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Mikelly

R230 Install....Tech info for those interested...

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Heh, now if there was jus tsomeone around who could documen this with pics and maybe someone who was helping to sell "kits" icon_biggrin.gif Guess I'll break my U's first! Would we be able to use Scottie's adapters with this? I'm thinking maybe...?

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Why is it we cant ever find that "Someone"; I know they are around-we just seem to keep missing them...or maybe we ticked them off in traffic & they just arent talking to us anymore?

 

Thanks for the info; we definately need that "special someone" to document this w/pictures in a step/by step scenario.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

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Guest Anonymous

Ray,

Yes I used the inner CV joints. It was about 2am when I was writing this. When I get my rear control arms from Mike Kelly I'll be glad to take some pics of the rear when it is apart and as it goes back together. Mark

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Thanks,

 

How thick of a plate did you use for the adapters and how much did you have the shafts shortened??? Has the shaft not being retained laterally caused any problems... You explained how you did this a while back but it didn't make sence till I got it home and started looking at it... The CV's are huge !!!!!

 

I pulled the hubs and all the brakes while I was at it (got them for free) The hubs just bolt in and they are a really beefy double bearing design...

 

Thinking out loud....

Anyone cut and welded on the stock Datsun upright ???? If I do it properly I could weld in a machined flat plat and bolt the hub to it. This would solve alot of the backspacing problems and all but eliminate the stub axel problem...

 

 

BTW I have a friend who was just over and he loved the Q45 rear suspension. He comented that he thought it could be easilly adapted to any rear wheel drive car and was taking measurements to see if it would fit in his Chevelle... It all goes in with 4 subframe mounts and then the struts which could be converted to coil overs in a large car...more food for thought...

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If you are talking about the cast steel (it might even be forged) bottom of the strut as the upright, then yes, I've welded on it very successfully. I must be a good quality of steel because it welds up just like plain old steel plate. I tried this on some American stuff years ago and it did not work (cast iron), but the Datsun bottoms weld very well.

 

Terry icon_smile.gif

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I may just for fun give it a try... Once I am done...

 

I am still going to do it Mark's way at first just to make it easy... Two concentric circles on steel plate wih some holes I can do that...

 

BTW how much does it cost to have axels shortened ???

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Mark asked me to post this info:

 

The R230 is from the Q45 ro the tt300Z. I'm think there are some some

differences in the cases but they are pretty similar. I used and R-200

mustache bar. The original holes were welded up and new ones drilles

for the new bolt pattern on the R230 cover. You will need one of those

aluminum braces Dave sells to use this cover. It is a very nice piece

and Dave will take care of you. He seems to be an honest guy trying to

make a nice part. The new holes were drilled about a quarter inch

higher than the original holes to allow room for the out put flanges to

clear the rear control arms.

 

To mount the front of the diff, I removed the safty strap and the

brackets it mounted to. A mount was welded up from scrap I had laying

around that bolts in the holes that the safty strap bracket bolted to. This

bracket runs under the front of the R230 and uses the stock mounting

holes in the R230. I used some half inch (diameter not length) bolts to

bolt the front of the R230 to my bracket. This basically repalces the

safty strap and the stock Z differential mount.

 

Mike Kelly

For a drive shaft, I used the Q45 shaft and had it shortend and the front converted to mate with GM stuff. This shaft has a much larger diameter than the stock Z shaft or the new Fbody drive shaft I had.

 

Now for the fun part. The CV's from the Q45 and tt300z are the same part. The shafts are the same only the Q's are longer. I used two outer CV's on the shortened shaft and an adaptor plate to mount the CV bolt pattern to the flange on the stub axel. The adaptor plates are a doughnut with two bolt patterns, one for the cv and one for the stub axel

flange. I had the shafts shortened and resplined by moser engineering. www.moserengineering.com I think.

 

The costs are not cheap to do this. Diff is at least 400, shafts are around 100 each used, need four of these. Need to have the adaptors made, mine about 200. Shafts shortened and resplined were less than 100

for the pair I think. R200 mustache bar, cheap, new bushing, cheap.

Lots of time!

