learn more is less time (in a perfect world) and the takers would have to learn the hard way either through experience (like others before them) or hardcore searching.

 

However, I see nothing wrong with people who choose not to share some choice info. Especially if that information was gained at high expense in either time & money or both.

 

I might be totally off base here, but I think that information is analogous to a part. Just because you upgraded doesn't mean that the old part still isn't worth anything to you. It's almost the same with information...

 

There are some old parts that I would be happy to give away, but others may be worth a lot more to me and I would have a hard time just giving it away This is especially true if it was someone who couldn't fully appreciate the effort expended to gain it since to them it was "free"

 

...I hope you guys will still answer my posts after reading this. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Careless    217

However, I see nothing wrong with people who choose not to share some choice info. Especially if that information was gained at high expense in either time & money or both.

 

I understand where you're going.

 

As for my original post, I didn't mean to say that we deserve the info. I'm just HOPING that those out there that are trolling the boards and have some good information, and gather good information FROM HZ would either register or actually post something if they feel they've been helped by this site , or a person in particular, at one point in time. (part of the reason why we donated, right?).

 

A couple of times I've seen a post sound pretty sour for reasons I can't explain or understand. What I'm trying to say is that saying nothing is better than saying something without substance... you know... along the lines of say.... "nah-nah nuh boo-boo!", perhaps. LOL

 

I used to work at a shop as a co-op student once. And the owner's brother was such an ass-crevice. He always said "move, you're doing it wrong". Every time. He wouldn't however, tell me HOW to do it right. Instead he wouldn't even show me, he'd just make me hold whatever he was doing until he finished doing my work. Even if it was for something small, he wouldn't offer a bit of info to let me know what I was doing wrong. I think that's pretty selfish. I'm just hoping ppl don't do that on HZ 'cause we're all just lookin for advice and support, realistically.

No one if being forced, but a little goes a long way...!

At least that's my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tony D    143

One of the biggest problems on 'witheld' information is not from people on this forum. It's in the general industry where people simply don't talk to one another.

On an obsolete engine like the L-Gata, there is loads of information that has been learned, forgotten, and then relearned by someone else.

 

Read some of the Racer Brown Camshaft Articles from the early 70's, then realize that Ron Iskendarian relearned it in the mid 80's, and now Sunbelt is taking similar strides again.

 

The biggest thing about people thinking they have 'special proprietary information' is that they simply don't know enough about who has done what in the past...

 

There were single digit Z-Cars in Japan in the early 80's running carbs and distributors. Where did all that knowledge go? There was no easy way to 'share it'.

 

Chances are very great, it's been done by someone else, and simply forgotten, or discarded as old news when the next generation of engines came along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×