 

Some other details, the height of the fabricated mount, the part that

goes under the front of the R230 is about the same level as the bolt holes. The drive shaft angle can be adjusted by shimming between the front mount and the diff. icon_razz.gif

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I have an r230 out of a Q45 here and the half shafts. Did he use 4 of the inner CV's ??? I dont see how he could use 4 of the outers??? The Q45 I got my stuff out of had a conventional CV on the outer that bolted through the hub like a front driver. The iner is a bolt up flange, is it possible some are different... Mark????

 

BTW I got the whole thing, shafts, diff, hubs, and brakes for 200$ look arround Q45's arn't real popular and I have seen at least 10 and all still had the rear in them... You just have to deal and be patient...

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Here is my question. Why would you go through all the trouble and expense to install an R230 that has the normal 3.7 gear. I picked up my 3.7 Viscous LSD for cheap and had the shafts modded to fit using all OEM stuff for about $90 per shaft and that included the rebuild. I do not have even $450 in the whole setup and I will drive to your house and shake your hand if you can break this diff. I can understand if you wanted to use the R200VLSD from a 300zx N/A because of its 4.09 gear and wide availability, but what gives with spending $1000 for a swap that seemingly gives no extra advantages?

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Guest Anonymous

Ray,

I like your Idea about using welding the Q stuff to the Z stugg. Let me know if it works. The shafts were Less than 100 to have shortened and resplined. I'll measure length when I do rear control arms and post some pics also. Yes I have had problems with the hsaft floating on both sides. I'm currently ahving a piece mackined to fix this. I'll post some pics on this also. The adaptor plates are about 3/8 in I believe. Mark

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240 Turbo

The Q45's have a 3.54 gear, The main reason for the r230 is I have had no luck finding a r200 lsd or vsd.. that wasn't expensive. I also love the shear size of the r230. I tend to want to build things that won't break, ever. If the factory will put it behind a 300+hp turbo car and warrenty it, it will live forever in what we do. As for the R200 after talking to Myron about what happens when the shafts and or the carrier brakes, I will spend the extra time to make this work. BTW r230's are alot more plentiful than vsd or lsd r200's. That is why everyone is trying to make this swap work. Later Ray

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Guest needwaymorespeed

Piece of mind sums it all up!! ray I thoght about doing that same thing with the stock upright but was advised that it would have a high possibility of breaking.

im making complete new uprights-or hub carriers or rear spindles-the part that the strut is welded too and the stub axles goes through right now.

I am real excited to complete this as I feel the stock rear end in high horsepower apps is the weak link in our cars

 

Curtis

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Yup, Not everyone is as lucky as those of us who have found the rare LSD units... I'm upgrading mine to CV's although I had ZERO failures with my regular half shafts pushing 500+HP all last summer and I hammered that car hard... But piece of mind is worth something...I hear those Q45s are bomb proof. What I really need is shorter gearing to boost my RPMS to a usable range with my trans/cam shaft combo... 6th gear is useless for me below 2000RPMs...

 

Oh well, back to work...

Mike icon_rolleyes.gif

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I can understand half the argument when it comes to gear ratios, but not piece of mind. Do you know someone who has nuked an R200VLSD please let me know. As far as saying, "I can't find one!" I can go to my local wrecking yard and ask him to locate a diff from an 88 300zx turbo SE model and he can do it with no problem. Any decent yard can do the same and have you a diff in a couple of days. Hell, the guy in Orlando was running the clutch LSD unit and running 140+mph in the 1/4. That is atleast 700hp. I'm not trying to knock the swap and for those that need the gearing I can see it being a valid thing to do as you won't find an R200 LSD unit in the wrecking yard with a 3.55 gear. Hell, I bought a 4.09 VLSD from a 93 n/a 300zx for $150 in hopes of swapping it into my setup, but will keep my 3.70 until I am able to lock my tranny in 3rd gear and then I will make the swap. Anyway, some pics of the swap would be cool and I am interested to see how hard it actually is. As for the shafts, have you tried crossing them in the books to other comperable shafts that have the correct spline and shaft length. That is how I found the AMC Eagle 6cyl front shaft was the answer for making the VLSD swap work in my 240z. OEM, available and cheap!

Here is a pic: http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/3liter/pics/driveline/shaft2.jpg

VLSD inner

AMC eagle shaft

280zx Turbo outer

direct boltup on drivers side and had to machine a .5" spacer on the passenger side as the shaft was just slightly too short.

Here is a pic of the spacer when it was 1" thick. Ended up being too thich and compressing the shaft allowing the tripod to have some play. http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/3liter/pics/newerpics/pscv.jpg

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Guest needwaymorespeed

I dont argue that a r200 is strong,but the problem is you are still stuck with u-joint halfshafts and a small stub axle.

yes you can upgrade the half shafts to cv shafts and buy an adapter or make one at the wheel side but by the time you spend all this money youre money ahead with the r230 setup and you dont have to worry about those stub axles.

Jim biondo spent big bucks retrofitting a corvette stub axle onto his car due to breakage issues.

The only down fall to a r230 situp would be the increased horsepower it takes to turn the bigger ring and pinion and larger halfshafts.

Take a look at the physical size of the r230 situp and compare it to other stout rearends-its bulletproof.

big cvs

more spline on the cv outboard shaft than the 9 inch ford axles

bigger R&P then a ford 9 inch

PEACE OF MIND!!!!!

 

Curtis

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Guest Anonymous

Curtis,

How close are you to using the outer stock Q cv. Please post some pics when it is done or a how to. This would be a great conversion if the outer cv could be used instead of the stub axel. Mark

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Guest Fast Frog

Mike! I thot you were a management type who spent 60 hrs a week on the job with lots of hi level meetings and at home reading!! Plus, courting you're your soon to be bride! How do you find time to concoct all of these automotive improvements??? Do you change clothes in the phone booth occassionally or wear a red cape?? icon_biggrin.gif

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I'm busy as a one armed paper hanger at times... Hell last night the "Soon to be" MRs. Kelly had me unloading a truck load of fill dirt for her flower bed, and then dredging the drainage ditch behind our property to ensure proper flow of the marshy area... this weekend I'll be finishing my privacy fence finally (Started it last fall) and getting another dump truck full of dirt delivered for the flower beds in the back yard.. Busy Busy...and did I mention I have 3 full sets of TC Rods complete and ready to shipp out as soon as the control arm parts arrive and are assembled????

 

However, this whole Harry home-owner thing is really eating into my project reserection...

 

Mike icon_rolleyes.gif

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Guest needwaymorespeed

Mark ill keep everyone posted on the conversion-unfortunatley its going kond of slow, new baby on the way yard work yada yada yada

Curtis

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I guess the R230 swap interests me mostly because of th gearing, added strength, and availability of the diffs at decent prices. Yeah, the VLSD you mentioned from the SE is available but until you posted the info above about the spacer and linked the new pics I wasn't aware of that information. I'd read your page in the past but it never seemed that the swap was done or that all the part numbers had been listed out yet. Once the info gets around the SE diffs will dry up fast too!

 

Not all of us have access to books for finding parts that will interchange and most o****er guys won't go that extra mile unless your buds with them. When folks like yourself figure something out like this it's a BIG help! For dummies like me please take lot's of pics, list all the parts, and give us as much step by step as possible. Hell, I'll host the pics if that's what's needed. The R200 clutch LSD swap is pretty simple and I still had some trouble getting the mount in here! I'm actually not a complete idiot but the Datsun is new to me icon_smile.gif The more detail that's provided the more likely we are to try it ourselves and come up with improvements and lessons learned. Heck, I've not even moved up to CVs yet on my car because it's more trouble than the stock style Us. When it breaks I'll upgrade for sure but not just yet.

 

Heck, I'm hoping the 3.7 ratio works for me but if it doesn't an R230 will certainly be an option. I'm tempted to get one just to examine and tinker with - they apparently aren't hard to find or very expensive (shrug). Considering clutch LSDs go for as much as $500 these days figuring out how to use a less expensive diff would help lot's of people be it R230 or R200...

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